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Delta B767 in multiple bird strike

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Delta B767 in multiple bird strike

Old 10th Jul 2007, 10:57
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Well done crew, and thank goodness the engine(s) gave out enough thrust to complete a safe landing.
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 11:54
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Just to add weight to what others have said ....wasn't there a 4-engined a/c (USAF E3) downed by a flock of gulls not so many years ago?
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 12:18
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Polluted beaches

The aircraft dumped some fuel before returning to FCO

Anybody heading to Rome's beaches for this summer's holidays...see if you can't change your destination!
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 13:12
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The diameter of the fan is around 85 inches.

The average wingspan of a gull is 58 inches. They can weigh up to one and a half kilos.

An encounter with a flock of gulls is no trivial matter
All of the above being factual makes you wonder why in Australia anyway, that pilots are perfectly happy to request/accept ATC approval for high speed (320 knots+) below 10,000ft on departure and arrival...when 250 knots is generally considered acceptable risk world wide..
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 13:34
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Just to add weight to what others have said ....wasn't there a 4-engined a/c (USAF E3) downed by a flock of gulls not so many years ago?
It was a flock of Canada Geese, but yes, a USAF AWACS plane crashed after a massive bird ingestion on takeoff from Elmendorf AFB, Alaska, in 1995. All 24 aboard perished.

Pictures of the scene as well as the results of a few other bird strike mishaps can be seen here

Last edited by HowlingWind; 10th Jul 2007 at 16:16. Reason: Death toll corrected. May they RIP.
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 14:04
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Numerous events of multiple engine damage due to birds similar to the event described in this thread. I don't recall a lot of discussion about these at the time. The design of the engine coupled with the basic training of the pilot to respond to symptoms has made these survivable.

I know that a whole lot of following thead respsonses will now be devoted to what if's.

Typical symptoms involved in similar events as described in subject thread starter , have been an engine surge, vibration heard and felt, slight increase in EGT and thrust loss of up to 10%. In some events one engine was shutdown.
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 15:15
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These are NOT prictures of the 767 concerned but give a very good impression of Bird Strikes on a 67:

http://www.geocities.com/afwjr/767.html

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Old 10th Jul 2007, 15:23
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1 airplane built for the toughest conditions,
4 engines,
1 flock of starlings...

34 dead.
7 severely injured.

Multiple birdhits can kill and such scenarios are definitely not routine.

Last edited by xetroV; 10th Jul 2007 at 16:37. Reason: starlings, not sparrows...
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 15:59
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kingair9,
Re 767 pics, looks like sparrows or starlings or something that size.
As xetroV said .... 1 flock of starlings .... can kill.
I've seen what a single gull can do to a Canberra engine... the first few compressor stages were lying in the bottom of the nacelle in post-it size bits. So an entire flock.....
Do we know where the flock at FCO came from? Gulls rarely go far inland in flocks, unless of course there is a garbage dump nearby.

Last edited by ChristiaanJ; 10th Jul 2007 at 16:42. Reason: spelling
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 16:22
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xetroV
The C130 crash was not sparrows but starlings . A completely different bird when comparing bird strikes.
Starling flock in great numbers and have a higher body mass weight then starlings which in turn cause more damage.
Sparrows do not flock and are therfore not a high risk bird when talking about how much damage certain species cause.

Now if were talking Geese thats a whole new ball game. Pigeons and Gulls and even kestrels are the more common birds that may cause damage if an aircraft hits more then one.

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Old 10th Jul 2007, 16:34
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Oops, you're right! I did mean to say starlings, but my translation was incorrect (English is not my native language). Corrected now.

Now, while starlings are still pretty small birds, a flock of these pretty small birds is clearly no laughing matter. Let alone a flock of seagulls.
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 16:43
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Birds and their ability to down large aircraft

Yukla 27: E3 Sentry drought down by a flock of geese ingested into two engines (on the same side) on take-off from Elmendorf AFB, Alaska. 24 POB; no survivors.

My point being: yes it (birdstrike) might be trained for, but, like a fire, I'd suggest not something welcomed by any pilot and if it's "all in a day's work", they need to move that particular runway...

In any case, it's not the actual birdstrike, it's the potential double flame-out which might follow. Which might not be such good news on a twin...

Last edited by Taildragger67; 10th Jul 2007 at 17:02. Reason: Found a summary of the USAF AIB report
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 17:25
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Originally Posted by Taildragger67
In any case, it's not the actual birdstrike, it's the potential double flame-out....
Not necessarily. A birdstrike in the cockpit can kill.

I know about a DC-3 that collected a gull through the right-hand windscreen. The only reason the FO survived was that he bent down or leaned over for some unrelated reason, litterally a couple of seconds before the impact. He was showered with glass and remains of the bird that hit the panel just behind him.

The earlier set of photos had a helicopter with a smashed windscreen. There it would seem the pilot survived only because he was wearing a bonedome, with the visor down....
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 17:29
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Do we know where the flock at FCO came from?
FCO is on the coast


Gulls rarely go far inland in flocks, unless of course there is a garbage dump nearby.
There are large flocks of gulls permanently resident in Calgary, which is about 600 nm as the gull flies from the coast. Of course, it's the garbage dumps which keep them there.
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 18:20
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Angry

Slinks
"I pay enough money for my flights to expect this!"
I can't believe you said that
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 18:24
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KLM Barcelona

Don't forget the KLM737 which was written off at Barcelona following the nose gear damage by a birdstrike (buzzard) on take off from AMS. No serious injuries as I recall, but a dead 737 nonetheless...
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 18:34
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NOD (post#10) states "that I as an Airline Capt with an "EU Major", on twin jets, do not train for such a scenario. We train for either a single engine failure (a lot!), or occasionally for an "at altitude" double engine failure".
Nigel...Thats relatively easy to fix.
My company has a birdstrike on T/O scenario which results in fire/failure in one engine and off the clock vibration in the other. The results range from a request for immediate return to a statement that we've lost an engine followed by a leisurely flog around the pattern while countless checklists are painstakingly read
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Old 10th Jul 2007, 22:46
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Wasdale....

believe it, I really said it...

"I pay enough for my flights to expect this" - relates to having highly trained pilots capable of handling emergency situations. Are you saying that you dont expect to have a highly trained pilot capable of handling an emergency when you fly as a passenger?

Please keep the comment in context, it was made before NigelOnDraft's post explaining that this situation is indeed not something that is trained for in a simulator. A response to MarcJF's post such as NigelOnDraft gave would have been the ideal response to the post and would have made the situation clear to a mere mortal.

Now I would still say "I pay enough for my flights to expect a highly trained crew who will give me the best possible chance of surviving an abnormal situation". Do you have a problem with that statement?

Slinks
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Old 11th Jul 2007, 01:19
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Brazil's Globo TV Sunday evening (8 July) programme "Fantastico" aired a five-minute clip about a light twin air ambulance pilot hit in the face by a vulture and knocked unconscious last week. He came to and despite losing an eye, managed to land the aircraft. The Portuguese-language clip can be watched at:

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/SaoPaul...8-5605,00.html

If you've the patience, at the end of the clip an airforce pilot being interviewed states that around 500 bird strikes a year are reported in Brazil and that the AF estimate another 1,500 go unreported.

Those of you who fly down here regularly will be aware of the vultures (urubú is the Brazilian term) on approach to GIG (rwy 10) and some other airports. There must be a Sod-related law determining that municipal rubbish dumps be positioned within 3km and in line with the most-used runways, preferably downwind.

Another, earlier, comment in the clip by a pilot flying the same type of light twin is that the immediate reaction on seeing birds ahead should be to pull up, as the birds will usually dive rather than climb away from a threat. Ok in a light plane with good visibility ahead, perhaps not so easy in a heavier aircraft's approach attitude.

As for "all in a day's work", I should hope not. I remember starlings and an Electra.

Last edited by broadreach; 11th Jul 2007 at 01:33.
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Old 11th Jul 2007, 01:42
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slinks....I do.

How have you rationalised what price is or is not ENOUGH?
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