View Poll Results: Was the pilot of this display acting dangerously?
I AM a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,571
46.22%
I AM a professional pilot and I believe NO
360
10.59%
I AM NOT a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,024
30.13%
I Am NOT a professional pilot and I believe NO
311
9.15%
I have no opinion
133
3.91%
Voters: 3399. This poll is closed
Video footage of TAP A310 in extreme low flying turn at airshow
Join Date: Aug 1999
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At every airshow I have participated in, there has been a comprehensive briefing for all pilots which has included many things, including the minimum altitude for the display. I have no idea what the limits were at this show. If it was lower than 200 feet we had to have a special clearance. Maybe he had it. If not, bad show!
Airshows are about pushing the limits beyond what is normal. I do not know what the limits were, so will not pass judgement. Do you know?
Airshows are about pushing the limits beyond what is normal. I do not know what the limits were, so will not pass judgement. Do you know?
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IMHO these videos are shocking. No, I'm not a spotter, just a simple former Navy fighter pilot (some 2000 Hrs on Starfighter 104G), than FO, SFO,CPT on Boing 737,727,747 and in between Airbus 310-200/300, A 300-600ER. Watching some of the videos, perspective high or low, right or left, slope up or down, my blood is freezing.
May be, I lost the kick for the chicken game?
Those fellows of TAP I know, who I met in LIS,OPO or SIM in FRA were responsible professionals and exceptional nice characters.
We should be grateful, that this dangerous mistake did not end in a disastrous fireball.
I’m sure that this Captain will remember his action for the rest of his life. If he upgrades to A340, good luck for his remaining career.
Regards
May be, I lost the kick for the chicken game?
Those fellows of TAP I know, who I met in LIS,OPO or SIM in FRA were responsible professionals and exceptional nice characters.
We should be grateful, that this dangerous mistake did not end in a disastrous fireball.
I’m sure that this Captain will remember his action for the rest of his life. If he upgrades to A340, good luck for his remaining career.
Regards
Last edited by Captain104; 22nd Sep 2007 at 10:45. Reason: spelling
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Chimbu chuckles wrote:
I tend to agree with you on that one. Another pilot would have been extra careful not to exceed himself nor the safety margins if he wanted to keep his job.
I believe that everyone at TAP was happy with the idea that the A310 fleets CP should have the honors of its type farewel. Was this the original mistake? I don't know, but this pilot will never forget what happened that's for sure, as I'm sure other pilots will use this for their own gain.
IMHO no one will dare to volunteer for another airshow anytime soon in these parts. So hurray for safety, which means anoraks will have to travel elsewhere.
GD&L
I think there is plenty of evidence over the decades that the very LAST pilot that should be picked by an airline for a display is the Fleet CP. The main reason why they shouldn't be picked is because, unlike a line pilot, they tend to feel a little invulnerable...who will dress down the boss if he pushes it a bit?
I believe that everyone at TAP was happy with the idea that the A310 fleets CP should have the honors of its type farewel. Was this the original mistake? I don't know, but this pilot will never forget what happened that's for sure, as I'm sure other pilots will use this for their own gain.
IMHO no one will dare to volunteer for another airshow anytime soon in these parts. So hurray for safety, which means anoraks will have to travel elsewhere.
GD&L
Question.
Is it not possible that the display plan had a huge margin of error inbuilt into the programme? As it turned out, this "margin" was called for, thus, because of this built in safety net, the display was "safe". ? Therefore the plan was responsible & demonstrates the saftey margins were appropriate.
Just another view, but would be nice to hear from the pilot, given the controversy.
Is it not possible that the display plan had a huge margin of error inbuilt into the programme? As it turned out, this "margin" was called for, thus, because of this built in safety net, the display was "safe". ? Therefore the plan was responsible & demonstrates the saftey margins were appropriate.
Just another view, but would be nice to hear from the pilot, given the controversy.
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I think 'Captain 104' has it about right.
So the guy did something a bit wonky. Haven't you?
He got away with it. Haven't you? (and me)
Did he learn? like all of us?
What are we? Pricks who slag off our fellow pilots as if they were nothing to us?
Why not ground all a/c and make the accident statistics perfect!
Sheesh!
So the guy did something a bit wonky. Haven't you?
He got away with it. Haven't you? (and me)
Did he learn? like all of us?
What are we? Pricks who slag off our fellow pilots as if they were nothing to us?
Why not ground all a/c and make the accident statistics perfect!
Sheesh!
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I can think of only one mitigating factor, I'm not sure we've considered:
What is the terrain like over his exit path? If the runway is on a plateau, with a gully running off at an angle to the centerline, then perhaps he had more clearance than is evident in the videos. Mind you this is my SPECULATION - but if true, maybe this was better planned than we think.
Not that I approve, but then I've also seen some low-down Spit flybys that make me cringe.
What is the terrain like over his exit path? If the runway is on a plateau, with a gully running off at an angle to the centerline, then perhaps he had more clearance than is evident in the videos. Mind you this is my SPECULATION - but if true, maybe this was better planned than we think.
Not that I approve, but then I've also seen some low-down Spit flybys that make me cringe.
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It's too far to backtrack in this long thread to find the author of "unnecessarily risky and doesn't have a prudent margin for error" so I apologise for the lack of attribution but I think this a fair summary of what in my view was damn poor airmanship. If he was the Chief Pilot, he should be taking tea and biscuits with himself.
It has been mentioned that one of the "permitting" factors was the ideal weather. Did whoever said this see the videos? Quite a bit of thermal activity suggested by the cloud development to be seen there, don't you think?
Regardless of the terrain, trigonometrics or any other attendant consideration, the fact that so many have responded to the poll in a manner critical of the seemingly reckless behaviour of the PF suggests that any public relations benefits flowing from the TAP/Airbus display were negated by the actions of the display pilot. This demonstration might have had the ghouls and thrill-seekers on their toes but it did nothing to instill public confidence in this particular carrier nor the professionalism of those to whom it entrusts the safety of its aircraft and PAX.
GQ.
It has been mentioned that one of the "permitting" factors was the ideal weather. Did whoever said this see the videos? Quite a bit of thermal activity suggested by the cloud development to be seen there, don't you think?
Regardless of the terrain, trigonometrics or any other attendant consideration, the fact that so many have responded to the poll in a manner critical of the seemingly reckless behaviour of the PF suggests that any public relations benefits flowing from the TAP/Airbus display were negated by the actions of the display pilot. This demonstration might have had the ghouls and thrill-seekers on their toes but it did nothing to instill public confidence in this particular carrier nor the professionalism of those to whom it entrusts the safety of its aircraft and PAX.
GQ.
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White Knight
I agree with regard to the Airbus.
However, the Spitfire was designed as a fighter aeroplane, not a lawnmower. I had tremendous respect for Ray Hanna, but he put his prop in the grass too many times leaving NO room for error. As someone else has suggested, what's the point of a display if a person in the second row of the crowd can't see it?
Regards,
rts
I agree with regard to the Airbus.
However, the Spitfire was designed as a fighter aeroplane, not a lawnmower. I had tremendous respect for Ray Hanna, but he put his prop in the grass too many times leaving NO room for error. As someone else has suggested, what's the point of a display if a person in the second row of the crowd can't see it?
Regards,
rts
i think the manouver must be investigated by TAP saftey departement
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Is the "Captain" a current and qualified airshow pilot? I think not.
Is the "Captain" an experienced and current agricultural pilot? I doubt it as even an experienced and current ag pilot would not even do something so stupid and so lack in discipline. It is just not worth it.
Another question. Why risk the lives of the F/O and anyone else on board and an expensive aircraft, by attempting to show everybody that he thinks, he is a good pilot. He may be a good manipulator of controls but the guy has just proved he has nothing between the ears. This sort of act is very often indicative of inexperience. This would normally be a hanging offence in any company, including ag operators.
My advise to him is this. If you want to extend the size of your penis, then do it somewhere else. Sex shops I believe, sell apparatus to do this without risk to life, limb and machinery.
I put my money on the guy being ex-military.
Is the "Captain" an experienced and current agricultural pilot? I doubt it as even an experienced and current ag pilot would not even do something so stupid and so lack in discipline. It is just not worth it.
Another question. Why risk the lives of the F/O and anyone else on board and an expensive aircraft, by attempting to show everybody that he thinks, he is a good pilot. He may be a good manipulator of controls but the guy has just proved he has nothing between the ears. This sort of act is very often indicative of inexperience. This would normally be a hanging offence in any company, including ag operators.
My advise to him is this. If you want to extend the size of your penis, then do it somewhere else. Sex shops I believe, sell apparatus to do this without risk to life, limb and machinery.
I put my money on the guy being ex-military.
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For whatever it is worth, I hold an Airdisplay Authority for flying in airshows in Europe, we have a strictly regulated floor of 200 feet above the display area.
Not only does that floor give us safety for manouvering it also allows the spectators to actually see us.
Not only does that floor give us safety for manouvering it also allows the spectators to actually see us.
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I love to see the big jets thrown around the sky at airshows, but this one was too low. I know you cannot accurately give the altitude of the flypast (I would guess 50 to 80 feet) or wing tip clearance off the ground in the turn (about 12 feet?) but this was irresponsible flying in my opinion (as a non pilot).
He got away with it this time.
He got away with it this time.
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What is the terrain like over his exit path? If the runway is on a plateau, with a gully running off at an angle to the centerline, then perhaps he had more clearance than is evident in the videos. Mind you this is my SPECULATION - but if true, maybe this was better planned than we think.
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Considerable piloting skills demonstrated with the applicable rules
If this was sanctioned by TAP and the Portuguese aviation regulator then I have no problems with the pilot's actions as he was unable to show his considerable skill whilst staying within the rules.
However I think we can take it as read that the pilot would be able to do anything remotely like it in UK airspace which has very comprehensive rules about airshow safety (CAP403). This effectively goes back to a serious crash at Farnborough in the 1950's and is revised frequently in the light of findings from other incidents both in the UK and else-ware.
I think the Portuguese ought perhaps to revisit flying display regulations and consider bringing them in line with best European practise, however at the end of the day it's not for me to say.
To sum it up "considerable piloting skills demonstrated with the applicable rules".
The rules are highly questionable and open to discussion, the pilots actions are not.
However I think we can take it as read that the pilot would be able to do anything remotely like it in UK airspace which has very comprehensive rules about airshow safety (CAP403). This effectively goes back to a serious crash at Farnborough in the 1950's and is revised frequently in the light of findings from other incidents both in the UK and else-ware.
I think the Portuguese ought perhaps to revisit flying display regulations and consider bringing them in line with best European practise, however at the end of the day it's not for me to say.
To sum it up "considerable piloting skills demonstrated with the applicable rules".
The rules are highly questionable and open to discussion, the pilots actions are not.
Last edited by colossus; 22nd Sep 2007 at 21:05. Reason: clarification
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aerobatic is OK, BUT ... !!!
This would have been just nice low pass, if it was Sukhoi 31. I don’t believe this man knew how low the wingtip would be.
It is just happiness that nothing happened.
At the end of the day, it was nice low pass but he risked too much.
Happy landings
It is just happiness that nothing happened.
At the end of the day, it was nice low pass but he risked too much.
Happy landings
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Have I displayed the A310 - yes.
Have I had a role in authorising public displays - yes.
Do I consider this footage to be of a reckless display of over exuberance - yes.
Or did he really just not realise just how reckless this was?
Have I had a role in authorising public displays - yes.
Do I consider this footage to be of a reckless display of over exuberance - yes.
Or did he really just not realise just how reckless this was?
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"Or did he really just not realise just how reckless this was?"
Good piont that. If he was chosen by TAP for the added responsibility of displaying an aircraft in public, then he must have been a senior pilot and high up the food chain. If he did not know how far his wing was from the ground, then this incident is even more disturbing.
Good piont that. If he was chosen by TAP for the added responsibility of displaying an aircraft in public, then he must have been a senior pilot and high up the food chain. If he did not know how far his wing was from the ground, then this incident is even more disturbing.