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BA088 Mayday

Old 8th Nov 2007, 17:55
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but the diversion did not take place
Yes I think we've got that clear
But as to what was on the relevant FICO page at the time I have to say it was as I posted. Now with hindsight we can see that the manual inputs (by ops) didn't keep up with events - leading to all the various systems that are driven by that (ba.com, ceefax etc) giving erroneous info.
Having been in that situation before, I have learnt to "modify" our fuel policy - inbound to LHR - to allow for wider safety margins.
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 19:01
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Could an expert please explain why, if the probability of arriving over the English Channel with too little fuel (EAT delays are likely, after all) was already known as the aircraft flew over the N Africa coast, if that was the case, a short on-route tech stop wasn't made at an uncrowded European airport to fill 'er up a bit?

Just asking, NOT criticising........would there have been FTL issues, any issues other than just cost and slightly delayed pax? Better than ending up with a MayDay situation, no matter how much that was a matter of procedure rather than of real and immediate danger?
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 19:39
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you lot are always normally so sh1t hot on incidents like this



More like full of it
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 19:54
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Angel

Flying is not an exact science... sometimes (most times) you're able to arrive in the TMA with sufficient fuel to comply with the regulations... but, just occasionally, one can get 'caught out' and with all the best intents one arrives with less then would be desired - and it can certainly be nip & tuck as to what to do (especially so when looking at the FMC's PROG page fuel on arrival prediction whilst crossing the N.African coast with 2+ hours to go).

When you put in to perspective the number of times folks arrive in the TMA with their fuel probably exactly on the money as per their PLOG... the occasional FU is only to be expected (imho).... indeed I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often; especially so given the pressure we're all under to take PLOG fuel !

And always remember that, when sitting in your cozy living room / hotel room etc, the phrase that "Hindsight is a wonderful thing". So don't be be too quick to judge!
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 20:12
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I know 411A likes to bash the Brits but it would be interesting to see how many major US carriers arrived at their home bases each year on a "Minimum Fuel Advisory". Given that there is no similar mechanism in the UK to get priority other than declaring a PAN it would be interesting to compare the PAN/MFA levels. I'm sure he'll be along shortly to tell us why it's all different and better over there.
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 20:17
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Heh 411.
You are most likely one of those guys who sits around the bar somewhere in the world commenting about the price of fuel us poor Brits have to pay. Funny thing is my car gets 50 to the gallon and yours gets 14. Yawn..........
Sounds like a text book move the guys played plain and simple. Thanks for the comments!
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 20:47
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I've always been under the impression 411A was a Brit; just happens to be living in AZ?
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 20:54
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Oh no!!!

This would make the aircraft a top priority with no go-around to be scheduled.
Uh-oh lads, we've been rumbled! The flight crew are realising that we schedule the go-arounds in advance!

Quick, burn the evidence!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 21:01
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The monster EATs did come as a bit of a surprise. We departed an hour down the road into LHR and on initial contact with Laaandun were told of EATs of 25mins. When we left BovingTON people were getting 35mins. You don't expect things like that when the Wx and AIS gives you no reason to suggest there's a problem (especially when you're 4000miles away in Africa.)

sB
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 21:56
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One g/a.....one missed slot......
= delays = EATs [not] LHR, but things happen....
bb
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 09:28
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what was the spacing in front when he was a PAN and were there any sent around in front of him once a mayday was declared at 9 miles?
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 10:47
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<<and declaring a MAYDAY is that runways will be sterilised to assure the landing and a number of movements will be lost thus increasing the delays for everyone else >>

I don't think so... unless things have changed since I retired. We'd make sure the space ahead of an aircraft with a fuel problem was bigger than usual to avoid a go-around but that's all.
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 12:25
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HD,

I don't think so... unless things have changed since I retired. We'd make sure the space ahead of an aircraft with a fuel problem was bigger than usual to avoid a go-around but that's all.
You've been retired quite a while and things have changed quite a lot.

If an a/c inbound has declared a MAYDAY due to fuel shortage then its nominated landing runway will be sterilised ie kept clear for it, from the time it is 15nm or 18nm from touchdown depending on whether it's landing on the nominated departure or arrival runway.

One thing's for sure, you wouldn't enjoy it as much now as you did before.
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 18:05
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Del Prado,

to answer your question, he was given the non landing runway
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 18:08
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thanks.

just curious like.
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 18:38
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I know there will be howls of protest from the BA gang but to me it looks 'untidy' and 'unprofessionally' handled.

Held down over Africa - there's a surprise?

Short of fuel for EAT

a) Did not plan 20 mins holding (as per UK, I gather) plus expected level problems
b) Did not seek (or could not get) stack swap
c) Did not 'splash and dash' inbound

Then changed mind when on a diversion and offered LHR 'straight-in' - 'somewhere around here' a PAN declared
1) Stick with a diversion plan is a good idea unless things are going WRONG - here they were NOT
2) It must have easily forseeable that a Mayday in BA's rules would be required with the return to LHR, thus getting in everyone else's way

I know this situation can happen - it happens to all of us, but Captains are in the seat because they are judged to have the 'experience' to foresee these events and plan accordingly. From my point of view this did not happen. Not having the Minimum Fuel Advisory option does NOT help

Nota Bene: Not calling for hanging - just a bit less of the 'well done old chap' and 'did it by the book' - I do not have that chapter in my book.
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 18:48
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Quote "2) It must have easily forseeable that a Mayday in BA's rules would be required with the return to LHR, thus getting in everyone else's way "

And how do you know he got in everyone else's way?

Not having a go just interested.
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 19:10
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Originally Posted by roffa
If an a/c inbound has declared a MAYDAY due to fuel shortage then its nominated landing runway will be sterilised ie kept clear for it, from the time it is 15nm or 18nm from touchdown depending on whether it's landing on the nominated departure or arrival runway.
- in my book (I have that chapter) I reckon that slows other folk up a bit especially when it is busy, don't you ?

'anotherthing' also tells us the departure runway was used so I would guess a few take-offs got delayed?

Of course, at Luton only the BA88 would suffer any significant delays.
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 19:12
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Only slows up the other traffic if there's any around to slow up.
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 20:23
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Only slows up the other traffic if there's any around to slow up.
Which of course, at LHR, there never is
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