SFO parallel approach
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SFO parallel approach
Is this real or has this shot been enhanced ? 
Photos: Airbus A319-112 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Photos: Airbus A319-112 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Qantas 747-400 (VH-OEI) is seen going around, climbing past us in the A319. We were performing a parallel ("side-by") approach to Runway 28 in San Francisco (SFO) when apparently the heavy couldn't stay behind us and had to go around. It was the most spectacular thing I have ever seen from inside an airplane!
Last edited by Optimus-Prime; 4th Jun 2009 at 13:17.
Although parallels are close ar SFO (I've done it and got the t-shirt) I believe they are supposed to be staggered. This photo is slightly enhanced by the zoom factor. Nice though.
It's real, though the lens has compressed it a bit. It's a tad alarming the first time you see it and it looks and feels a bit more comfortable if you're flying the bigger beast..
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I can believe it, having been there and landed simultaneously on 28R in a 747-400 with another (can't remember what type) landing on 28L quite a few years ago.
It happened due to us catching up the other aircraft due to differential approach speeds. It was serious cavok conditions, but I still, to this day, wonder if continuing was the correct decision
It happened due to us catching up the other aircraft due to differential approach speeds. It was serious cavok conditions, but I still, to this day, wonder if continuing was the correct decision
Here the criteria for all types parallel approaches: as you see from the numbers it can seem tight---tight. I heard that the after ldg the greatest danger is taxiing to the ramp
SFO:
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...5LDAPRM28R.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...5IPRM28L_C.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...5LDAPRM28R.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...DAPRM28R_C.PDF
Simultaneous Parallel ILS Approaches
ILS PRM Approaches
(Simultaneous Close Parallel)
[I ILS PRM Approaches
(Simultaneous Close Parallel)
g[/IMG]Parallel ILS Approaches
ILS PRM Approaches
(Simultaneous Close Parallel)
SFO:
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...5LDAPRM28R.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...5IPRM28L_C.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...5LDAPRM28R.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...DAPRM28R_C.PDF
Simultaneous Parallel ILS Approaches
ILS PRM Approaches(Simultaneous Close Parallel)
[I ILS PRM Approaches
(Simultaneous Close Parallel)
g[/IMG]Parallel ILS ApproachesFIG 5-4-16
Staggered ILS ApproachesILS PRM Approaches
(Simultaneous Close Parallel)
Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 27th Nov 2007 at 17:04.
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Sure, I've flown them dead-even into SFO. Another QX CRJ and mine were side by side on the most recent. I was able to easily recognize the captain of the other plane.
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It's not as close as it appears. As long as you "keep them in sight"
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An interesting topic.
I, as a BA 744 driver, go to SFO fairly often and have seen most approaches. SFO has been one of the most problematic destinations in recent years for the fleet due to ATC expecting or requesting us to perform in a similar way to a 737/CRJ. It just can't be done so high energy approaches are more frequent.
Back to the original point, I have been on a parallel approach with an EVA 744, the most incredible experience I have had during my time on 744. We touched down within a few seconds, just wish someone had got the photo!
For the record, we often accept visual approaches, I'm not aware of any restriction. We do, however, request a 10 mile final. Most approaches in US finish up being visual approaches - just the nature of the beast!
I, as a BA 744 driver, go to SFO fairly often and have seen most approaches. SFO has been one of the most problematic destinations in recent years for the fleet due to ATC expecting or requesting us to perform in a similar way to a 737/CRJ. It just can't be done so high energy approaches are more frequent.
Back to the original point, I have been on a parallel approach with an EVA 744, the most incredible experience I have had during my time on 744. We touched down within a few seconds, just wish someone had got the photo!
For the record, we often accept visual approaches, I'm not aware of any restriction. We do, however, request a 10 mile final. Most approaches in US finish up being visual approaches - just the nature of the beast!
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I can believe it, having been there and landed simultaneously on 28R in a 747-400 with another (can't remember what type) landing on 28L quite a few years ago.
It happened due to us catching up the other aircraft due to differential approach speeds. It was serious cavok conditions, but I still, to this day, wonder if continuing was the correct decision
It happened due to us catching up the other aircraft due to differential approach speeds. It was serious cavok conditions, but I still, to this day, wonder if continuing was the correct decision
And for those commenting, the compression effect is small. SFO is a very tight, very flawed system. Just look at the airport diagram.
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While the lens makes this a heckuva picture, SFO is really like this...really.
While in recent years the concept of side by side has gone away, stagger by approaches are in vogue.
the real danger is when two planes are being vectored to their respective VISUAL finals and go "belly up" to each other.
From one side (the south) you turn left to intercept 28 left final...going belly up to a plane from the north turning right to intercept the 28 right final. At this moment their is some danger if someone overshoots.
I've flown into SFO with three different small airlines and one very big one.
This happens to allow sequencing of departures off the "ones" (one left and right). It is all an effort to do MORE with an airport that has runways that are too close together and has too many flights.
Except for the fog, SFO usually has nice wx...
BUT really watch out when you have english as a second language foreign carriers...just be careful.
While in recent years the concept of side by side has gone away, stagger by approaches are in vogue.
the real danger is when two planes are being vectored to their respective VISUAL finals and go "belly up" to each other.
From one side (the south) you turn left to intercept 28 left final...going belly up to a plane from the north turning right to intercept the 28 right final. At this moment their is some danger if someone overshoots.
I've flown into SFO with three different small airlines and one very big one.
This happens to allow sequencing of departures off the "ones" (one left and right). It is all an effort to do MORE with an airport that has runways that are too close together and has too many flights.
Except for the fog, SFO usually has nice wx...
BUT really watch out when you have english as a second language foreign carriers...just be careful.
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FWIW from SLF, I recall coming into SFO a while back on the right runway, and the pilot announced that if we looked left we would see the sister ship right beside us approaching the left one, sho nuf. COOL!
I'm not a pilot but, prior to 9/11, I had the privilege of riding the approach to SFO twice in a cockpit. On one occasion we did a parallel approach as shown in the picture.
The second occasion they were doing staggered approaches to the 28s because of the wind. The "normal" operation at SFO seems to use parallel approaches to the 28s with interlaced departures on the 1s - two aircraft land on 28 followed by departures from 1 then two arrivals on 28 etc. On this occasion the wind did not permit the use of 1 so as we landed (on 28L) there was a 727 departing 28R. In its' way this felt even more interesting than the "norm" because the space between the runways is very limited - just space for one aircraft.
If you drive down the 101 Bayshore Freeway from SFO towards San Jose you very soon come to Coyote Point. It's a park (small fee) and you can sit and watch the approaches and see the departures in the distance - it's instructive.
I was once told a story by a 747 senior FO who was operating with a new Captain (new to the rank, new to the aircraft). The FO warned the captain to slow down early as they came down from Point Reyes over the city to cross the airport at 10000 ft. Unfortunately they didn't manage to get rid of the speed early enough which led to a 360 spiral to loose the altitude - didn't make ATC happy. Remember that was 2nd hand so I can't verify it.
The second occasion they were doing staggered approaches to the 28s because of the wind. The "normal" operation at SFO seems to use parallel approaches to the 28s with interlaced departures on the 1s - two aircraft land on 28 followed by departures from 1 then two arrivals on 28 etc. On this occasion the wind did not permit the use of 1 so as we landed (on 28L) there was a 727 departing 28R. In its' way this felt even more interesting than the "norm" because the space between the runways is very limited - just space for one aircraft.
If you drive down the 101 Bayshore Freeway from SFO towards San Jose you very soon come to Coyote Point. It's a park (small fee) and you can sit and watch the approaches and see the departures in the distance - it's instructive.
I was once told a story by a 747 senior FO who was operating with a new Captain (new to the rank, new to the aircraft). The FO warned the captain to slow down early as they came down from Point Reyes over the city to cross the airport at 10000 ft. Unfortunately they didn't manage to get rid of the speed early enough which led to a 360 spiral to loose the altitude - didn't make ATC happy. Remember that was 2nd hand so I can't verify it.
As a PPL I've never flown *into* SFO but I often fly overhead/alongside en route back to my base at Palo Alto (the tiny scrap of a runway that the pros might spot if they look very carefully around where they line up on final). Side-by-side and staggered approaches are both pretty common, I see them all the time.
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If you're interested I suggest you all obtain (and watch) the ITVV Virgin 747 LHR-SFO Video/DVD.
A visual into RWY28L is flown with a united 757 parrallel on 28R.
ATC clearly state to 'maintain visual seperation from that A/C, and DO NOT OVERTAKE'. They fly it with TCAS set at TA only to avoid any resolutions.
The a/c touch down simutaneously, and it is a very good insite into parrallel operations - although it is obviously no big deal to the crew.
Cheers all..
A visual into RWY28L is flown with a united 757 parrallel on 28R.
ATC clearly state to 'maintain visual seperation from that A/C, and DO NOT OVERTAKE'. They fly it with TCAS set at TA only to avoid any resolutions.
The a/c touch down simutaneously, and it is a very good insite into parrallel operations - although it is obviously no big deal to the crew.
Cheers all..
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If you're SLF with a fairly good idea of separations, and you find yourself down the back of VS19 having done your best to impress your companion with the details of how all this flying stuff works, and she points out of the window on approach to SFO and says "Why's that so close, then?", and you've never actually flown a parallel approach before, and for a good few minutes all that happens is that the other a/c gently drifts towards you... well, you learn to keep your mouth shut.
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In happier times, I too used to enliven my monthly commute to SFO by riding up front on Speedbird 287/5 into SFO (my company does stuff for Boeing and my son works for NATS so the BA folks made me welcome).
For me the fun bit of the approach was descending on the glideslope to 28L/R while aircraft on 1L and 1R were given clear take-off across our bows. Incidentally, as I recall, there is only an ILS on 28L, an ILS 28R approach being flown as an offset to 28L.
Also, parallel visual approaches were commonly flown by BA then.
SFO rapidly gets congested if the weather closes in, as only 28L can then remain open for ILS landings, as I recall. Diversions to Oakland and SJC rapidly follow.
For me the fun bit of the approach was descending on the glideslope to 28L/R while aircraft on 1L and 1R were given clear take-off across our bows. Incidentally, as I recall, there is only an ILS on 28L, an ILS 28R approach being flown as an offset to 28L.
Also, parallel visual approaches were commonly flown by BA then.
SFO rapidly gets congested if the weather closes in, as only 28L can then remain open for ILS landings, as I recall. Diversions to Oakland and SJC rapidly follow.