View Poll Results: Was the pilot of this display acting dangerously?
I AM a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,571
46.22%
I AM a professional pilot and I believe NO
360
10.59%
I AM NOT a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,024
30.13%
I Am NOT a professional pilot and I believe NO
311
9.15%
I have no opinion
133
3.91%
Voters: 3399. This poll is closed
Video footage of TAP A310 in extreme low flying turn at airshow
Psychophysiological entity
Is there a good estimate and reasonable consensus of the height of the wingtip at its lowest point? I think there is little doubt that we are seeing it from behind a rise.
Casting aside the legal issues for the moment, he was probably perfectly capable of repeating this-- time and time again without incident, but the wisdom, or lack of, is really the issue. As he turns, I see rooftops in the distance say, 30degrees to the left, pretty much where a damaged aircraft might wallow to.
I don't think for one moment that a wingtip scrape would cause a total loss near the point of impact, but an ensuing systems disturbance might, just might, see him heading towards the housing with a difficult to control airplane.
I think that in the ‘old days', he would have been considered an ace, but in the modern world, he seems to be a maverick. I wonder if there is any middle ground.
Casting aside the legal issues for the moment, he was probably perfectly capable of repeating this-- time and time again without incident, but the wisdom, or lack of, is really the issue. As he turns, I see rooftops in the distance say, 30degrees to the left, pretty much where a damaged aircraft might wallow to.
I don't think for one moment that a wingtip scrape would cause a total loss near the point of impact, but an ensuing systems disturbance might, just might, see him heading towards the housing with a difficult to control airplane.
I think that in the ‘old days', he would have been considered an ace, but in the modern world, he seems to be a maverick. I wonder if there is any middle ground.
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Another video clip, from a different angle
Perhaps this might help display pilots and others to estimate height above the ground etc.
As a PPL, I am following the debate with interest, but not contributing due lack of knowledge/skills/experience.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_...elated&search=
Perhaps this might help display pilots and others to estimate height above the ground etc.
As a PPL, I am following the debate with interest, but not contributing due lack of knowledge/skills/experience.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_...elated&search=
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15 pages of the same arguments and links to the same videos. Is it really necessary to continuously add nothing new?
It's time to close the poll and let this thread slide past page 1.
It's time to close the poll and let this thread slide past page 1.
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Airbus 300 Low pass
Airshows are meant to be exciting and the guys obviously practice the manouvres before they perform .Sometimes things go wrong like the TU 144 crash in the Paris Airshow...all a part of the Air show/display. With regular commercial flights its a different ball game all together...
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New Footage
Hadn't seen this You Tube link before....no we have the low flyby to comment on as well as the turn!!!....Not as my name indicates a professional pilot.....but I think the song 'Things that make you go Hmmmmm!' could apply to this display
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpfTZ6AKVms
This one is new to me, long...I am surprised at how low and visually slow he remained after that slow bank once he goes for altitude during the turn (second pass in the clip).....wow...but keep watching...wow
This one is new to me, long...I am surprised at how low and visually slow he remained after that slow bank once he goes for altitude during the turn (second pass in the clip).....wow...but keep watching...wow
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Display flying is about making the routine appear spectacular, the safe appear risky... It's about staying within limits, yet impressing nonetheless.
Anyone can throw a large aircraft about the sky and take risks. Often, it'll be the last thing they do.
Agreed, the impossibly low calibre of a great deal of the comment here is another nail in the lid of the Pprune coffin.
Could someone direct me to a place where professional pilots may carry on discussions using the marvelous resource that is the www, please?
Anyone can throw a large aircraft about the sky and take risks. Often, it'll be the last thing they do.
Agreed, the impossibly low calibre of a great deal of the comment here is another nail in the lid of the Pprune coffin.
Could someone direct me to a place where professional pilots may carry on discussions using the marvelous resource that is the www, please?
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Kit, I'm not sure I understand your position on this display.
Are you approving of the display and feel it was professional or do you dissapprove?
Another issue that is interesting is would being referred to as " Big Balls " make for a more professional pilot?
If nothing else this display sure received a lot of comment.
Are you approving of the display and feel it was professional or do you dissapprove?
Another issue that is interesting is would being referred to as " Big Balls " make for a more professional pilot?
If nothing else this display sure received a lot of comment.
Display flying is about making the routine appear spectacular, the safe appear risky... It's about staying within limits, yet impressing nonetheless.
Anyone can throw a large aircraft about the sky and take risks. Often, it'll be the last thing they do.
Agreed, the impossibly low calibre of a great deal of the comment here is another nail in the lid of the Pprune coffin.
Anyone can throw a large aircraft about the sky and take risks. Often, it'll be the last thing they do.
Agreed, the impossibly low calibre of a great deal of the comment here is another nail in the lid of the Pprune coffin.
It goes on ad infinitum on the web because most of the punches don't land on somebody's chin. There is just no way to resolve these kind of issues on the web. Suffice it that that the value you get is the News & Rumors, forget about the discussion if it has only opinion in it.
Hell we could of just abreviated the discussion, left the poll and locked the thread
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What a wally
Both captain and first officer should be suspended pending an investigation by the board of TAP and the regulating authority!
Quite simply he (they) were lucky to get away with what they did!
Quite simply he (they) were lucky to get away with what they did!
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Could someone direct me to a place where professional pilots may carry on discussions using the marvelous resource that is the www, please?
Flight deck ? ( in the cruise of course)
Hotel Bar?
Minibus to/from Crew Reporting?
It's a DISCUSSION forum !!!!!!
It comprises of generally fact, fiction and rumours............
What else do you expect? Put more than 2 people in a room to discuss a topic and guess what, you will get 2 or more points of view......
Flight deck ? ( in the cruise of course)
Hotel Bar?
Minibus to/from Crew Reporting?
It's a DISCUSSION forum !!!!!!
It comprises of generally fact, fiction and rumours............
What else do you expect? Put more than 2 people in a room to discuss a topic and guess what, you will get 2 or more points of view......
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The poll says. Was the pilot acting dangerously, I belive not. Was he doing something dangerous then yes. Just as in the same way that a stunt man jumps a motorbike over 20 exploding cars. People have been paying for centuries to watch others do dangerous things, its called entertainment.
Good point Helldog. I agree.
However, if your motorcyclist somehow messes up, he will end up in the pile of exploding cars by himself. There is no danger to the public.
If Mr. Hotshot messes up, he will cartwheel through the fields/spectators, towards the houses in the background. And this at 150 knots!
If you do the math, you will find out that 100 tons of A310 airplane doing 150 knots equals a lot more destructive energy than an F16 (15 tons) doing 300 knots. (at 10 feet at an airshow) And THAT is why this was so irresponsible.
....Besides being more manouvreable in an F16 at 300 knots.
....Besides the fireball that would result from around 15000kg of fuel in the A310
....Besides....
However, if your motorcyclist somehow messes up, he will end up in the pile of exploding cars by himself. There is no danger to the public.
If Mr. Hotshot messes up, he will cartwheel through the fields/spectators, towards the houses in the background. And this at 150 knots!
If you do the math, you will find out that 100 tons of A310 airplane doing 150 knots equals a lot more destructive energy than an F16 (15 tons) doing 300 knots. (at 10 feet at an airshow) And THAT is why this was so irresponsible.
....Besides being more manouvreable in an F16 at 300 knots.
....Besides the fireball that would result from around 15000kg of fuel in the A310
....Besides....
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Having done a bit of that sort of thing (not in a 310) I feel reasonably qualified to post.
It is impossible to vote on this poll - the fly-pasts appear to be skillfully executed and judged, I would assume the Captain has some previous low-level experience from the steadiness of the passes.
No, it does not seem DANGEROUS
Whether it was reckless depends very much on what he was briefed and approved to do. I would assume if there was a drastic breach of 'authorisation' that the matter has been sorted by now inside TAP.
I'd like to talk to the co-pilot......................
It is impossible to vote on this poll - the fly-pasts appear to be skillfully executed and judged, I would assume the Captain has some previous low-level experience from the steadiness of the passes.
No, it does not seem DANGEROUS
Whether it was reckless depends very much on what he was briefed and approved to do. I would assume if there was a drastic breach of 'authorisation' that the matter has been sorted by now inside TAP.
I'd like to talk to the co-pilot......................
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Intentionally operating a transport-category aircraft in any manner that contravenes sops or the POH (etc.) is grounds for instant dismissal (when I am God) and if there are collections of gormless people who have paid to watch, that actually makes it worse.
There is no part of the normal operation of that a/c that condones that type of flying, ergo bingo, moronic.
There is no part of the normal operation of that a/c that condones that type of flying, ergo bingo, moronic.
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xsbank.
As an example of how easy it is to missjudge where your wing tips are in relation to the ground when turning that close to the ground in a large jet may I relate an example.
A few years ago I was at the Airbus factory and was getting sim training from one of the Airbus test pilots.
We were having a little contest to see who could do the fastest circuit in the A320.....we had been getting quicker and quicker with each circuit until the test pilot dragged a wing in a turn and it was all over....the sim is spectacular when you drag a wing...f..... near stopped my heart when it crashed.
Chuck.
As an example of how easy it is to missjudge where your wing tips are in relation to the ground when turning that close to the ground in a large jet may I relate an example.
A few years ago I was at the Airbus factory and was getting sim training from one of the Airbus test pilots.
We were having a little contest to see who could do the fastest circuit in the A320.....we had been getting quicker and quicker with each circuit until the test pilot dragged a wing in a turn and it was all over....the sim is spectacular when you drag a wing...f..... near stopped my heart when it crashed.
Chuck.
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Just got back from the Reno Air Races. Looks like a lot of the great flying we saw there. Performing at air shows is different and the performer is the one who decides how low he feels safe, not the observer.