Virgin Co-Pilot arrested, allegedly over alcohol limit. No case to answer.
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Virgin Co-Pilot arrested, allegedly over alcohol limit. No case to answer.
Just breaking on BBC News24 - a virgin co-pilot was arrested by police for being over the alcohol limit on an aircraft. Flight reported as Virgin Flight 5, flight delayed by 3½ hrs while new crew found.
Any info, anyone?
Any info, anyone?
Last edited by Super VC-10; 28th Oct 2007 at 18:38.
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Point taken, but I'm only repeating what the beeb said. I'm not an aviation professional (& don't profess to be such), just interested in civil aviation amongst other things. 
Wotmesir?
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Does the airline industry have a similar routine to the railway as to testing for alcohol when reporting for work? I am breathalysed on a random basis about 2/3 times a month when booking on and the limit (I think) is 12 micrograms/100 ml of breath, about a third of the road limit.
My personal maxim is no alcohol in the 36 hours preceding a working day. Not worth it.
Would flight crew welcome such a testing regime if one does not already exist?
My personal maxim is no alcohol in the 36 hours preceding a working day. Not worth it.
Would flight crew welcome such a testing regime if one does not already exist?
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Davy07, the crew member was arrested on the grounds of suspicion. It has not been proven that he is guilty of any offence. There is no disgrace in being arrested on the grounds of suspicion, could happen to you, or me, tomorrow. There could be many reason to give a police officer grounds to suspect such an offence is being committed, which may later be proved mistaken by laboratory analysis. So hold fire on the condemnation until the facts are fully known.
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Why would they replace the whole crew, when only one crew member was involved? Surely it would be quicker and easier just to find a fresh First Officer?
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Alcohol Limits
The prescribed limit of alcohol is as follows (Note: sub paras are copied from the act).
(a) in the case of breath, 9 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres,
(b) in the case of blood, 20 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres, and
(c) in the case of urine, 27 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres.
(a) in the case of breath, 9 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres,
(b) in the case of blood, 20 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres, and
(c) in the case of urine, 27 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres.
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Police Arrest Pilot Before Take-Off
Updated: 19:22, Sunday October 28, 2007
A passenger jet co-pilot has been arrested on suspicion of being over the legal alcohol limit.
The Virgin Atlantic Plane was delayed
Police boarded the Virgin Atlantic Airbus A340-600 at about 11am to arrest the pilot just before take-off.
The 266 passengers on board the flight from Heathrow Airport to Miami were delayed three and a half hours while a replacement flight crew was found.
A spokesman for Scotland Yard said: "At 11.16am officers arrested a 42-year-old crew member on board a Virgin Atlantic flight to Miami.
"He was arrested under section 94 of the Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003."
He was later freed on bail but remains suspended from duty pending a police investigation, the airline said
A spokeswoman for the airline said: "Virgin Atlantic can confirm that one of its first officers has been released on police bail in connection with an allegation made this morning.
"Virgin Atlantic would like to apologise for the inconvenience caused and would like to reassure passengers that the airline will be investigating this matter thoroughly in accordance with its strict company policies in relation to operational staff.
"The safety and security of its passengers and crew is Virgin Atlantic's top priority."
Airline regulations, in accordance with transport law, recommend flight crews drink no alcohol for at least eight hours before flying.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...290503,00.html
Updated: 19:22, Sunday October 28, 2007
A passenger jet co-pilot has been arrested on suspicion of being over the legal alcohol limit.
The Virgin Atlantic Plane was delayed
Police boarded the Virgin Atlantic Airbus A340-600 at about 11am to arrest the pilot just before take-off.
The 266 passengers on board the flight from Heathrow Airport to Miami were delayed three and a half hours while a replacement flight crew was found.
A spokesman for Scotland Yard said: "At 11.16am officers arrested a 42-year-old crew member on board a Virgin Atlantic flight to Miami.
"He was arrested under section 94 of the Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003."
He was later freed on bail but remains suspended from duty pending a police investigation, the airline said
A spokeswoman for the airline said: "Virgin Atlantic can confirm that one of its first officers has been released on police bail in connection with an allegation made this morning.
"Virgin Atlantic would like to apologise for the inconvenience caused and would like to reassure passengers that the airline will be investigating this matter thoroughly in accordance with its strict company policies in relation to operational staff.
"The safety and security of its passengers and crew is Virgin Atlantic's top priority."
Airline regulations, in accordance with transport law, recommend flight crews drink no alcohol for at least eight hours before flying.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...290503,00.html
Does the airline industry have a similar routine to the railway as to testing for alcohol when reporting for work? I am breathalysed on a random basis about 2/3 times a month when booking on and the limit (I think) is 12 micrograms/100 ml of breath, about a third of the road limit.
The answer is no, the airline industry does not have such as system. From a personal point of view I would have no objection in principle to such a procedure.
I am interested in how it is adminstered in the railway industry, is the test done by your employer or by the regulatory body or the police?
What is happens if the test is positive but by a small margin? Obviously you must be removed from duty, but what happen then?
Is the procedure for handling those who fail by a large margin different from the situation outlined above?
How are repeated failures dealt with?
If the test is administered by your employer, and you fail, do they inform the police?
On another tack, I have long felt that given the number of police vehicles involved in accidents and the general demands of the job (including access to firearms), similar alcohol limits and testing procedures should be applied to all police officers reporting for duty.
YS
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Take care when using 'off the shelf' BAC meters
Nobby,
I was in Perth WA last year and picked up an AL 6000 on the recommendation of OverRun (who had purchased one 6 months earlier). It is indeed easy to use, and it looks the dogs bx. For fun OverRun and I decided to have a comparison shoot out between the two machines, and a bottle of WA's finest. To our astonishment at every stage there was 0.02 % points difference between them (i.e. his would read 0.06 and mine 0.08) for consecutive tests with the same person. I have since calibrated mine against other types and I am fairly sure that its 'worst-case' accurate (which suits me fine) and its consistent, but be aware - they don't last forever and individual machines vary.
OverRun? I think he ran his over with his Landcruiser. He was certainly in better shape than me the next day.
Pinkman
I was in Perth WA last year and picked up an AL 6000 on the recommendation of OverRun (who had purchased one 6 months earlier). It is indeed easy to use, and it looks the dogs bx. For fun OverRun and I decided to have a comparison shoot out between the two machines, and a bottle of WA's finest. To our astonishment at every stage there was 0.02 % points difference between them (i.e. his would read 0.06 and mine 0.08) for consecutive tests with the same person. I have since calibrated mine against other types and I am fairly sure that its 'worst-case' accurate (which suits me fine) and its consistent, but be aware - they don't last forever and individual machines vary.
OverRun? I think he ran his over with his Landcruiser. He was certainly in better shape than me the next day.
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lets wait and see wether the police charge him or not. The last one was met by a tirade of self rightous bu****t, only for the guy to be found completely alchohol free, and it was because his breath smelt sweet due to excessive 'dr atkins' dieting.
This could well be another one of these, or even worse a malicious lie from some security to55er that this poor fella dared to actually question
I have certainly smelt alchohol on the breath of BAA "security" bods in the morning, on more than one occasion, maybe I should phone the police and get them arrested every time my unqualified suspicion makes me think they've had a drink?
This could well be another one of these, or even worse a malicious lie from some security to55er that this poor fella dared to actually question
I have certainly smelt alchohol on the breath of BAA "security" bods in the morning, on more than one occasion, maybe I should phone the police and get them arrested every time my unqualified suspicion makes me think they've had a drink?
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The reason for this man being bailed is that the standard police Lion Intoximeter, used for car drivers, is not reliable down to 9ucg in 100ml of breath so a blood test has to be taken, and it will be a while before the report comes back from the lab. So all we know is that the police formed a reasonable suspicion he was over the limit. Time will tell if that was true.
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sevenstrokeroll
Afraid not, if only Sky were this accurate. Was just hanging in on GMC2 when they returned from the 27R holding point, opposite to all the traffic flows. The aircraft returned to 582 and went out about 3 hours later.
Innocent until proven guilty, please folks. Could be any of us 'accused'!
understand the Airbus in question was actually in the Hangar (Virgin Hangar) behind the BA jet...just the caption was wrong.
Innocent until proven guilty, please folks. Could be any of us 'accused'!
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Let us hope the FO gets their bac result pdq and not under 'suspicion' for too long
Interesting that some posters assume the FO was 'shopped' by Security and not a vengeful cabin crew member (as per KLM) or A N Other - no report of who complained.
Interesting that some posters assume the FO was 'shopped' by Security and not a vengeful cabin crew member (as per KLM) or A N Other - no report of who complained.
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VS have a drugs and alcohol policy which includes random tests. However, company policy is that anyone tested is stood down from duty regardless of the result.
I don't know the details of this case yet but I would guess there is good chance that as has been the case before all 3 crew were tested by the Police after the allegation was made and therefore all stood down.
I don't know the details of this case yet but I would guess there is good chance that as has been the case before all 3 crew were tested by the Police after the allegation was made and therefore all stood down.
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Interesting that some posters assume the FO was 'shopped' by Security and not a vengeful cabin crew member