ePetition re British airside security
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Girtbar, your spelling notwithstanding, I happen to think that the wording is too specific. You should have petitioned that the whole system be reviewed, not just that we be allowed to carry liquids through security.
At the larger airports, where there is seperate chennels for flight crew it should not be too difficult to alter the system. The problem comes at the smaller airports where we share the facility with the pax. Having one rule for them and another for us is not going to work.
I'm afraid the petition is doomed unless you can come up with a workable alternative to the present system.
Having said all that, I have signed!
At the larger airports, where there is seperate chennels for flight crew it should not be too difficult to alter the system. The problem comes at the smaller airports where we share the facility with the pax. Having one rule for them and another for us is not going to work.
I'm afraid the petition is doomed unless you can come up with a workable alternative to the present system.
Having said all that, I have signed!
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Not very bright !
Lightbulbs, As an engineer you have to go through the same "security" as aircrew but you probably only have to do so at Gatwick, LGW is on of the more sensable places to work at with very few jobsworths and a more reasonsble interpritation of the rules.
From a an aircrew perspective I have to put up with a different set of rules at each airport (even within the BAA group!) and getting your baggs on the aircraft is sometimes a major logistical effort when you have to find out what the "system" is at each airport.......... and all this with only an hour before pushback due to the FLT's.
Ask yourself what your stress level would be even before the jobsworth decides that an item that you have with you (not on the banned list) is banned at this airport, undoubtedly some of the security people see this as a sport and irritating a captain is the best sport that they can get, far better than messing about a lowly engineer (I am a LAME so I know about these peoples veiw on status).
The fact is that these pointless irritations have nothing to do with real security as both engineers and aircrew can find a thousand ways of damaging an aircraft IF they so wished.
The stress when working away from base is becoming a real flight safety issue, so I have to ask you "lightbulb" would you want to put you wife and kids on an aircraft that was being flown my a pilot who had just been subjected to the treatment outlined in the last issue of CHIRP?
I think that the aviation world has failed to remember that aircrew stress was a major factor in the accident involving a BEA Trident near LHR .......... so why do I face this stress each time I turn up for work?........... it is to protect the goverment and civil servants from fleet street NOT to protect us from the terrorists.
From a an aircrew perspective I have to put up with a different set of rules at each airport (even within the BAA group!) and getting your baggs on the aircraft is sometimes a major logistical effort when you have to find out what the "system" is at each airport.......... and all this with only an hour before pushback due to the FLT's.
Ask yourself what your stress level would be even before the jobsworth decides that an item that you have with you (not on the banned list) is banned at this airport, undoubtedly some of the security people see this as a sport and irritating a captain is the best sport that they can get, far better than messing about a lowly engineer (I am a LAME so I know about these peoples veiw on status).
The fact is that these pointless irritations have nothing to do with real security as both engineers and aircrew can find a thousand ways of damaging an aircraft IF they so wished.
The stress when working away from base is becoming a real flight safety issue, so I have to ask you "lightbulb" would you want to put you wife and kids on an aircraft that was being flown my a pilot who had just been subjected to the treatment outlined in the last issue of CHIRP?
I think that the aviation world has failed to remember that aircrew stress was a major factor in the accident involving a BEA Trident near LHR .......... so why do I face this stress each time I turn up for work?........... it is to protect the goverment and civil servants from fleet street NOT to protect us from the terrorists.
I Have Control
Join Date: May 2004
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Confirmation of stress and increased risk to passengers and crew.
As Flight Deck often working through MAN, LGW, and recently EDI, GLA and CWL, I can confirm that the stress factor is very real and is high for myself and colleagues going to work. Stress and frustration are risk factors for safety, and it is time BALPA and IPA combined pursue a civil action against the CAA and BAA, along with individual airport operators. This should be undertaken NOW, and aggressively. An immediate effect in lowering the scandalous level of intrusion and upset must be the objective. I am sure there are competent law firms willing to undertake the brief.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Empathy aside,it is also stressful if the secuirty levels are unsatisfactory. It seems that after so many incidents once again we are all becoming complacent again. Surely by now crews should know exactly what is permissable and what is not thus avoiding stress and strain and the airport community has got to get over it.
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Litebulb and others, the current security rules came from the same people that brought you ....
Dodgy dossiers ..... WMDs in 45 minutes ...... tanks at LHR ...... tax credits fiasco ...... HIPs to name just the ones that come to mind at the moment. In all these cases the politicians overruled/ignored the advice of the specialists. The security rules are a political fig leaf to give the impression that effective measures are being taken, when as everyone has pointed out they have no real impact on security and a great impact on safety. Why is it secure for ground staff to hand me my checked-in overnight bag ten yards after Security when I could simply have carried it through? Why use up valuable pre-flight time finding somewhere to check in my bag at some UK airports (but not others) - and NO US or other overseas airports ?
CHIRP is currently emphasising the stress caused by these pointless rules, which were one of (I think) only two occasions when CAA objections were overruled. Gesture politics have no place in civil aviation.
Dodgy dossiers ..... WMDs in 45 minutes ...... tanks at LHR ...... tax credits fiasco ...... HIPs to name just the ones that come to mind at the moment. In all these cases the politicians overruled/ignored the advice of the specialists. The security rules are a political fig leaf to give the impression that effective measures are being taken, when as everyone has pointed out they have no real impact on security and a great impact on safety. Why is it secure for ground staff to hand me my checked-in overnight bag ten yards after Security when I could simply have carried it through? Why use up valuable pre-flight time finding somewhere to check in my bag at some UK airports (but not others) - and NO US or other overseas airports ?
CHIRP is currently emphasising the stress caused by these pointless rules, which were one of (I think) only two occasions when CAA objections were overruled. Gesture politics have no place in civil aviation.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Stress is having Airport and Government Authorities constantly watching over your shoulder.
Stress is having to follow the rules and regulations to the letter (even if you don't agree with them) with the fear of the sack if you don't comply with them.
Stress is dealing with the people who look down on you as if you're a piece of S**t. on a daily basis.
Stress is working in the Aviation Security Industry not having the inconvenience of standing in a queue to have your bag checked.
Get a life
Stress is having to follow the rules and regulations to the letter (even if you don't agree with them) with the fear of the sack if you don't comply with them.
Stress is dealing with the people who look down on you as if you're a piece of S**t. on a daily basis.
Stress is working in the Aviation Security Industry not having the inconvenience of standing in a queue to have your bag checked.
Get a life
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Perhaps someone else could re-word a new petition?
For the same length of time most of us spend looking around the boards on Pprune a new petition could be winging its way to 10 Downing Street.
Any takers?
For the same length of time most of us spend looking around the boards on Pprune a new petition could be winging its way to 10 Downing Street.
Any takers?
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Not so long ago one of our engineers was called off-base. Once there she(!) had to go landside at the small island airfield. On her return to continue with her tasks she was asked to identify herself and upon informing security guard that she was the engineer and they were her tools she was told " that's ok then, as long as you don't go near the planes". Some people are just stupid.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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noodnick,
It seems it's you who should get a life, or at least another job, then again if this petition works you just might be. If you disagree with the rules in place then bloody say something to your superiors and co-workers, we (aircrew) do which is why this is such a hotly debated topic at last.
HZ123, This is what you posted in freight dogs and we are still waiting for a comment from you regarding the last sentence.
It's also clear that you never leave the confines of one airport, as we aircrew do, otherwise you would know that different airports such as non BAA have different rules regarding what can and can't be taken airside as they are free to increase the security level above a set minimum. 
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/airside/
It seems it's you who should get a life, or at least another job, then again if this petition works you just might be. If you disagree with the rules in place then bloody say something to your superiors and co-workers, we (aircrew) do which is why this is such a hotly debated topic at last.
HZ123, This is what you posted in freight dogs and we are still waiting for a comment from you regarding the last sentence.
I think 'fear and stupidity' is a little on the strong side. They assure me that their actions are merely in response to the percieved threat levels. As someone involved albeit on the rim I see a need for more and a far greater level of consistancy. Be in no doubt that that there are plenty out there particularly in the UK plotting as we complain. Futhermore I have little sympathy with crews as they in themselves pose a threat to each other particularly with the ethnic diversity within the UK alone.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/airside/
Last edited by stellair; 10th May 2007 at 21:58. Reason: inclusion of link
Join Date: Mar 2007
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In our company, aircrew flying from our continental bases to the uk are not subjected to anthing like the same 'security' measures but are still flying in UK airspace. It is that type of short sighted approach that we are fighting here not just the "incovenience of being searched" although the stress levels are heightened as a result of security.
Airport profits are going through the roof by confiscating all those explosive coffees and soft drinks at security thus ensuring that everyone has to pay sky high fees. Thus there is absolutely no incentive for the airports to provide staff channels or for the DfT to have a sensible security policy.
just for the record, the Security Staff at my home base are always polite and couteous to me as I pass through with my crew
. I wouldn't like to have their job where you are having to enforce poorly thought out and blatently stupid policies but face big penalties if you don't.
anyway, I've signed up
It is that type of short sighted approach that we are fighting here not just the "incovenience of being searched" although the stress levels are heightened as a result of security.Airport profits are going through the roof by confiscating all those explosive coffees and soft drinks at security thus ensuring that everyone has to pay sky high fees. Thus there is absolutely no incentive for the airports to provide staff channels or for the DfT to have a sensible security policy.
just for the record, the Security Staff at my home base are always polite and couteous to me as I pass through with my crew
. I wouldn't like to have their job where you are having to enforce poorly thought out and blatently stupid policies but face big penalties if you don't.anyway, I've signed up
Psychophysiological entity
Noodnik says
Flying is not just a job, it's a vocation, one in which the average pilot want's to stay...for their entire working life. God knows, for most of them it's cost a fortune to be there.
While I accept you are being a responsible person in not wanting to be out of work, I sincerely hope that you are not burdened with doing the job you're doing for more than a few years.
Sorry Stellair
Got a life, Got a job so why should I whinge on your behalf.
If you don't like or want to follow the rules you get another job.
Got a life, Got a job so why should I whinge on your behalf.
If you don't like or want to follow the rules you get another job.
While I accept you are being a responsible person in not wanting to be out of work, I sincerely hope that you are not burdened with doing the job you're doing for more than a few years.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I signed
But thanks to all crews who have supplied me with water or anything wet whilst airside,madness why I cant carry water airside,yet can have a drink from a schedule or G.A plane.
Very appreciated here at EGPE
Very appreciated here at EGPE
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I see we have passed the 1000 signatures today but I thought with all the strong feelings about this subject we would have gained a lot more by now. And for those people who have had a small dig at Girtbar for his spelling at least he did something which is more than can be said for a lot of the "whingers" out there.
Anyway lets keep it going because as I said in another thread, that started all this, "the anti road pricing" petition made headline news and so should this.
Thanks to all that have signed, quite a few names I recognise.
Anyway lets keep it going because as I said in another thread, that started all this, "the anti road pricing" petition made headline news and so should this.
Thanks to all that have signed, quite a few names I recognise.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Hey terrorists.
Lighten up for goodness sake. Depending on which airport you go through you can achieve anything. They all have different rules. Shoes on here...off there. Chewing gum on socks here....not on socks there... None of them will have a big impact on your activities. And looking on the bright side, if you can't get your 100ml of explosive through, at least you know that you have fricked up the lives of tens of thousands of people. And ten of you can do a litre! Hard to organise? Probably not
Oh. Wait a minute! It's not the terrorists who have fricked up everything. It's the government. It's the TSA, It's the people who are probably making huge amounts of money from investing in companies who profit from anti terrorism measures.
An afterthought. Prime Minister going somewhere. Probably a celebrities pad in the Caribbean. Prime Minister searched? Not too sure on this one, but i suspect not. Flight crew who could destroy the lives of everyone on board if they flew naked? Oh yuss. Seriously searched because there's a celeb on board. Is that nonsense? Maybe it's just me but I think so.
Trust me terrorists. You have done every government a favour. You have made them think they are more needed. Given them an excuse to bomb anyone. And of course, and this is the best one, an excuse to spy on, search, and generally be a pain in the arse to everyone but themselves. (But they will be on the lecture circuit shortly)
Not sure if that rant is sufficient. Will inspect it tomorrow.
Lighten up for goodness sake. Depending on which airport you go through you can achieve anything. They all have different rules. Shoes on here...off there. Chewing gum on socks here....not on socks there... None of them will have a big impact on your activities. And looking on the bright side, if you can't get your 100ml of explosive through, at least you know that you have fricked up the lives of tens of thousands of people. And ten of you can do a litre! Hard to organise? Probably not
Oh. Wait a minute! It's not the terrorists who have fricked up everything. It's the government. It's the TSA, It's the people who are probably making huge amounts of money from investing in companies who profit from anti terrorism measures.
An afterthought. Prime Minister going somewhere. Probably a celebrities pad in the Caribbean. Prime Minister searched? Not too sure on this one, but i suspect not. Flight crew who could destroy the lives of everyone on board if they flew naked? Oh yuss. Seriously searched because there's a celeb on board. Is that nonsense? Maybe it's just me but I think so.
Trust me terrorists. You have done every government a favour. You have made them think they are more needed. Given them an excuse to bomb anyone. And of course, and this is the best one, an excuse to spy on, search, and generally be a pain in the arse to everyone but themselves. (But they will be on the lecture circuit shortly)
Not sure if that rant is sufficient. Will inspect it tomorrow.
Join Date: May 2000
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Signed! The last one of these I signed was the petition to keep the Red Arrows going. Old TB said afterwards that he would keep them going........we'll see if GB says the same! 