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Video footage of TAP A310 in extreme low flying turn at airshow

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Video footage of TAP A310 in extreme low flying turn at airshow

Old 18th Sep 2007, 08:19
  #61 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
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Admiral :
But GET OUT of an airline cockpit.
That is the point, this was NOT an airline flight , but a Flight display/demo USING an airliner. Huge difference. If it had been the conclusion of a normal LHR-LIS flight, I would fully agree with you, pax did not pay tfor this. But it was not, and I doubt anyone would be interested to see an A310 doing a perfect ILS during an airshow.
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 08:40
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone remember the B52 that crashed at a practice display in the States some years ago? Reminds me of that .....

Supposedly that pilot had come close to causing a fireball a few times previously and most crews had refused to fly with him....Finally he got his way and caused the disaster that was awaiting.....

Pity he took his crew with him ......

Even though this was a display flight and the aircraft was there to display, it is not a Eurofighter or an F15 and should have been displayed as an airliner with due respect to its size, manouverability etc.

Reckless disregard imho.
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 08:47
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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I still cannot beleive this event. I lifted this still from the video and am not going to even attempt to put a figure on the wingtip clearance. I think its appalling. This is a portrayal of proffessional commercial pilots that the industry could surely do without.


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Old 18th Sep 2007, 08:50
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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I can't see what all this 'extended self' and 'super collosal' nonsense is. It wasn't actually that exciting a stunt anyway save for it's low altitude. If there'd have been some steep turns, high alpha climbs or other exciting manouvres I might have believed there was some superior airmanship involved. Instead all we got was the sort of 5 foot flyby I seem to do most landings without any special training except this guy left himself no way out if anything went wrong.
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 08:56
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 08:58
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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I sure ain't no display pilot,but surely part of the responsibility of those who do such things is to minimise the danger to those on the ground?
On that consideration alone-
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 09:21
  #67 (permalink)  

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More on Bud Holland:

http://www.crm-devel.org/resources/p...e/darkblue.htm

The trick is getting your risk assessment right.

What would Tex Johnston say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rILk6-4SMJQ

"Just don't do it again."

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Old 18th Sep 2007, 09:46
  #68 (permalink)  

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Facts :

About the aircraft
1. The A310-300 carried no passengers.
2. The pilots of the A310-300 where amonst the ones with more hours flying this aircraft in TAP Portugal, one of them being the fleet pilot chief.
3. The manouvres were well prepared in advance and trained on the A310 simulator.

About the field
4. Évora is a small field with some particular aspects. One of them is the fact that the runways is at a higher level than the apron and the other side of the runway is also lower han the rounway itself.

Comments :

a. The participation of the A310-30, the first TAP Portugal participation on the Portugal Air Show ever, happened because the A310-30 is about to leave the fleet.
b. The manouvres were planned to show the full capacity of the airplane but were never intended to put the plane, the pilots or the ublic in risk. (the plane had arrived that morning from Caracas and left soon after the show to Brasil).
c. It's natural that both the public and some spotters thought that the wing was closer to the ground than in reality because they were standing on lower groun and lost the wing tip from sight due to the terrain.
d. Photos taken from higher level, from people standing on top of refuelling truck clearly show that there was no real proximity to terrain.


I had the opportunity to speak with the pilots, latter that day ...

The one thing they should have planned better was taking in account the terrain and the fact that people were standing on lower ground, making the manouvre a little bit higher wouldn't had make a difference on showing the aircraft (and pilots= capability but wouldn't have frighten the public.
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:15
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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4. Évora is a small field with some particular aspects. One of them is the fact that the runways is at a higher level than the apron and the other side of the runway is also lower han the rounway itself.
Well this doesn't make any sense.


d. Photos taken from higher level, from people standing on top of refuelling truck clearly show that there was no real proximity to terrain
Well show me the photos that show the real not apparant wingtip clearance, where are these photos?
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:16
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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This fly past was highly unprofessional and has the hint of a management pilot out for a bit of a jolly.
Nobody would authorize a flight knowing what the intended tip clearance was going to be and the pilots would have no idea where any masts or aerials would be located on the field.
I bet this pilot never does a display again and that TAP management are considering their options very carefully.

App Radar, if you spoke to the pilots tell us that they were not management!
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:18
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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As a humble SLF. This Portuguese machismo stuff is seriously giving me the willies. Are there any sensible Portuguese out there willing to call this craziness for what it is? What is all this St. Exupery style gushing about transcendent experiences?

I've watched this a dozen times and each time I still have my heart in my mouth. Sorry if that makes me a dullard. I do not understand this supposed point about sloping perspectives, which the photographic evidence seems utterly to refute.

People seem to be wandering around inside the display box at random.

The whole thing is shabby.
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:21
  #72 (permalink)  

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Reading the thread helps one find the photos....

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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:24
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Just for comparison another airshow display which was low but in my humble opinion with more regards for safety than the A310 discussed here. The airline has since changed its name to Germanwings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxKjZZDl8PI
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:26
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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This foolhardy display was down to the PIC, NOT the airline - but if I was the chief pilot I think I would ground the pilot pending an investigation and start seriously questioning his responsibility and mental stability.
Well, according to info on airliners.net the PIC was Cpt César Brito, no less than the TAP Airbus A310 fleet last Chief Pilot.
Who is going to fire him?

Perhaps the guy is not a total idiot, but what he showed in Evora that day makes me doubt that very much!
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:27
  #75 (permalink)  

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Bloody hell those BA pilots are hooligans....
Wouldn't find a TAP pilot doing that in a VC-10 would you?
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:30
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Is it immently dangerous - possibly
Did they get away with it - yes

What is it about airshows that result in (hopefully) disciplined pilots pushing the limits beyond what they need to make the show look good? All too often at an airshow someone spears in and occasionally it takes out an innocent party.

I love airshows and I love seeing transport aircraft going through their paces but if this clipped a wing and went in we would all be criticising the drivers.

Cheers

TH
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:39
  #77 (permalink)  
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We have done missed approaches in typhoon conditions from even lower levels with a full load of pax in the back and in screaming crosswinds. What's the big deal about a low level flypast and climbout by an experienced crew and empty aeroplane in good met?
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 10:43
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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photo & video

Found these

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...6252723&size=l

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=et4Aut...elated&search=

don't think they have been posted here.

See the slope on the left side of rwy?

Speed 220km/h, by twr pa man.
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 11:00
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Hotdog, can you confirm to us all that you are comparing this to a normal missed approach?
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 11:06
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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"2. The pilots of the A310-300 where amonst the ones with more hours flying this aircraft in TAP Portugal, one of them being the fleet pilot chief."

-Lots of flying hours (lineflying) alone does not make you a good display pilot.
-Chief pilots and other management pilots are more prone to incidents /accidents. This is inherent to their positions, because in them they don't fly much.
- Whatever they practised in the sim, you cannot judge wingtip height in low turns while flying a big airliner.

Even if they (he) were trained display pilots, this was dangerous and unprofessional and in no way will impress real pilots. And no, I am not a mere button pusher
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