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Brand new Etihad A340-600 damaged in Toulouse; several wounded

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Brand new Etihad A340-600 damaged in Toulouse; several wounded

Old 13th Aug 2008, 00:07
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Deo Gratias. That all are alive is thanks enough. The rest shall sort itself out in due course.
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Old 13th Aug 2008, 22:08
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How much?

Huck: "What would it have cost to put a couple of trained flight test pilots in the front seats....."

What's the answer to this question?
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Old 13th Aug 2008, 23:08
  #403 (permalink)  
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LedZeppelin;
Re "What's the answer to this question? "

If I may, hard to say exactly as it depends on rates but hypothetically, at 4hrs minimum per day x 2 type-qualified pilots x $200/hr each, roughly $1600.

Last edited by PJ2; 14th Aug 2008 at 14:54.
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Old 15th Aug 2008, 08:35
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Its time to cheer those poor guys up and put and put a smile back on there faces!
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Old 15th Aug 2008, 09:22
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jumping the chocks!

I've seen a Handley Page Hastings jump the chocks and have done it myself in a Provost... golden rule off engine runs..Brakes 'on' and adequate brake pressure available ! Carried out engine runs at max power on many other big jet types ..
power equalised across the aircraft and feet on brakes ..usually never causes problems!!
Hope these guys are ok!!!
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Old 15th Aug 2008, 09:35
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Post # 404
" fool! that's [B]not[B] what was meant by "do a run-up" "
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Old 15th Aug 2008, 21:38
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Chocks away?

.... mm, that is less than I thought.

Thanks PJ2
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Old 16th Aug 2008, 18:22
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Any chance Airbus will start doing these max power engine runs while the plane is positioned on an unused taxiway? Just in case of another run away?
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Old 16th Aug 2008, 20:25
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Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116
Any chance Airbus will start doing these max power engine runs while the plane is positioned on an unused taxiway? Just in case of another run away?
I doubt it....
I think Airbus would prefer not to have brand-new out-of-control aircraft careening across Blagnac airport.
Loose cannons and bulls in china shops come to mind.

Not to mention noise issues....

CJ
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Old 19th Aug 2008, 20:07
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Question from a novice in Aircraft testing : Are there any benefits of testing /running all 4 engines at the same time at max power ?
Looking for vibrations ? Testing the brakes ?
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Old 19th Aug 2008, 20:15
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Testing the brakes ?...

Well, they got their answer, didn't they!
Jim
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Old 10th Dec 2008, 21:06
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BEA Final Report Issued

PDF of full report available here (French).

Article at Flightglobal re findings include:
...power of the Rolls-Royce Trent 500 engines was increased to an engine pressure ratio of 1.25 - with the thrust levers corresponding to a position between maximum continuous thrust and maximum take-off thrust.

All four engines were operating. While the parking brake was on, registering 2,600psi, the inquiry says the applied thrust was around the limit of the parking-brake capacity.

At the time of the accident an Airbus employee was occupying the right-hand seat of the jet while an Abu Dhabi Aircraft Technologies technician was in the left-hand seat.

Flight-recorder data shows that, shortly after 16:02, the person in the left-hand seat warned that the aircraft was moving. The ground speed began gradually increasing to 4kt over the next few seconds and, after a second call that the aircraft was moving, the recorder registered pedal-braking and the deactivation of the parking brake.

Brakes on the A340-600 are linked to two hydraulic circuits: the 'green' normal circuit and the 'blue' alternate. The parking brake is on the blue circuit and only applies to the left- and right-hand main undercarriage bogies, not the centre bogie.

If the parking brake is released and the brake pedals applied, the 'green' circuit comes into play. The pedals act on all three main bogies.

Recorder data shows that 'green' circuit brake pressure on the A340 rapidly rose to 2,500psi while the 'blue' circuit pressure dropped.

About seven seconds after the first movement warning the nose-wheel was turned sharply right. Activating the nose-wheel steering inhibits braking on the central bogie, becoming completely ineffective past 20° of steering.

The aircraft swung 37° to the right but continued to accelerate, its speed increasing from 4kt to 31kt in seven seconds, before the aircraft struck the test-pen wall, demolishing its forward fuselage.
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Old 11th Dec 2008, 00:35
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Cool

Hello,

lomapaseo write ages ago ....

Why can't you just chop the engines in 5 secs or so and that would be enough to keep it from going that far over a barrier in front of you.
You have now the answer at your very good question in the report !

Valcon
Its time to cheer those poor guys up and put and put a smile back on there faces!
This cartoon is so true .....

Regards.
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Old 11th Dec 2008, 01:39
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Activating the nose-wheel steering inhibits braking on the central bogie, becoming completely ineffective past 20° of steering.
Another little "gotcha". Presumably a good reason for this in normal ops...but when the proverbial hits the fan surely you want all stopping capabilities..... usually if you are swerving to avoid something that would be an indication you need a large stopping force....

A lot of these Airbus features which generally are pretty good seem to have major ramifications at rather inconvenient times.

A couple of caveats before the usual B vs A debate: Neither manufacturer is immune from these "gotchas", and is this incident clearly a few protocols were overlooked and lastly reducing the thrust might have seemed like a good idea too.
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Old 11th Dec 2008, 02:43
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From the report -- no, I'm not translating the whole thing

The observer in the jump seat was a licensed pilot with AB type ratings but was leaving the conduct of the flight test to the guy in charge (who unfortunately got fixated); so, did not pull the throttles until he saw the wall coming up [and self preservation instincts took over].

Of course there are now new procedures:
  • High power runs on two (not four) opposite engines at a time
  • Chocks always to be used -- people stopped using them because they tend to get jammed and the a/c has to be subsequently pushed back to retrieve the chocks.
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Old 11th Dec 2008, 08:23
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Chocks always to be used -- people stopped using them because they tend to get jammed and the a/c has to be subsequently pushed back to retrieve the chocks.


We've been through this before. Chocks should not be placed against wheels during engine run-ups. Boeing warns against this in their Maintenance Manuals. Airbus doesn't. Boeing has my vote.
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Old 11th Dec 2008, 15:02
  #417 (permalink)  
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The first sentence of the report recommendation :
L’enquête a mis en évidence des dérives répétitives par rapport aux procédures opérationnelles écrites au sein de la direction des essais pour la réalisation des essais au sol
Basically saying that repeatedly test technicians were not following the written procedures , but this must have been known by their superiors as everything was taped.Commercial pressure is mentioned in the report.
Anyway lessons have been learned as those procedures have since been re-written , ( max 2 engines at a time, chocks in place.etc.. ) according the report, and now even the ground controllers have to verify on the R/T that chocks are in place before giving authorization to start an engine test run .
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Old 11th Dec 2008, 15:22
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We've been through this before. Chocks should not be placed against wheels during engine run-ups. Boeing warns against this in their Maintenance Manuals. Airbus doesn't. Boeing has my vote.
Agree, but might it still get jammed if you do 4 engine run-ups at high power ?
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Old 11th Dec 2008, 15:25
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.......... and now even the ground controllers have to verify on the R/T that chocks are in place before giving authorization to start an engine test run.
And do these ground controllers know the correct 'in place' for the chocks? I'd guess no.

Thanks to Spanner Turner, Post 213.

Quote below is from the Maintenance Manual. (a 747 manual, but you get the picture).

C. Prepare for Engine Operation.

(1) Check that airplane is parked in clean area with wheels on areas that are free of oil, grease, or other slippery substances.

(2) Make sure the wheel chocks are installed at the main landing gear wheels and ground locks are installed.

(a) Do these steps if you will operate the engines for a high power engine run.

1) Make sure that the forward wheel chock is six to twelve inches in front of the tires.

NOTE: This will cause the thrust of the engine to be held by the frictional force between the airplane tires and the ground, and not the wheel chock. The wheel chocks do not have the same frictional force as the tires. If the tires touch the wheel chock, some of the frictional force between the tires and the ground is lost, and the airplane can skid. The wheel chocks are only used to prevent the airplane from rolling if the airplane brakes were accidentally released before or after the engine run.
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Old 11th Dec 2008, 16:48
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There are sections of it's fuselage at the 380 section delivery bay at lagaderre on the back of low loaders today..........................................yesterday two A380 section 19 lowers, guess it's spring clean time.......
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