SAS Q400 gear collaps CPH 27/10
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hawkeye red, I donīt believe you when you say you was offered a job with SAS. The reason for that is your comment about those who flew the Q400. Are they not qualified you mean?
Once again your comments says a whole lot about you.
Concerning the MD80, I honestly donīt know what you are referring to, Iīve only been in SAS for 10 years. Iīm sure you can give some truthful details without exaggerations.
If you bother to do a search on Pprune you will find one or two things about Q400 incidents not related to SAS.
Tell you what, the thing I certainly dislike about working for SAS is those who, for some reason, loves to hate SAS. Not to mention some colleagues in other airlines who, without knowing me, think that I look down on pilots in other companies.
Once again your comments says a whole lot about you.
Concerning the MD80, I honestly donīt know what you are referring to, Iīve only been in SAS for 10 years. Iīm sure you can give some truthful details without exaggerations.
If you bother to do a search on Pprune you will find one or two things about Q400 incidents not related to SAS.
Tell you what, the thing I certainly dislike about working for SAS is those who, for some reason, loves to hate SAS. Not to mention some colleagues in other airlines who, without knowing me, think that I look down on pilots in other companies.
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flaps2billion:
Apologies for the lateness in this reply...
Which comes across as pretty much the same thing to uninformed readers. We should at least be able to agree on that. Many people believe everything they read. Even experts who recognize fabrications and factual errors in articles dealing with their expertise have a tendancy to believe much more of what they read outside of their expertise.
No it wasn't. My reference was to an article which lent credence to the suggestion that wake turbulence from a stealth bomber caused the upset. I cannot find the article at the moment, unfortunately.
Regardless...
The headline to which you were referring was irresponsible. However, I disagree that North American or Canadian media are any more or less reponsible/irresponsible/biased than European media.
In order to close my end of the discussion, I refer you to the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...aper_headlines
Regards
Apologies for the lateness in this reply...
??? Im not talking about speculation...I am talking about absolute statements prior to final report...
Was the article headline similar to this, "Air Canada has been flying dangerous airplanes for years when the aircraft rolled 60* for no apparent reason."
Regardless...
The headline to which you were referring was irresponsible. However, I disagree that North American or Canadian media are any more or less reponsible/irresponsible/biased than European media.
In order to close my end of the discussion, I refer you to the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...aper_headlines
Regards
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Ladusvala,
I passed the entrance test with SAS in the spring of 1982 - I shall be happy to show you the documentation.
As for the Q400 pilots, don't you think it's a little compromising that pilots who were rejected at the entrance test with SAS were offered positions with Eurolink and SAS Commuter. With the merger of Commuter into SAS they are now suddenly "real" SAS pilots - only they are paid 20% less base salary, approximately 17% less pension, and work 5/3 as compared to 5/4 as the "real" SAS pilots. What does that say about the working climate ?
As for the maintenance of the MD80 all reports are available through all Scandinavian CAA's - or you can read the media from about 6 months ago, which both document that SAS failed to maintain their MD80's in accordance with company regulations.
I wonder how you have missed that....
I passed the entrance test with SAS in the spring of 1982 - I shall be happy to show you the documentation.
As for the Q400 pilots, don't you think it's a little compromising that pilots who were rejected at the entrance test with SAS were offered positions with Eurolink and SAS Commuter. With the merger of Commuter into SAS they are now suddenly "real" SAS pilots - only they are paid 20% less base salary, approximately 17% less pension, and work 5/3 as compared to 5/4 as the "real" SAS pilots. What does that say about the working climate ?
As for the maintenance of the MD80 all reports are available through all Scandinavian CAA's - or you can read the media from about 6 months ago, which both document that SAS failed to maintain their MD80's in accordance with company regulations.
I wonder how you have missed that....
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Wonder why it is so important for you that everybody believes that you have passed the selection for SAS, when you think itīs such a bad company? It doesnīt add up.
Sorry, I have searched Aftonbladet, Expressen and the swedish CAA and canīt find anything about the MD80. Lots about the Q400 though.
Naturally I thought you meant something much older since you claim SAS has been so lousy for decades.
Thereīs two payscales in SAS, one for mainline and one for the RC-segment (Regional Commuter). You can bid between the segments but Commuter pilots hired before 1997 can still not count seniority from before that year. Hopefully it will be changed.
SAS and SAS Commuter selections has always been quite similar and from 1998 (1997) they were the same, i.e. you applied, took the tests and were placed in one of the companies. After 4 years you had the right to bid for the other company.
Why this obsession about SAS selections?
Sorry, I have searched Aftonbladet, Expressen and the swedish CAA and canīt find anything about the MD80. Lots about the Q400 though.
Naturally I thought you meant something much older since you claim SAS has been so lousy for decades.
Thereīs two payscales in SAS, one for mainline and one for the RC-segment (Regional Commuter). You can bid between the segments but Commuter pilots hired before 1997 can still not count seniority from before that year. Hopefully it will be changed.
SAS and SAS Commuter selections has always been quite similar and from 1998 (1997) they were the same, i.e. you applied, took the tests and were placed in one of the companies. After 4 years you had the right to bid for the other company.
Why this obsession about SAS selections?
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Stand back, take a deap breath and listen please
You two need to get face-to-face, may be over a jar or three, and sort this out. Slagging each other off (plus said company) in public ain't good for all of us in the business. Gentlemen, state facts that can be proven, otherwise please just go get "fall over sh*t faced" together, and agree to disagree.
Thanks, Grumpy old b'stard who's been around too long for sh*t to stick!!
Thanks, Grumpy old b'stard who's been around too long for sh*t to stick!!
If I understand this news item correctly, EASA now regards the defective filter in question as a "design flaw":
http://standby.dk/news/14751
http://standby.dk/news/14751
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EASA and the Q400
Actually EASA has just now reconfirmed its faith in the airworthiness of the Q400. Just spotted this on an EASA bulletin:
EASA meeting with Transport Canada Civil Aviation and National Aviation Authorities of Denmark, Sweden and Norway
EASA, Transport Canada Civil Aviation (TCCA) and the three Scandinavian Authorities of Denmark, Sweden and Norway met yesterday in Cologne to discuss the situation in Scandinavia of the DHC-8-400 airplane after the three accidents related to the Main Landing Gear of this aircraft in September and October 2007.
The exchange of views was cooperative, useful and productive. It was agreed that good communication lines between all authorities involved have to be considered as being essential for dealing with safety matters. Existing systems for reporting of service difficulties and the exchange of available safety data between competent Authorities in Canada and in Europe will be jointly reviewed aiming to confirm its effectiveness.
EASA and TCCA confirmed the airworthiness of the DHC-8-400 airplane.
EASA meeting with Transport Canada Civil Aviation and National Aviation Authorities of Denmark, Sweden and Norway
EASA, Transport Canada Civil Aviation (TCCA) and the three Scandinavian Authorities of Denmark, Sweden and Norway met yesterday in Cologne to discuss the situation in Scandinavia of the DHC-8-400 airplane after the three accidents related to the Main Landing Gear of this aircraft in September and October 2007.
The exchange of views was cooperative, useful and productive. It was agreed that good communication lines between all authorities involved have to be considered as being essential for dealing with safety matters. Existing systems for reporting of service difficulties and the exchange of available safety data between competent Authorities in Canada and in Europe will be jointly reviewed aiming to confirm its effectiveness.
EASA and TCCA confirmed the airworthiness of the DHC-8-400 airplane.
Why only SAS?
Bear with me, as I speculate a bit.
Why only SAS many people ask, myself included and Ive been looking for just that difference between SAS Q400 operations and other operators. Only one thing has been different physically and that is the optional 282 psi high pressure tires that SAS used. Maybe these tires have been putting a higher stress on the landing gear than the normal pressure tires. (SAS flew with the normal tires in the end)
SAS also had 2 tailstrikes when phasing in the Q400 as the plane was flown as a Fokker 50: chop the power at 50 feet and flare all the way to touchdown, anyone who has flown the Q400 knows what result of that is.
I dont know how other operators fly the aircraft, but because of the tailstrikes in SAS, the aircraft was mostly flown power on all the way until touchdown, landing with flaps 15 and a speed right in the middle between the 2 bugs. Perhaps others pilots can enlighten us on what landing technique they use?
And in spite of all the difficulties I think the Q400 is a good aircraft, Bombardier should just put some more energy into supporting and refining. If Bombardier puts in the effort, they will not have a good aircraft, but an absolute winner.
We can start a little list with small stuff that should be made better on the Q400.
Ill suggest something that should be easy for Bombardier to improve:
Setting of speedbugs: Pilots and copilots bugs should all be settable from either side and when V1 has been set Vr bug should appear from the V1 speed and so on, it's tiresome to set all the bugs from 0!
Why only SAS many people ask, myself included and Ive been looking for just that difference between SAS Q400 operations and other operators. Only one thing has been different physically and that is the optional 282 psi high pressure tires that SAS used. Maybe these tires have been putting a higher stress on the landing gear than the normal pressure tires. (SAS flew with the normal tires in the end)
SAS also had 2 tailstrikes when phasing in the Q400 as the plane was flown as a Fokker 50: chop the power at 50 feet and flare all the way to touchdown, anyone who has flown the Q400 knows what result of that is.
I dont know how other operators fly the aircraft, but because of the tailstrikes in SAS, the aircraft was mostly flown power on all the way until touchdown, landing with flaps 15 and a speed right in the middle between the 2 bugs. Perhaps others pilots can enlighten us on what landing technique they use?
And in spite of all the difficulties I think the Q400 is a good aircraft, Bombardier should just put some more energy into supporting and refining. If Bombardier puts in the effort, they will not have a good aircraft, but an absolute winner.
We can start a little list with small stuff that should be made better on the Q400.
Ill suggest something that should be easy for Bombardier to improve:
Setting of speedbugs: Pilots and copilots bugs should all be settable from either side and when V1 has been set Vr bug should appear from the V1 speed and so on, it's tiresome to set all the bugs from 0!
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Agreed on the speedbugs, absolute pain, seems trivial but when you have up to 6 sectors a day, with short turnarounds it all helps.
Also get the speedtape damped when established on final, it is way too sensitive.
Incr Ref also needs looking at as it applies to the boots in reality not the props, but it goes on with the props!
Also get the speedtape damped when established on final, it is way too sensitive.
Incr Ref also needs looking at as it applies to the boots in reality not the props, but it goes on with the props!
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Only one thing has been different physically and that is the optional 282 psi high pressure tires that SAS used. Maybe these tires have been putting a higher stress on the landing gear than the normal pressure tires.
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Absolute 100% right on the speedbugs. It's quite some time that I flew the -400 and we were just changing to the new style EFIS when I left, but setting all the speeds from 0 just doesn't make sense. It's not only a matter of convenience but also of logic and safety. It shouldn't even be possible to set Vr below V1 and starting at 80 or 100kts for V1 would be enough.
I did not talk to DHC guys in person but I recall from talks with those of us who did that at least the test pilots did not care much about the "new style" EFIS (done only because SAS insisted on it we were told) and especially the speed bugs. Hearsay only, but when our technical pilot complained to a test pilot about the tedious speed bug setting he was told something like "ah, we just set them once a day and then leave them there"......
We landed power on but AFAIK flaps 35 landings (instead of 15) are now used more often as they may be done with reduced prop RPM as well (which was initially limited to flaps 15 landings).
It's a pity that DHC didn't really take advantage of the cockpit technology available for the -400. Decent synoptic pages, an updated warning system and maybe even "dark cockpit" overhead panel would have made the 400 a much nicer plane.
I did not talk to DHC guys in person but I recall from talks with those of us who did that at least the test pilots did not care much about the "new style" EFIS (done only because SAS insisted on it we were told) and especially the speed bugs. Hearsay only, but when our technical pilot complained to a test pilot about the tedious speed bug setting he was told something like "ah, we just set them once a day and then leave them there"......
We landed power on but AFAIK flaps 35 landings (instead of 15) are now used more often as they may be done with reduced prop RPM as well (which was initially limited to flaps 15 landings).
It's a pity that DHC didn't really take advantage of the cockpit technology available for the -400. Decent synoptic pages, an updated warning system and maybe even "dark cockpit" overhead panel would have made the 400 a much nicer plane.
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It's a pity that DHC didn't really take advantage of the cockpit technology available for the -400. Decent synoptic pages, an updated warning system and maybe even "dark cockpit" overhead panel would have made the 400 a much nicer plane
You are certainly right, but we and Horizon are to blame not Bombardier. We insisted on as much communality between the DH8/300 and the DH8/400 cockpit as possible.
Our position during the definition of the DH8/400 ist understandable. In these times it was not clear that the authorities would allow CCQ (Cross Crew Qualification) between DH8/300 and DH8/400 and so we wanted the cockpit design of the DH/400 to stay close to the DH8/300
Operators like SAS with no mixed DH8 fleet naturally demanded a more sophisticated cockpit design.
You are certainly right, but we and Horizon are to blame not Bombardier. We insisted on as much communality between the DH8/300 and the DH8/400 cockpit as possible.
Our position during the definition of the DH8/400 ist understandable. In these times it was not clear that the authorities would allow CCQ (Cross Crew Qualification) between DH8/300 and DH8/400 and so we wanted the cockpit design of the DH/400 to stay close to the DH8/300
Operators like SAS with no mixed DH8 fleet naturally demanded a more sophisticated cockpit design.
:-) (-:
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How about a new thread somewhere:
Wishlist for the Dash-8-500 (or Dash 8-X):
I'll continue those mentioned above (speedbugs). I want:
- A sidewindow you can open
- Automatic rudder trim (having to make trim-changes every time you cange power is annoying...
)
- A "quiet" cockpit on the ground! They did it with the -300, why has the -400 got to make all those dings and triple dings every time a door is opened or any warning or caution lights come on during and after engine-shut down? Shouldn't be to difficult a logic: WOW and engine off: no sound
- a push to center heading bug (and include those self-aligning, self-identifying VOR/ILS option which is used on the CRJ as well!)
- a properly working air conditioning system. How come you can have about 40° difference in the ducts on the -300 and only about 20° on the 400? It can get really freezing up front with a full load in the back
- A bigger airplane HASN'T GOT to feel bigger - make the handflying easy!
Otherwise I love the Dash
- Great airplane, reliable. Flies just like a big Cessna 
Wishlist for the Dash-8-500 (or Dash 8-X):
I'll continue those mentioned above (speedbugs). I want:
- A sidewindow you can open
- Automatic rudder trim (having to make trim-changes every time you cange power is annoying...
)- A "quiet" cockpit on the ground! They did it with the -300, why has the -400 got to make all those dings and triple dings every time a door is opened or any warning or caution lights come on during and after engine-shut down? Shouldn't be to difficult a logic: WOW and engine off: no sound
- a push to center heading bug (and include those self-aligning, self-identifying VOR/ILS option which is used on the CRJ as well!)
- a properly working air conditioning system. How come you can have about 40° difference in the ducts on the -300 and only about 20° on the 400? It can get really freezing up front with a full load in the back
- A bigger airplane HASN'T GOT to feel bigger - make the handflying easy!
Otherwise I love the Dash
- Great airplane, reliable. Flies just like a big Cessna
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Dh8/500
Heating for Wing and Stabilizer Deice instead of Deicer Boots (would get rid of the high speed penalties on approach in icing conditions)
Max TO weight raised to be able to take 30% more fuel with full load.
Great plane
Max TO weight raised to be able to take 30% more fuel with full load.
Great plane
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Wideroe pressing for new Q400s to replace grounded fleet
By David Kaminski-Morrow
Wideroe will not reinstate the Bombardier Q400s grounded by parent SAS Group last October but is pressing to replace the fleet with newer examples of the type.
The Norwegian regional carrier had four Q400s at the time of the grounding and has since added a brand new Q400 which, like the others, is parked. Some 30% of Wideroe's fleet has been put out of action.
Wideroe insists that the airline will no longer fly any of the Q400s affected by the original grounding, but says the carrier is trying to convince the SAS Group board to take new Q400s instead.
"We would like to keep operating the Q400. It's a fantastic aircraft for Wideroe," says the airline. "What we want is new Q400s. To fulfil our needs now, we need five aircraft."
Wideroe still has five Q400s on option. The carrier plans to sell or lease its current fleet - the four aircraft caught up in the October grounding are about six years old.
Although SAS Group has stated that it will address long-term replacement of the Q400 by the second half of this year, Wideroe says: "We have signals now that a decision is very close to hand."
Wideroe has been leasing Fokker 50 turboprops from Dutch company Denim Air and a Fokker 100 jet from France's Blue Line to cope with the shortfall in capacity created by the grounding.
By David Kaminski-Morrow
Wideroe will not reinstate the Bombardier Q400s grounded by parent SAS Group last October but is pressing to replace the fleet with newer examples of the type.
The Norwegian regional carrier had four Q400s at the time of the grounding and has since added a brand new Q400 which, like the others, is parked. Some 30% of Wideroe's fleet has been put out of action.
Wideroe insists that the airline will no longer fly any of the Q400s affected by the original grounding, but says the carrier is trying to convince the SAS Group board to take new Q400s instead.
"We would like to keep operating the Q400. It's a fantastic aircraft for Wideroe," says the airline. "What we want is new Q400s. To fulfil our needs now, we need five aircraft."
Wideroe still has five Q400s on option. The carrier plans to sell or lease its current fleet - the four aircraft caught up in the October grounding are about six years old.
Although SAS Group has stated that it will address long-term replacement of the Q400 by the second half of this year, Wideroe says: "We have signals now that a decision is very close to hand."
Wideroe has been leasing Fokker 50 turboprops from Dutch company Denim Air and a Fokker 100 jet from France's Blue Line to cope with the shortfall in capacity created by the grounding.
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Qantas, gearproblems?
Found this article about a Qantas Dash with gearproblems a few days ago.
http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/...ondsubsection=
Anyone with info if it was a Q400?
http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/...ondsubsection=
Anyone with info if it was a Q400?
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yarwun
yes,it was a q400.qantas flight qf2360.brisbane to rockhampton.i stepped off plane at gladstone.
Last edited by yarwun; 22nd Feb 2008 at 19:27. Reason: more info
