TAM A320 crash at Congonhas, Brazil
I'm watching live news right now. It looks very bad, I'm afraid. For the aircraft to cross the road and enter the TAM cargo reception depot it must have been going at a hell of a clip. The road is about 80m wide and, at that point, some 10m below the surface of the runway. Very close to the same point a BRA 737 skidded to some six months ago.
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DtA, there were two incidents shortly before the runway was closed for resurfacing, and there was a wet weather restriction placed on some heavier types landing.
However, as was noted in the ATR thread, and this one too, the main runway has recently reopened after resurfacing to reduce aquaplaning incidents. It was reopened without the planned grooves, due to pressure over delays in air travel, and has seen two incidents in as many days.
ab
However, as was noted in the ATR thread, and this one too, the main runway has recently reopened after resurfacing to reduce aquaplaning incidents. It was reopened without the planned grooves, due to pressure over delays in air travel, and has seen two incidents in as many days.
ab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mrJgr-4K0M
I think it is the building at 0:42 into this film. Note the short length of the runway and the immediate substantial drop in terrain.
I think it is the building at 0:42 into this film. Note the short length of the runway and the immediate substantial drop in terrain.
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That is the EXACT building..
You can watch the live tv coverage of the accident on:
http://video.globo.com/Videos/Player...O+VIVO,00.html
You can watch the live tv coverage of the accident on:
http://video.globo.com/Videos/Player...O+VIVO,00.html
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does anyone know if this runway slopes downhill?
I would like all information people have in order to make sure that worldwide news organizations are reporting as truthfully as possible
I would like all information people have in order to make sure that worldwide news organizations are reporting as truthfully as possible
For those of you with Google Earth, the TAM cargo depot can be seen at
23-37-10-77S, 46-39-44-18W.
The cargo depot is the L-shaped building; immediately south of it is a Shell station which did not catch fire (writing at 21:00LT).
TAM are holding the pax list back until families informed.
Runway re-grooving, by the way, is scheduled to begin on 25 July when the surface is cured.
The runway does not slope downhill.
Doors to Automatic, spot on.
TAM just informed 175 SOB. 155 pax, 6 crew, 14 TAM deadheading.
23-37-10-77S, 46-39-44-18W.
The cargo depot is the L-shaped building; immediately south of it is a Shell station which did not catch fire (writing at 21:00LT).
TAM are holding the pax list back until families informed.
Runway re-grooving, by the way, is scheduled to begin on 25 July when the surface is cured.
The runway does not slope downhill.
Doors to Automatic, spot on.
TAM just informed 175 SOB. 155 pax, 6 crew, 14 TAM deadheading.
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Is it now safe to say:
the plane was landing towards the north, on the longest runway about 6365feet in length.
the runway was recently resurfaced, with regrooving planned for july 25 after the surface has cured.
the runway was wet from light rain
that once off the runway, the terrain drops about 30feet
that the building hit is a cargo depot and not a gas/petrol station
the plane was landing towards the north, on the longest runway about 6365feet in length.
the runway was recently resurfaced, with regrooving planned for july 25 after the surface has cured.
the runway was wet from light rain
that once off the runway, the terrain drops about 30feet
that the building hit is a cargo depot and not a gas/petrol station
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Bomarc, that's pretty much it, except that the impact was on the left side of the building, which is next to the gas station. Local fire crews are reporting serious concerns about the gasoline stored there, but have that part of the fire under control.
ab
ab
Bomarc, correct. It might be useful to note that it's been raining since yesterday morning, heavily at times.
The gas station is south of the cargo depot. If you've looked at the Google image the building immediately south of the upright part of the "L" is a TAM garage where you can drop your car off and pick it up on return.
Eyewitness accounts, unreliable as they may be, say the aircraft did attempt to take off again. The aircraft had sufficient airspeed not to simply drop straight down onto the road - a taxi passenger describes it as having passed overhead, left wing having hit the TAM cargo buiding and exploding.
The gas station is south of the cargo depot. If you've looked at the Google image the building immediately south of the upright part of the "L" is a TAM garage where you can drop your car off and pick it up on return.
Eyewitness accounts, unreliable as they may be, say the aircraft did attempt to take off again. The aircraft had sufficient airspeed not to simply drop straight down onto the road - a taxi passenger describes it as having passed overhead, left wing having hit the TAM cargo buiding and exploding.
Last edited by broadreach; 18th Jul 2007 at 00:39.
Please note I'm not a pilot, others might respond differently. But it's been blustery since Sunday evening, with constant rain and it's an aircraft-carrier runway so the winds at either end can be funny. But that would not have been the problem; they didn't get near the end, and if the accident started with aquaplaning - as with the Pantanal ATR 42 yesterday - who knows what direction they would have been pointing when they decided on a GA.
At 22:40LT, fire inside the cargo depot still out of control and a high plume of smoke. News services are now cautiously saying survivors unlikely and several casualties in the the TAM building.
Airlines have, apparently off their own bat, retouted CGH flights to GRU and Viracopos.
At 22:40LT, fire inside the cargo depot still out of control and a high plume of smoke. News services are now cautiously saying survivors unlikely and several casualties in the the TAM building.
Airlines have, apparently off their own bat, retouted CGH flights to GRU and Viracopos.
Last edited by broadreach; 18th Jul 2007 at 01:54.
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"there is a notam indicating "down currents" near approach end runway 17...could this have helped bring the plane down as it went over that end while taking off again?"
Actually, the air is turbulent around the airport because it is surrounded by buildings...it is a very central airport, right in the middle of Sao Paulo. Nickname is "airplane carrier" and the usual briefing between the pilots is "touch down maximum at 1000ft runway marks or go-around". Very marginal operation for this airplane in this weather.
Actually, the air is turbulent around the airport because it is surrounded by buildings...it is a very central airport, right in the middle of Sao Paulo. Nickname is "airplane carrier" and the usual briefing between the pilots is "touch down maximum at 1000ft runway marks or go-around". Very marginal operation for this airplane in this weather.
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From an update on Globo news:
"The plane was skidding, it looked like it was taxiing, I never saw something so ugly" said Luís Santos, working for CTS Security, who was in a black Volkswagen at the gas station during the accident. The siding of the vehicle was marked by debris from the plane. "I could hear the increasing roar of the turbine and the plane kept growing. He passed 'liking' right about where the street electric wires are. When it hit [the building?], everything exploded", added Santos.
"O avião vinha derrapando, parecia que ele estava taxiando, nunca vi um negócio tão feio", disse Luís Santos, da empresa CTS de vigilância e segurança, que estava em um gol preto no posto na hora do acidente. A lateral do veículo ficou marcada por estilhaços da fuselagem do avião.
"Dava para ouvir o barulho da turbina aumentando e o avião crescendo. Ele passou 'lambendo' bem na altura dos fios. Na hora que deu a pancada, explodiu tudo", acrescentou Santos.
"The plane was skidding, it looked like it was taxiing, I never saw something so ugly" said Luís Santos, working for CTS Security, who was in a black Volkswagen at the gas station during the accident. The siding of the vehicle was marked by debris from the plane. "I could hear the increasing roar of the turbine and the plane kept growing. He passed 'liking' right about where the street electric wires are. When it hit [the building?], everything exploded", added Santos.
"O avião vinha derrapando, parecia que ele estava taxiando, nunca vi um negócio tão feio", disse Luís Santos, da empresa CTS de vigilância e segurança, que estava em um gol preto no posto na hora do acidente. A lateral do veículo ficou marcada por estilhaços da fuselagem do avião.
"Dava para ouvir o barulho da turbina aumentando e o avião crescendo. Ele passou 'lambendo' bem na altura dos fios. Na hora que deu a pancada, explodiu tudo", acrescentou Santos.
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As FlyingRabbit mentioned, the authorities are stating there are no survivors (a colonel in the fire brigade is quoted as saying there are numerous casualties on the ground as well). From www.folha.com.br
If that is true, with the deaths aboard the plane alone it will be the worst crash in Brazilian history.
This photo shows the drop-off at the end of the taxiway turnoff and runway above Avenida Washington Luis.
Here's an aerial view.
Very sad day in Brazilian aviation.
If that is true, with the deaths aboard the plane alone it will be the worst crash in Brazilian history.
This photo shows the drop-off at the end of the taxiway turnoff and runway above Avenida Washington Luis.
Here's an aerial view.
Very sad day in Brazilian aviation.
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THANK YOU ALL FOR HELPING ME UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON IN BRAZIL TODAY DURING THIS GREAT TRAGEDY.
I think it is now fair to say that a fully loaded TAM AIR Airbus 320 over ran runway 35 left, some 6365 feet long during a rainy evening hitting a cargo structure and perhaps a gas/petrol station.
That the runway was awaiting grooving after repaving...that rain had been continuous since yesterday
that the airport had a similiar incident yesterday involving an ATR 42 turboprop airport
that this airport had been notorious for problems of this nature, so bad that a JUDGE had ordered restrictions on this airport, but he was over ridden by a higher court.
a marginal situation costing the lives of up to 200 people (176 on the plane, more on the ground)
It is possible that the plane was attempting to takeoff again after touchdown.
that winds near the airport are affected by the nearby buildings.
that with wet runway conditions, the airbus 320 at max landing weights is a marginal situation on this length of runway
I think it is now fair to say that a fully loaded TAM AIR Airbus 320 over ran runway 35 left, some 6365 feet long during a rainy evening hitting a cargo structure and perhaps a gas/petrol station.
That the runway was awaiting grooving after repaving...that rain had been continuous since yesterday
that the airport had a similiar incident yesterday involving an ATR 42 turboprop airport
that this airport had been notorious for problems of this nature, so bad that a JUDGE had ordered restrictions on this airport, but he was over ridden by a higher court.
a marginal situation costing the lives of up to 200 people (176 on the plane, more on the ground)
It is possible that the plane was attempting to takeoff again after touchdown.
that winds near the airport are affected by the nearby buildings.
that with wet runway conditions, the airbus 320 at max landing weights is a marginal situation on this length of runway
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that this airport had been notorious for problems of this nature, so bad that a JUDGE had ordered restrictions on this airport, but he was over ridden by a higher court.
Also, an A320 wouldn't be at maximum landing weight for this airport, even on a bright sunny day.
ab