Do Ryanair etc. have ACARS?
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Do Ryanair etc. have ACARS?
Reason I ask is that Zurich Information for example which should primarily be a light aircraft VFR service is regularly swamped by high altitude overflying cheap Brit airline crews asking for (usually) Italian actuals. Don't they have ACARS or is this another cost cutting trick?
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@ SMALLPIECE
..............swamped by high altitude overflying cheap Brit airline crews .
RYAN ainīt cheap Brit - cheap Irish.
The cheap Brit (EZY) is using ACARS. And now??
..............swamped by high altitude overflying cheap Brit airline crews .
RYAN ainīt cheap Brit - cheap Irish.
The cheap Brit (EZY) is using ACARS. And now??
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Just where does it say that ACARS is mandatory?
Air con is only for poofs anyway.
I have also never heard Zurich or any other flight infomation service congested in 30 odd years! Whatever prompted that little rant?
Air con is only for poofs anyway.
I have also never heard Zurich or any other flight infomation service congested in 30 odd years! Whatever prompted that little rant?
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ACARS
At Jet2.com we don't have Acars.
As for your judgement that we swamp the Zurich Info frequency, well I too haven't ever heard it overly used/abused. Maybe you should lobby for some of the Northern Italian Airports to be added to Volmets such as Geneva or Zurich so that we can pick up the destination weather before we start our descent not knowing what we've got coming. These services are there to be used, and I don't see why you should be objecting to us using this facility.
As for your judgement that we swamp the Zurich Info frequency, well I too haven't ever heard it overly used/abused. Maybe you should lobby for some of the Northern Italian Airports to be added to Volmets such as Geneva or Zurich so that we can pick up the destination weather before we start our descent not knowing what we've got coming. These services are there to be used, and I don't see why you should be objecting to us using this facility.
I would be far more worried if crews were NOT proactively getting critical weather information in a timely manner. The FIS frequencies are there precisely for this purpose along with others.
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Provision of Flight Information Service is a basic ICAO requirement for a participating State, so no one can moan about pilots making use of it.
Probably a lot better to ask for weather, etc, on a dedicated FIS station rather than a busy sector frequency ??
Probably a lot better to ask for weather, etc, on a dedicated FIS station rather than a busy sector frequency ??
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Arh, next you will tell us 121.50 is for light aircraft only. that's pretty chocker most of the time with puddle jumpers getting lost in vfr conditions requesting practise qdms,qdrs, position reports , when we all know that your damn well lost
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"Reason I ask is that Zurich Information for example which should primarily be a light aircraft VFR service is regularly swamped by high altitude overflying cheap Brit airline crews asking for (usually) Italian actuals. Don't they have ACARS or is this another cost cutting trick?"
Prat. Of course it's a matter of cost - ACARS equipment, like all other aircraft parts, especially avionics, isn't cheap. There is a useage charge everyime you send a message to ops or get the weather, too. While we'd all like it to be fitted, the costs on a fleet of 150 aircraft (and rapidly increasing) are significant.
However, your insistance that the FI frequencies are for the use of light aircraft only shows your basic lack of airmanship and crass stupidity. The amount of times I change over to an approach frequency at a major airport, which is specifically for the use of aircraft landing there, and can't establish an approach in good time because some **** in a light aircraft is demanding RIS from a large airport's ATC in CAVOK conditions is inumerable, and as was said, Guard seems very congested with incompetent PPL holders getting lost in 20k vis.
Prat. Of course it's a matter of cost - ACARS equipment, like all other aircraft parts, especially avionics, isn't cheap. There is a useage charge everyime you send a message to ops or get the weather, too. While we'd all like it to be fitted, the costs on a fleet of 150 aircraft (and rapidly increasing) are significant.
However, your insistance that the FI frequencies are for the use of light aircraft only shows your basic lack of airmanship and crass stupidity. The amount of times I change over to an approach frequency at a major airport, which is specifically for the use of aircraft landing there, and can't establish an approach in good time because some **** in a light aircraft is demanding RIS from a large airport's ATC in CAVOK conditions is inumerable, and as was said, Guard seems very congested with incompetent PPL holders getting lost in 20k vis.
Last edited by Whippersnapper; 26th Jun 2007 at 07:58.
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Basil small piece ( I love the name, does it refers by any chance to Fawlty Towers' owner reproductive organ ? ) I do not think ACARS was invented to pass on destination weather. It can do that too, but that was not its purpose.
On the Contrary FIS was designed for this sort of info in the first place in order not to surcharge actual CONTROL frequencies. With the ATIS increase this was less and less frequent in the last years , which led to many States wanting to abandon FIS altogether , or not manning it due lack of staff.
As a VFR pilot , you should praise that IFR , overflying charges paying aircraft are making use of FIS ( RYR also do this over Germany and Denmark to ak for Wx at Polish destinations ) as this will be a good reason NOT to close the FIS frequencies in the future.
On the Contrary FIS was designed for this sort of info in the first place in order not to surcharge actual CONTROL frequencies. With the ATIS increase this was less and less frequent in the last years , which led to many States wanting to abandon FIS altogether , or not manning it due lack of staff.
As a VFR pilot , you should praise that IFR , overflying charges paying aircraft are making use of FIS ( RYR also do this over Germany and Denmark to ak for Wx at Polish destinations ) as this will be a good reason NOT to close the FIS frequencies in the future.
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When I flew BOAC (which in terms of young pilot career progression stood for 'Better On A Camel') there was Basil and the joke about 'I work for Cunard' (say it fast with a mouthful of chips). I now fly low level VFR around Europe and only hear weather actual requests from high flying jets on Zurich info, never on Paris, Lille, Reims, London, Scottish etc.. so wondered if there's a reason...
Maybe it's the quality of the Italian Volmets?
Maybe it's the quality of the Italian Volmets?
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which should primarily be a light aircraft VFR service
Not all airfields have digital atis, therefore ACARS can only give you a MET. Not much use in working out which runway is in use if the wind is VRB, hence the need to speak to someone to get an airfield actual.
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There is one problem with most FIS frequencies these days, though. In many cases the frequency protection area was cut down to FL100 over the past years in order to free the frequency for other places. When high flying planes use these frequencies they MAY interfere with another station that uses the same frequency.
American military ATIS frequently used to take 4 or 4 cycles before it could be copied/understood - there was some macho stupidity about trying to read it as fast as possible, it seems. As with clearanes - until they were told "Speak fast = speak twice!".
Use of FIS for FIS? Whatever next...
It seems entirely sensible to me to speak to a FIS provider to obtain arrival Wx and RW/App in use. Puddlejumping spamcans rarely need any service in decent VFR, so what's the problem? In the UK, how often do your hear someone from the LeTouquet Lunch Club droning on in that 'John Major' nerd voice with their life history when you're trying to ask for an updated RPS or whatever....
Mind you, simplified 'short weather' as used by the military might speed things up a bit - "Corleone International, Blue, 240 deg at 10 kt, QNH 1020 HPa, expect vectors ILS 25" or similar?
Use of FIS for FIS? Whatever next...
It seems entirely sensible to me to speak to a FIS provider to obtain arrival Wx and RW/App in use. Puddlejumping spamcans rarely need any service in decent VFR, so what's the problem? In the UK, how often do your hear someone from the LeTouquet Lunch Club droning on in that 'John Major' nerd voice with their life history when you're trying to ask for an updated RPS or whatever....
Mind you, simplified 'short weather' as used by the military might speed things up a bit - "Corleone International, Blue, 240 deg at 10 kt, QNH 1020 HPa, expect vectors ILS 25" or similar?
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Pray tell me how Ryanair Ops keep track of their operation. Most airlines use ACARS to provides Chocks away. Airborne, Landing and Shutdown of each service back to their ops centre at the home base.
More to the point though, in the present age not to have ACARS for weather information, especially when the option means one of the two pilots "out of the loop" on VHF2 (around the TOD) is more than just a cost saving exercise. It directly affects safety.
With regard to I assume the likes of Gerona weather not being available other than by FIS until late on in the sector, what has Ryanair management done to put pressure on the swiss to include, for example, the Genoa TAR on Geneva Volmet and help their flightcrew.
Obviously they are not going to bother to push the Spanish to add to Madrid as the only Spanish ATIS being available on ACARS.
More to the point though, in the present age not to have ACARS for weather information, especially when the option means one of the two pilots "out of the loop" on VHF2 (around the TOD) is more than just a cost saving exercise. It directly affects safety.
With regard to I assume the likes of Gerona weather not being available other than by FIS until late on in the sector, what has Ryanair management done to put pressure on the swiss to include, for example, the Genoa TAR on Geneva Volmet and help their flightcrew.
Obviously they are not going to bother to push the Spanish to add to Madrid as the only Spanish ATIS being available on ACARS.