mytravel pilot loses appeal
From way back at the beginning:
I wrote:"doing something like that in the US is actually a violation of federal law...and you could lose your license, pay fines or go to jail---definitely lose your carreer--- "
and OilHead wrote:
True, but he was not in the US so what is your point?
My Point was that depending on your home country's air/crimal laws he could have had far greater consequences heaped upon him, or far less as the case maybe.???
I was trying to point out that he has his most important asset his license and his freedom---He has the chance to move on with his life as a pilot--- this gentleman sounds like a talented aviator reading some of the writings in the military aviation part of Pprune---I hope that he should find a very happy setting that better suits his ways---I wish that for us all however
Although the details are very sketchy in my mind---
---remember the case of the NWA captain who was sacked, imprisoned and fined for being intoxicated while on duty?
He was later allowed to return but first he needed to re-do the whole entire ATPL over, I mean C-172 stuff--- IR multi, high performance/ complex you kinda know the drill....Mr. Mason should feel grateful
And believe me I think the law stinks, but we are not legislators or politicians---perish the thought---
And
as far as the USA and "homeland security" TSA?/FAA/ NTSB/and Washington AND FEMA here
I wrote:"doing something like that in the US is actually a violation of federal law...and you could lose your license, pay fines or go to jail---definitely lose your carreer--- "
and OilHead wrote:
True, but he was not in the US so what is your point?
My Point was that depending on your home country's air/crimal laws he could have had far greater consequences heaped upon him, or far less as the case maybe.???
I was trying to point out that he has his most important asset his license and his freedom---He has the chance to move on with his life as a pilot--- this gentleman sounds like a talented aviator reading some of the writings in the military aviation part of Pprune---I hope that he should find a very happy setting that better suits his ways---I wish that for us all however
Although the details are very sketchy in my mind---
---remember the case of the NWA captain who was sacked, imprisoned and fined for being intoxicated while on duty?
He was later allowed to return but first he needed to re-do the whole entire ATPL over, I mean C-172 stuff--- IR multi, high performance/ complex you kinda know the drill....Mr. Mason should feel grateful
And believe me I think the law stinks, but we are not legislators or politicians---perish the thought---
And
as far as the USA and "homeland security" TSA?/FAA/ NTSB/and Washington AND FEMA here
Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 27th Nov 2007 at 17:37. Reason: to add FEMA the worst of all
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Phillipas
Al Haynes on is DC10 flight into Sioux City got a suitable qualified pax up onto the flight deck to assist.
What on earth has this pre 9/11 incident got to do with Pablo's post 9/11 transgression???
Today, and I suspect in those days too, the Captain has the authority to deviate from ANY SOP's as he sees fit in order to secure the safe operation of the aircraft. This permission is granted to allow him the freedom to deviate from the SOP's that havent been written for the more unusual emergencies.
Of course, as someone has already pointed out, the Captain has to justify his/her actions at the subsequent board of inquiry.
Al Haynes on is DC10 flight into Sioux City got a suitable qualified pax up onto the flight deck to assist.
What on earth has this pre 9/11 incident got to do with Pablo's post 9/11 transgression???
Today, and I suspect in those days too, the Captain has the authority to deviate from ANY SOP's as he sees fit in order to secure the safe operation of the aircraft. This permission is granted to allow him the freedom to deviate from the SOP's that havent been written for the more unusual emergencies.
Of course, as someone has already pointed out, the Captain has to justify his/her actions at the subsequent board of inquiry.
Last edited by kick the tires; 27th Nov 2007 at 07:10. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by kick the tyres
Phillipas
Al Haynes on is DC10 flight into Sioux City got a suitable qualified pax up onto the flight deck to assist.
What on earth has this pre 9/11 incident got to do with Pablo's post 9/11 transgression???
Al Haynes on is DC10 flight into Sioux City got a suitable qualified pax up onto the flight deck to assist.
What on earth has this pre 9/11 incident got to do with Pablo's post 9/11 transgression???
Originally Posted by phillipas
There was no criticism of him - and even with the changes of rules since then, I'm firmly of the opinion his invitation woould be deemed wholly appropriate.
Originally Posted by kick the tyres
Today, and I suspect in those days too, the Captain has the authority to deviate from ANY SOP's as he sees fit in order to secure the safe operation of the aircraft. This permission is granted to allow him the freedom to deviate from the SOP's that havent been written for the more unusual emergencies.
SAS
Oh, dear. Did you read the post to which I was replying?
hautemude asked:
I merely answered.
Re your rather rudely put question, I won't bore readers with all the things I've done and the number of times I've 'sailed a bit close to the wind' whilst doing them.
Obviously you've never broken, bent or blatantly disregarded a "law" in your life? How about a little bit of speeding or anything else that is "against the law".
hautemude asked:
who does make the rules for flight deck visits or lack thereoff. Is it the airline as part of their "approved" ops manual or is it the law of the land"?
Re your rather rudely put question, I won't bore readers with all the things I've done and the number of times I've 'sailed a bit close to the wind' whilst doing them.
Breaking SOP's shouldn't be done lightly, but there are times when the rule book needs to be thrown out of the window
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The Captain of this flight we are talking about is a dead duck!!
He busted SOPs, acted like an egomaniac, and will pay the price...
like so many before him, that we all know about!
Sad, but true!
You know it, I know it, we all know it!!!
Can we move on?
He busted SOPs, acted like an egomaniac, and will pay the price...
like so many before him, that we all know about!
Sad, but true!
You know it, I know it, we all know it!!!
Can we move on?
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Why is it that some people continue to ignore (deliberately?) all the hints given that he was not fired for this single transgression. It seems harping on about one's own little pet hate, or agenda, is more important.
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Many FO's who flew with Pablo found him eccentric. His PA's and his prediliction for standing in the cabin with the PA doing a pier end stand up routine were either:
a) Well received by an audience of amazed pax
b) Viewed as slightly odd and unsettling by an audience of bemused pax
c) Detested by an audience of pax with an IQ over 100 who didn't want to pay for a (poor) stand up routine as well as their journey costs.
My guess was mostly b's and c's. If there was a head higher above the parapet than Pablos it would be hard to imagine. To then disregard SOP and DfT rules for the sake of cheering up some footballing idiot was frankly taking the p.
Interesting chap, interesting career. Plenty of people on the Mil forum have suggested knobishness. His Civil career speaks for itself. Can anyone name another sacked Captain in the last 5 years?
a) Well received by an audience of amazed pax
b) Viewed as slightly odd and unsettling by an audience of bemused pax
c) Detested by an audience of pax with an IQ over 100 who didn't want to pay for a (poor) stand up routine as well as their journey costs.
My guess was mostly b's and c's. If there was a head higher above the parapet than Pablos it would be hard to imagine. To then disregard SOP and DfT rules for the sake of cheering up some footballing idiot was frankly taking the p.
Interesting chap, interesting career. Plenty of people on the Mil forum have suggested knobishness. His Civil career speaks for itself. Can anyone name another sacked Captain in the last 5 years?
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Is this a forum for Professional Pilots or for chavs who think it is OK to break the law if they feel like it, when they feel like it, and spout forth the unconsidered illogical and ridiculous excuses that so characterise excusing lawbreaking in this gutless, irresponsible world we have to live in?
I suspect though, (Jesus, I dam well hope) that a great number of the posters here are not aviators, let alone Professional ones.
What is hard to get around your heads, people, that this is not SOP, this is the LAW. LAW. It is not optional, it is a decree from the government, and HAS to be obeyed. Laws, for those of the modern persuasion who haven't learned yet, are MANDATORY, and no matter how you regard their practicality, usefulness or personal inconvenience you do not have the option to ignore them, unless you are willing to face the penalty. There is NO EXCUSE AT ALL.
As to the people who have suggested there is no need for a locked door on a football charter (!!!!!!), yes, really, some numptie did! I can only say how sad I feel for someone with such a terminal lack of imagination, not to mention disrespect for, yes, the law, and such a moronic belief, I suppose, in the sanctity of those coked up drunken lawless twits who run about fields chasing inflated pigs bladders. I can think of few "role models" I'd less like to have on my flight deck.
Do you suppose Al Qaida hasn't the wit to charter an aeroplane if they wanted to do it again?
I just hope and pray they don't charter one from a company employing some of the irresponsible posters here...but then, none of those are pilots, are they?
Rant over.
Incoming!!
I suspect though, (Jesus, I dam well hope) that a great number of the posters here are not aviators, let alone Professional ones.
What is hard to get around your heads, people, that this is not SOP, this is the LAW. LAW. It is not optional, it is a decree from the government, and HAS to be obeyed. Laws, for those of the modern persuasion who haven't learned yet, are MANDATORY, and no matter how you regard their practicality, usefulness or personal inconvenience you do not have the option to ignore them, unless you are willing to face the penalty. There is NO EXCUSE AT ALL.
As to the people who have suggested there is no need for a locked door on a football charter (!!!!!!), yes, really, some numptie did! I can only say how sad I feel for someone with such a terminal lack of imagination, not to mention disrespect for, yes, the law, and such a moronic belief, I suppose, in the sanctity of those coked up drunken lawless twits who run about fields chasing inflated pigs bladders. I can think of few "role models" I'd less like to have on my flight deck.
Do you suppose Al Qaida hasn't the wit to charter an aeroplane if they wanted to do it again?
I just hope and pray they don't charter one from a company employing some of the irresponsible posters here...but then, none of those are pilots, are they?
Rant over.
Incoming!!
FOK & Boeman,
You must get out a bit more if you believe the "locked flight deck door" policy is an important breach of world freedom.
If this pilot is such an inspiration and has such a way with the media perhaps he would have been better served not using unilateral action, but instead spearheading the pilot masses to fight the authorities on the issue. Perhaps though that is just not his way!
You must get out a bit more if you believe the "locked flight deck door" policy is an important breach of world freedom.
If this pilot is such an inspiration and has such a way with the media perhaps he would have been better served not using unilateral action, but instead spearheading the pilot masses to fight the authorities on the issue. Perhaps though that is just not his way!
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Did Effo speak up?
By the way, where was the first officer in all of this? Did he verbally object to the breaking of a law and SOP? Or was he in awe of reputation of said Captain? Remember MD80 at Little Rock, and a domicile chief pilot for AA? If you don't understand the connection, you are not familiar with the CLR issues of a relatively new first officer who missed several opportunities to speak up to the Captain and break the chain of events that led up to that accident, costing the Captain and some others their lives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...es_Flight_1420
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2000/aa1420/default.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...es_Flight_1420
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2000/aa1420/default.htm
Last edited by Oilhead; 27th Nov 2007 at 13:50.
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The first officer was probably in the same situation that many FO's find themselves in when confronted with a non-conforming, SOP-light, Charactar Captain; i.e. watch the shop as hard as possible and do something when the something unsafe happens. Which it always does. As in this case when a sportsman belonging to a team of sportsmen who collectively have a criminal conviction are allowed onto the flightdeck.
Pablo broke a black and white rule.
I might do the same.
You may.
But I wouldn't if my employment record already held issues. Would You? No. Are you therefore happy with his judgement? With your kids as passengers?
Are you?
Pablo broke a black and white rule.
I might do the same.
You may.
But I wouldn't if my employment record already held issues. Would You? No. Are you therefore happy with his judgement? With your kids as passengers?
Are you?
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It's OK. Apparently he was a freedom-fighter out on the front-line taking a bullet for all of us.
There are some truly bizarre reasoning being presented in support of his actions.
There are some truly bizarre reasoning being presented in support of his actions.