Female BA pilot wins legal battle for right to work part-time

[Wedge]

According to BBC news.......

[Albert Driver]

It takes great strength of character to stand up against BA. Let me be the first to express my admiration and offer my congratulations.

[fade to grey]

Hmmmm,
Not sure I agree.BA clearly had a policy allowing pilots to work part time once they had reached a required experience level,which this lady had not -why should she be treated any different to the hundreds of male pilots with young children.

I believe she may well have done a disservice to any female pilots following in her footsteps,who may well be viewed in a less favourable light now.

[Airbrake]

This pilot wants to have her cake and eat it, who would blame BA if they never hired a female pilot again.
Is anybody taking bets on how long before she gets pregnant again and throws the towel in for good?
Call me cynical....

[Carnage Matey!]

Originally Posted by fade to grey

BA clearly had a policy allowing pilots to work part time once they had reached a required experience level,which this lady had not -why should she be treated any different to the hundreds of male pilots with young children.

IIRC the experience level argument was only introduced late in the case when BA thought they might lose. The initial rejection was purely for financial reasons. Having flown both long and short haul within BA I would argue that the experience criteria they set was entirely arbitrary.

Originally Posted by Airbrake

This pilot wants to have her cake and eat it, who would blame BA if they never hired a female pilot again.

Or an alternative viewpoint would be that she wants to exercise the rights which European laws afford her and doesn't see why she should be denied those rights simply so that a manager can meet his budget (and bonus) targets.

I personally view this as a great victory for all BA pilots who want part time. We have seen other departments showered with part time, job share and other flexible working options but for the vast majority of pilots who seek that particular option stone-walling is the only response from management. Over 40% of BA cabin crew enjoy some type of flexible working, but only 2% of pilots. The disparity is purely due to the desire of BAs Flight Ops managers to husband every penny they can in order to enhance their own bonuses.

PS If BA never employed another female pilot then they'd probably be sued for sexual discrimination. They initiated the policy of targetting female applicants, they can hardly be surprised when they start having kids!

PPS I particularly enjoyed seeing our managers get caught telling fibs in the tribunal.

[Airbrake]

I, like many others am fed up of people spouting on about their Human Rights. What about her moral obligation to get some time in and pay back her employer? Pilots are not office workers, and to compare us with them is pointless, if you want office terms and conditions you are in the wrong job.

If she had turned up for her cadetship selection interview and told them she wanted to have a kid and be 50% partime in a few years she would have been laughed at and shown the door.

She has got what she is entitled to, but as mentioned previously she has done a huge disservice to a great many female pilots who are trying to get their first job.

[brakedwell]

She needs to work part time if she lives in Wareham!

[Carnage Matey!]

Well I disagree. You may not like the law, but it's the law. BA went out of their way to recruit female pilots, they should have anticipated that some of them might have got up the duff and wanted part time working at some stage. Frankly I am a bit sick of BA telling me that I must be equal to all other staff when it suits them (staff travel, retirement ages) but I must be different to other staff when it suits me (part time working). BA can readliy afford to pay for more part time working for pilots, especially given the amounts of money they regularly hose other departments down with, but they don't want to. If it takes one person to have the balls to sue them then good luck to them. I believe the pilot in question will have in excess of thirty-five years before her retirement age from BA, plenty of time to get some time in and pay back BA (in addition to paying back more than the cost of her training from reduced pay). If you think BA are getting stitched up financially then perhaps you'd lke to start a thread calling for the heads of any former cadets who left BA within 5 years of joining and didn't pay back their full training costs (yes, there are some).

[Ye Olde Pilot]

So how would you feel if you had spent a fortune to get the right to sit r/h only to be bumped of by someone playing the game.

Ban me now Danny but this is unfair for pilots and airlines.

What about old peoples rights

[BusyB]

I don't have a problem with her right of part-time work.

I have a problem with promotion done on "seniority" or "time in the company" as opposed to "working time in the company" .!!

She/he shouldn't be promoted ahead of someone who has WORKED longer for the company.

[Carnage Matey!]

Ironically this rather helps old people too, as if you are a BA pilot with a dependent parent you can now get time off to care for them. Doesn't have to be a child.
I'm slightly confused about this issue of 'being bumped off by someone playing the game'. What game is that? Is it the 'BA employ the person they think best for the job' game, or is it the 'I've got a big pile of debt so I deserve a job more than a cadet', or is it the 'They've got a silver spoon in their mouths they deserve nothing' game? I find it rather peculiar that people think this industry has some unique order of merit in relation to who should get what jobs. If I funded my own training as an accountant should I be aggrieved that a big accountancy firm trained it's own people? Should I expect those in the big firm to be denied part time work because I deserve their job better? Should I be entitled to a better job than them because I am somehow more committed than they are? I certainly can't think of blue chip employer who thinks that way.

BTW BusyB the EU put the kibosh on your proposal several years ago as they say it indirectly discriminates against women, who are more likely to have an interrupted career.

[Cater]

BA female pilot

I agree I think she has not done her self any favours

[Carnage Matey!]

She's just got the 50% part time working she wanted, she has a secure career in BA for as long as she wants it, I think she's done herself (and most other BA pilots) a very big favour! If the objective was to not do herself any favours you'd wonder why she bothered pursuing the case for three years.

[CCLN]

I find this case particularly interesting because, as of now, it has just as much to do with discrimination as it will have to do with equality later. When we say equal, by defefinition it must always be equal to something. So when a man then decides to go part-time to look after his son/daughter/dependent, he must be treated equally to his/her counterpart. In this case the female pilot in question. Consequently the bar will always be getting higher and higher when one person/party or another will be searching for a judgement on fair terms.

[Riverboat]

Carnage Matey - how about emigrating somewhere, where you won't do any further damage to UK Ltd. I suggest Australia. There are too many people in this country arguing for "rights", and it has gone far too far. Trouble is, you just can't see it. So to give the rest of us a better life, and depart in peace.

[Albert Driver]

Ahh! Always a such a pleasure to watch pilots rush in to support one another.
That must be the reason why T&Cs have never been so good.

[Carnage Matey!]

Sure thing Riverboat. All these pesky people talking about 'rights', how on earth is a mill owner supposed to make any money these days? I bet you'd still have kids sweeping the chimneys.

CCLN - the bar stops getting higher when equality prevails in the workplace. It doesn't have to (nor indeed can it) rise continuously. As long as both men and women are treated equally within the organisation then the bar stops. What raises the bar in the first place is European social law. If you want to stop the bar rising then stop the European social law (something our govenment often tries to do), but once the law is in place you'd better make sure you obey it and apply it in a gender equal fashion. (Did I just say 'gender-equal'? )

[CCLN]

Ofcourse the bar will stop at some point. Don't misinterpret my comments as an arguement against equality as I do think the law is neccessary but what may sometimes be granted on the grounds of discrimination later becomes an arguement for equality from which my comment about the bar arose. Like you stipulate, providing that it's a two way street on all fronts the bar will stop.

[Roobarb]

BA- When it comes to recruiting minorities to wear them like a badge - don't ask for what you want, you might get it.

Mrs Starmer - You must be relieved this is all over. Look after your children. Nothing else in the World is more important. You have my personal gratitude for causing the PoD to be vexed.


I'll take on the opposition anyday. It's my management I can't beat.

[Carnage Matey!]

Oooh that reminds me. Some considerable time ago PoD said he'd resign if BA lost this case. Well now it's finally reached a conclusion perhaps we can look forward to some changes at the top.