Is this you???
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 'professions' mentioned above are governed and overseen by professional bodies. A doctor or lawyer fouls things up or brings his profession into disrepute, he is brought before a committe of his peers who may disqualify or disbarr him or her, never to practice again.
Self regulation?
A paradigm beyond reproach if ever there was one.
SR71 - BEng ACGI PhD MRAeS.....errrr, JAA ATPL
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just acting as devil advocate I would say that basically all flight planning and performance calculation computer systems will tell you about "how much fuel, route, altitude, fuel, alternates and thrust derates". And actually what you are doing at preflight is checking printouts agains latest weather and applying your previous route experience to decide whether the printout is correct or "let's uplift 700 USG more just for mum".
It's the "previous route experience" that should be bringing in the big bucks. That's exactly what I'm talking about. A doctor tan read a perf log and tell me how much fuel I should carry, but how many of us would trust a doctor to make a fuel decision? Likewise, will you trust your lawyer to decide a takeoff power setting for you? Hop not, cause he'll just go for whatever is on the paper, without considering any other factors.
Pilots are considered blue-collar workers, i.e. they earn a living with their hands.......The doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc that you compare them to, are white collar workers, i.e. they earn a living with their heads.
What about surgeons? Never hard of a procedure where he cuts somebody open by thinking about it hard enough. I guess he's blue collar too? I'll paraphrase an old saying "the superior pilot uses his superior judgment to keep himself out of situations where his superior skills are needed". That means we use our heads to keep us out of situations that require us to use both hands and both feet.
It's the "previous route experience" that should be bringing in the big bucks. That's exactly what I'm talking about. A doctor tan read a perf log and tell me how much fuel I should carry, but how many of us would trust a doctor to make a fuel decision? Likewise, will you trust your lawyer to decide a takeoff power setting for you? Hop not, cause he'll just go for whatever is on the paper, without considering any other factors.
Pilots are considered blue-collar workers, i.e. they earn a living with their hands.......The doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc that you compare them to, are white collar workers, i.e. they earn a living with their heads.
What about surgeons? Never hard of a procedure where he cuts somebody open by thinking about it hard enough. I guess he's blue collar too? I'll paraphrase an old saying "the superior pilot uses his superior judgment to keep himself out of situations where his superior skills are needed". That means we use our heads to keep us out of situations that require us to use both hands and both feet.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Check Airman.
Airline pilots ARE considered professionals by outsiders, regardless of whether they use their hands to do the job. It is quite ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Pilots are held in enormously high esteem by passengers.
When a passenger sitting at the back of a 777 hears Nigel's plummy pre-take off announcement, I doubt very much that he is thinking "wow, those pilots don't sound very professional. Could be a couple of blue collar workers for all I know."
As for being unionised, doctors, teachers and other professionals are members of unions too. The role of a professional union is of course different to that of the TUC, but being a member of a union does not mean you're not a professional.
Airline pilots ARE considered professionals by outsiders, regardless of whether they use their hands to do the job. It is quite ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Pilots are held in enormously high esteem by passengers.
When a passenger sitting at the back of a 777 hears Nigel's plummy pre-take off announcement, I doubt very much that he is thinking "wow, those pilots don't sound very professional. Could be a couple of blue collar workers for all I know."
As for being unionised, doctors, teachers and other professionals are members of unions too. The role of a professional union is of course different to that of the TUC, but being a member of a union does not mean you're not a professional.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WOW!!!!!!!!!
4 pages! Jeeze... I only wanted to slap a good read on you all great folks, and BAM! a heated discussion breaks out like a hockey game at a boxing match... Good points.... Long live the dream...
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Around the world.
Age: 42
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haha overpaid pilots.
I fly A320s as FO for an EU country flag carrier to the majority of major EU airports including LHR,LGW,MXP,FCO,MUC,FRA,MAD,BCN,ORY etc.etc. Adding to the fun I fly jets into Africa with nasty NDB only approaches and everywhere in between.
My entire basic wage this year previously was £7312.86 as of today. I made the same instructing PPl's on PA-28s for a year as I earned flying 160 pax in a 60 million dollar jet.
I'm going to have to get rid of my little 1.2litre car at the end of this month because I can't afford to own it. Back to traveling on the bus.
Time to get another career.
I fly A320s as FO for an EU country flag carrier to the majority of major EU airports including LHR,LGW,MXP,FCO,MUC,FRA,MAD,BCN,ORY etc.etc. Adding to the fun I fly jets into Africa with nasty NDB only approaches and everywhere in between.
My entire basic wage this year previously was £7312.86 as of today. I made the same instructing PPl's on PA-28s for a year as I earned flying 160 pax in a 60 million dollar jet.
I'm going to have to get rid of my little 1.2litre car at the end of this month because I can't afford to own it. Back to traveling on the bus.
Time to get another career.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Around the world.
Age: 42
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check Airman,
Yes, that is correct for my basic wage this last year (my first year as an airline pilot). I will not mention the airline though. But yes, a poor wage indeed. Please no speculation about the company, just the advice to wannabes to go into the industry with your eyes open.
Thanks.
Yes, that is correct for my basic wage this last year (my first year as an airline pilot). I will not mention the airline though. But yes, a poor wage indeed. Please no speculation about the company, just the advice to wannabes to go into the industry with your eyes open.
Thanks.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A number of companies pay their first year pilots a nominal wage. I think it's considered a probationary period. What is your expected wage for your second year, if you don't mind my asking?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now now guys - if the conditions, the pay, the (unsociable) hours, the lifestyle, the constantly waking up at 4am - no matter what timezone you find yourself in, the lack of drinks when you arrive, the SLF, the security, the rules etc etc etc are that bad - why don't you leave? make some space for people that DO want to do the job?
No.... i thought not
Truth is, you all love it.. secretly, deep down in those frosted hearts, you couldn't walk away from it, and get a job teaching aviation in colleges, or mowing the grounds at the nearest golf course, or driving that white van/rubbish cart - even if the hours are as unsociable!
come on - admit it to everyone.........
I thought the article was quite cleverly written personally... well found!
No.... i thought not
Truth is, you all love it.. secretly, deep down in those frosted hearts, you couldn't walk away from it, and get a job teaching aviation in colleges, or mowing the grounds at the nearest golf course, or driving that white van/rubbish cart - even if the hours are as unsociable!
come on - admit it to everyone.........
I thought the article was quite cleverly written personally... well found!
