Turbulence en route to HK?
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Turbulence en route to HK?
Does anyone have information regarding an MK flight to Hong Kong experiencing severe turbulence? Apparently it has been front page news in Mauritius.
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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"No announcement before turbulence"
Thats cause the pilots can't see it coming if its in clear air!
Seatbelt signs on or off decision making is a black art learned only through experience and a pilots sixth sense!
Thats cause the pilots can't see it coming if its in clear air!
Seatbelt signs on or off decision making is a black art learned only through experience and a pilots sixth sense!
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SLF here, very experienced traveller flying man and boy since 1962, no connection to the industry. I always keep my seat belt fastened. I have flown many carriers including US carriers, most recently UK to the US on Continental. I have noticed the tendency on these flights and other US carriers for the pilots to "cry wolf". For the most mildest of turbulence, I get more driving my car, the seatbelt sign goes on and what is more left on for ages after the few "slight bumps" (Continental pilot's words, not mine). By ages I mean in one case up to an hour and a half. Guess what? Passangers are ignoring the sign, going to the loo, walking around, getting hand baggage and so on. I do not find Australian, British and other European or S.E. Asian pilots putting on the seat belt sign unless it is needed, and it very definitely is needed in those instances. Unexpected events can occur, I accept that, but US pilots are endangering passangers if the latter come to believe the seat belt sign is on for no reason. And my experience is that travellers on American carriers are beginning to ignore the sign because absolutely nothing is going on in terms of turbulence for most of the time the sign is on. I am fully aware of the risk averse nature of American business these days so as to prevent law suits (I am a lawyer) hence the cautious nature of pilots to turbulence. However any risk assessment must involve a balancing of interests including the tendency of human beings to think he, the pilot, is "crying wolf".
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PPL here, but speaking much more as very well seasoned SLF (high hundreds of flights).
I keep my belt on whenever in my seat. It is tight for the take off and landings. This is common sense. I don't need to be treated like an idiot by the flight crew - but much of the SLF community want to be and need to be.
If I get caught out when on my way to the loo or when stretching my legs? That is too bad and no-ones fault when clear air turbulence is the cause.
The Wombat
I keep my belt on whenever in my seat. It is tight for the take off and landings. This is common sense. I don't need to be treated like an idiot by the flight crew - but much of the SLF community want to be and need to be.
If I get caught out when on my way to the loo or when stretching my legs? That is too bad and no-ones fault when clear air turbulence is the cause.
The Wombat
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Perhaps the most irritating thing about crossing the pond these days is listening to the constant bleating from US carriers asking for 'ride reports'. Once on VHF, they persist in checking in with a station and including an unasked for ride report in addition to call sign etc.
If they managed to separate turbulence from chop, then they might get more people to adhere to the seatbelt signs. Putting them on without reason just for a few light bumps DOES NOT get people to sit down. But then again, with the litigious culture in the US, perhaps they are covering their ar**s. If that is the reason, then I guess who can blame them.
If they managed to separate turbulence from chop, then they might get more people to adhere to the seatbelt signs. Putting them on without reason just for a few light bumps DOES NOT get people to sit down. But then again, with the litigious culture in the US, perhaps they are covering their ar**s. If that is the reason, then I guess who can blame them.
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flysky,
yes that is the problem. Pax try to sue even for a slight bruise. eg. bumping an arm rest whilst walking up the aisle. If the belt signs are on then no grounds to get money from the company. So most pilots these days cover their *rse . As for the signs being on for long periods well upper air forcasting is still a bit hit & miss. So if the chart says turbulance forcast and you start to feel a ripple it is proberbly prudent re the above to leave signs on untill out of the forcast area.
As said to me a while ago by a solicitor. "Tell me Captain why did you recklessly fly your aeroplane into an area of forecast turbulance endangering my client"
Muppet didn't even know that jet streams existed. It never went any further before anyone asks.
As for the americans, well their pax believe that if it is turbulant it is the pilots fault for not doing their job and routing around. so they go next time by another carrier.
yes that is the problem. Pax try to sue even for a slight bruise. eg. bumping an arm rest whilst walking up the aisle. If the belt signs are on then no grounds to get money from the company. So most pilots these days cover their *rse . As for the signs being on for long periods well upper air forcasting is still a bit hit & miss. So if the chart says turbulance forcast and you start to feel a ripple it is proberbly prudent re the above to leave signs on untill out of the forcast area.
As said to me a while ago by a solicitor. "Tell me Captain why did you recklessly fly your aeroplane into an area of forecast turbulance endangering my client"
Muppet didn't even know that jet streams existed. It never went any further before anyone asks.
As for the americans, well their pax believe that if it is turbulant it is the pilots fault for not doing their job and routing around. so they go next time by another carrier.
Wonder if those unfortunately injured will ever get the message - seat belts, seat belts, seat belts !
Could well have been that some of the injured were in that category too.
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I have heard of few of my captains coming out with something like the following in the PA....
"..even though the seatbelt sign may be switched off, I would recommend you still keep your seatbelt fastened throughout the flight in case of unexpencted turbulence". Personally, if it were me I would prefer to keep it on throughout the flight if CAT is forecast so they can get up at their own risk. Covers my a55 if they get hurt.
"..even though the seatbelt sign may be switched off, I would recommend you still keep your seatbelt fastened throughout the flight in case of unexpencted turbulence". Personally, if it were me I would prefer to keep it on throughout the flight if CAT is forecast so they can get up at their own risk. Covers my a55 if they get hurt.
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"SIC" I was trying to make a point from someone on here saying they should sit when they are told but like i just said, They didn't tell them to sit due to turbulence therefore the innocent child who was severely injured might have been going to the toilet. So i'm saying dont blame the passengers 
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In my part of the world, most of my fellow pax seem to think that when the seat belt light goes off, they must unfasten their seatbelts.
In the words of the old song, "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn?"
Education, it seems, is not all it's cracked up to be
In the words of the old song, "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn?"
Education, it seems, is not all it's cracked up to be
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Lufthansa PA is (in my words) "you are obliged to be buckled up whenever you are in your seat" since about a year. FSB signs do not stay on all the flight, but most people do adhere.
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Best indication of when turbulence will start is to count to ten after you put OFF the seat belt signs. It will stop again within ten counts after you put the sign back ON.
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For those citing human behaviour, the following definition may be of interest
Negative reinforcement
To avoid an unpleasant stimulus, a certain action is learned. e.g. seat belt sign goes on, strap in to avoid being injured.
This is an effective learning strategy.
However, the conditioning can be unlearned, so if the belt sign goes on regularly and nothing happens, people will learn to ignore it.
Therefore, it is very questionable safety practice to leave the sign on for extended periods of smooth flight.
Negative reinforcement
To avoid an unpleasant stimulus, a certain action is learned. e.g. seat belt sign goes on, strap in to avoid being injured.
This is an effective learning strategy.
However, the conditioning can be unlearned, so if the belt sign goes on regularly and nothing happens, people will learn to ignore it.
Therefore, it is very questionable safety practice to leave the sign on for extended periods of smooth flight.