View Poll Results: Should airline pilots be tested for alcohol before every flight?
I am a professional pilot and I say YES
79
7.60%
I am a professional pilot and I say NO
616
59.29%
I am NOT a professional pilot and I say YES
64
6.16%
I am NOT a professional pilot and I say NO
240
23.10%
I have no opinion or am happy with the status quo
40
3.85%
Voters: 1039. This poll is closed
VS A340 pilot breathalysed at LHR: WRONGLY ACCUSED
Guest
Posts: n/a
Drugs and the workplace.
I am really trying to quit smoking. Tomorrow is the big day. It is my day off. That is for a good reason.
My workmates have been warned, Friday may be quite nasty.
On this thread it has been said that fatigue, loss of sleep, worry, stress etc can be more of a problem than alcohol, I believe that someone who is activly trying to reduce or quit drinking and smoking may be a bigger risk on the flight deck,
How do you test for that?
Good luck to the accused, hope you make it.....
My workmates have been warned, Friday may be quite nasty.
On this thread it has been said that fatigue, loss of sleep, worry, stress etc can be more of a problem than alcohol, I believe that someone who is activly trying to reduce or quit drinking and smoking may be a bigger risk on the flight deck,
How do you test for that?
Good luck to the accused, hope you make it.....
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really hope this guy is found innocent when all the tests are done and some people here can go and eat humble pie - or better still just keep quiet!
How would you feel if you were the guy in question sitting at home reading all this garbage?
Wait for fact, then comment!
How would you feel if you were the guy in question sitting at home reading all this garbage?
Wait for fact, then comment!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: sURREY
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From Octavius......I think the point B757-200 was not trying to make but asking "Why even take off when one of the 2 humans up the front was not functioning"
All the replies were how the other pilot could fly it alone and it was no big deal, pilot incapacitation is trained in the sim.
In flight emergency, no problem!
The holes in the cheese line up when you have only one pilot up the front AND an emergency.
Do they train that in a sim?
Yes they do train for that in the sim....
All the replies were how the other pilot could fly it alone and it was no big deal, pilot incapacitation is trained in the sim.
In flight emergency, no problem!
The holes in the cheese line up when you have only one pilot up the front AND an emergency.
Do they train that in a sim?
Yes they do train for that in the sim....
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Octavius
Having read all 3 of your posts, I'm not sure what it is you're trying to achieve.
I notice you're newly registered. May I recommend the Jetblast forum? I'm sure you'd enjoy it.
Or, if you'd like to discuss the finer points of emergency procedures with B757-200, you'll find him in Spotters' Corner.
You might even be able to help him with his most recent question:
He says (I quote) "they would both look great in my room!"
FL
Having read all 3 of your posts, I'm not sure what it is you're trying to achieve.
I notice you're newly registered. May I recommend the Jetblast forum? I'm sure you'd enjoy it.
Or, if you'd like to discuss the finer points of emergency procedures with B757-200, you'll find him in Spotters' Corner.
You might even be able to help him with his most recent question:
WANTED: A320 & 737 parts
Does anyone know where i could find.... An Airbus A320 Overwing Emergency exit and/or a Boeing 737 FMC (3/4 or 500 series). I also need these to be cheap as-well because Air Salvage International (ASI) gave me an estimate for an overwing exit for £20,000!.
Does anyone know where i could find.... An Airbus A320 Overwing Emergency exit and/or a Boeing 737 FMC (3/4 or 500 series). I also need these to be cheap as-well because Air Salvage International (ASI) gave me an estimate for an overwing exit for £20,000!.
FL
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for your answers.
Captb747
That is good to know. A training scenario where the PIC is incapacitated and then the instructor cripples the aircraft also. I great confidence boost for a low hours F/O when he gets the sim down safe.
Flying Lawyer
Thanks for the advice, I will try spotters corner and Jet Blast.
Yes they do train for that in the sim....
Flying Lawyer
Thanks for the advice, I will try spotters corner and Jet Blast.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: london/UK
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FlapsOne
I have just re read the entire thread. No one has said he is guilty, not once. There have been expressions of hope that, IF he is found guilty, there should be serious sanctions. Balancing that there have also been expressions of hope that he is found to be innocent, or if convicted, gets some form of help.
I have just re read the entire thread. No one has said he is guilty, not once. There have been expressions of hope that, IF he is found guilty, there should be serious sanctions. Balancing that there have also been expressions of hope that he is found to be innocent, or if convicted, gets some form of help.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bjcc
Try reading it again more slowly.
he should damn well know better. If he wasn't caught ... blah blah blah.
Here we go again! This guy should be ok no matter how drunk he was. He can always use the "I was reporting sick on the radio" defence or the "I was going to report sick before V1" defence. Should not be a problem.
Thank god for the Security staff!
it was a foolish and iresponsible thing to do
the Security staff do seem to be very competent at assessing the fitness of crews to fly though don't they? Shame the crews aren't!
There may be more but they'll do.
It's funny how people who don't know the first thing about flying and people who got a chip about pilots always come out of the woodwork to give us the 'benefit' of their opinions on these threads.
The "expressions of hope that, IF he is found guilty, there should be serious sanctions" ain't much better.
Beats me how anyone can say "I hope he looses his license, permanently" or "I hope they throw the book at him" if he's found guilty when even if he guilty nobody knows if he was a fraction over or way over, and they don't know anything about the guy.
B.
FlapsOne
I have just re read the entire thread. No one has said he is guilty, not once.
I have just re read the entire thread. No one has said he is guilty, not once.
he should damn well know better. If he wasn't caught ... blah blah blah.
Here we go again! This guy should be ok no matter how drunk he was. He can always use the "I was reporting sick on the radio" defence or the "I was going to report sick before V1" defence. Should not be a problem.
Thank god for the Security staff!
it was a foolish and iresponsible thing to do
the Security staff do seem to be very competent at assessing the fitness of crews to fly though don't they? Shame the crews aren't!
There may be more but they'll do.
It's funny how people who don't know the first thing about flying and people who got a chip about pilots always come out of the woodwork to give us the 'benefit' of their opinions on these threads.
The "expressions of hope that, IF he is found guilty, there should be serious sanctions" ain't much better.
Beats me how anyone can say "I hope he looses his license, permanently" or "I hope they throw the book at him" if he's found guilty when even if he guilty nobody knows if he was a fraction over or way over, and they don't know anything about the guy.
B.
Last edited by Bronx; 5th Apr 2007 at 15:26.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: london/UK
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bronx
"He should damn well know better. If he wasn't caught blah blah blah"
Nope, can't find anyone that's said that....Perhaps you could point it out?
"it was a foolish and iresponsible thing to do"
Which is a misquote Bronx, the full text of that paragraph being
"Too many people here are judging too quickly... YES i agree it was a foolish and iresponsible thing to do... but none of us know the reasons behind this, it could be deeper than we think.... i'm not defending anyone."
So, not implying guilt there either.
"Here we go again! This guy should be ok no matter how drunk he was. He can always use the "I was reporting sick on the radio" defence or the "I was going to report sick before V1" defence. Should not be a problem."
You see that as implication of guilt? I thought it was just irony.
"Thank god for the Security staff!"
How does that imply guilt?
"the Security staff do seem to be very competent at assessing the fitness of crews to fly though don't they? Shame the crews aren't!"
Again, a piece of humour perhaps? Certainly not an implcation of guilt.
Quote
"Funny how people who don't know the first thing about flying and people who got a chip about pilots come out of the woodwork to give us the benefit of their opinions on these threads"
Really? Where are those with a chip on thier shoulder? Or is it your assumption because some people don't get down on their knees and worship pilots, they must have an issue with them?
As regards to not knowing anything about flying, possibly you are right, and possibly you are wrong. There have been a number of points made, that are not in total support of this guy, by those that are pilots. But the flying isn't the issue, is it, it's at the moment an alledged breach of law.
On your last point, I agree. But, Pilots/ATCO's/LE's, ie those effected by this legislation are not the only people in the same boat. A Train driver, Police officer, Lorry driver, taxi driver and many other occupations are in the same boat when it comes to driving, get convicted, loose job as well as licence.
They then have to change career. Yes, they will usually get thier licence back after a year, but a return to thier former occupation is usually barred.
In the case of pilots, the Courts do not disqualify them from flying. If a Pilot/ATCO/LE has his licence taken away. it is by the CAA. If it is returned, they can, at least in theory, return to flying as a career.
"He should damn well know better. If he wasn't caught blah blah blah"
Nope, can't find anyone that's said that....Perhaps you could point it out?
"it was a foolish and iresponsible thing to do"
Which is a misquote Bronx, the full text of that paragraph being
"Too many people here are judging too quickly... YES i agree it was a foolish and iresponsible thing to do... but none of us know the reasons behind this, it could be deeper than we think.... i'm not defending anyone."
So, not implying guilt there either.
"Here we go again! This guy should be ok no matter how drunk he was. He can always use the "I was reporting sick on the radio" defence or the "I was going to report sick before V1" defence. Should not be a problem."
You see that as implication of guilt? I thought it was just irony.
"Thank god for the Security staff!"
How does that imply guilt?
"the Security staff do seem to be very competent at assessing the fitness of crews to fly though don't they? Shame the crews aren't!"
Again, a piece of humour perhaps? Certainly not an implcation of guilt.
Quote
"Funny how people who don't know the first thing about flying and people who got a chip about pilots come out of the woodwork to give us the benefit of their opinions on these threads"
Really? Where are those with a chip on thier shoulder? Or is it your assumption because some people don't get down on their knees and worship pilots, they must have an issue with them?
As regards to not knowing anything about flying, possibly you are right, and possibly you are wrong. There have been a number of points made, that are not in total support of this guy, by those that are pilots. But the flying isn't the issue, is it, it's at the moment an alledged breach of law.
On your last point, I agree. But, Pilots/ATCO's/LE's, ie those effected by this legislation are not the only people in the same boat. A Train driver, Police officer, Lorry driver, taxi driver and many other occupations are in the same boat when it comes to driving, get convicted, loose job as well as licence.
They then have to change career. Yes, they will usually get thier licence back after a year, but a return to thier former occupation is usually barred.
In the case of pilots, the Courts do not disqualify them from flying. If a Pilot/ATCO/LE has his licence taken away. it is by the CAA. If it is returned, they can, at least in theory, return to flying as a career.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: london/UK
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bronx
No Bronx, it isn't a waste of time. You made points, I answered them, I also asked for clarrification, which you have not provided. My point remains, no one has said he is guilty, your 'evidence' supporting an opposite view isn't there.
No Bronx, it isn't a waste of time. You made points, I answered them, I also asked for clarrification, which you have not provided. My point remains, no one has said he is guilty, your 'evidence' supporting an opposite view isn't there.
Plastic PPRuNer
There is excellent evidence that driving while under the influence of alcohol is a major contributor for road acccidents and deaths.
Random and on-suspicion breath testing is a proven deterrent and thus justified.
There is no evidence that flying while under the influence of alcohol has been a contributor to commercial accidents and deaths.
There is thus no rationale for random or on-suspicion breath testing.
QED I would have thought.....
PS: There is excellent (incontrovertible) evidence that flying while fatigued is a major contributor to commercial accidents and deaths.
Therefore there is an excellent rationale for mandatory fatigue testing.
Random and on-suspicion breath testing is a proven deterrent and thus justified.
There is no evidence that flying while under the influence of alcohol has been a contributor to commercial accidents and deaths.
There is thus no rationale for random or on-suspicion breath testing.
QED I would have thought.....
PS: There is excellent (incontrovertible) evidence that flying while fatigued is a major contributor to commercial accidents and deaths.
Therefore there is an excellent rationale for mandatory fatigue testing.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm, mandatory alcohol testing and mandatory fatigue testing:
The former would have only the pilot held accountable. The latter would have both the pilot AND HIS COMPANY held accountable.
Ergo, the latter ain't gonna happen. Not during my career anyway...........
The former would have only the pilot held accountable. The latter would have both the pilot AND HIS COMPANY held accountable.
Ergo, the latter ain't gonna happen. Not during my career anyway...........
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Essex
Age: 54
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alchohol testing for pilots? I think not.
Lets get this into perspective guys.
Every year in the UK alone over 3000 people are killed on the roads, countless more given permanent life changing disabilities.
Depending on whose figures you believe between 1 in 5 and 1 in 3 of these are caused by alchohol. thats 500 to 1000 people killed on UK roads, every year, due to alchohol.
In 2005 in total, throughout the whole world, there were 790 fatalites on airlines, none of which were contributed to alchohol.
Why are people trying to invent a problem that doesn't exist?
Lets get this into perspective guys.
Every year in the UK alone over 3000 people are killed on the roads, countless more given permanent life changing disabilities.
Depending on whose figures you believe between 1 in 5 and 1 in 3 of these are caused by alchohol. thats 500 to 1000 people killed on UK roads, every year, due to alchohol.
In 2005 in total, throughout the whole world, there were 790 fatalites on airlines, none of which were contributed to alchohol.
Why are people trying to invent a problem that doesn't exist?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right, enough of this nonsense. From a very very very very good source. Don't even think about questioning this sources reliability. PERIOD , 4.5 on the blood test. Driving limit is 80 and fly limit is 20. End of thread i would suggest and maybe an aplology from some is in order. The Captain in question has been reading this. Brgds
short flights long nights
I hope you are saying that there was nothing wrong........?????
