Body found in landing gear bay on BA B744 @ LAX

[Rainboe]

llondel- that's not funny. if you ordered the Gurkhas to do that, they would just say 'Yessir!' and do it. One of the greatest and mistreated assets of our country. To show I am not just critical, but realistic, I have put my thinking hat on, and the only possible solution I can think is:
<Gear doors that close-off the bay completely when the gear is down>
......apart from beefing up security which is the only realistic answer. Inflatable settees placed in the bay are a recipe for disaster. I would not have one innocent killed by badly operating mechanical deterrents for the sake of these fools. The added expense of this design will be considerable, and they will presumably learn the engineers technique for opening the doors for inspection anyway. As long as we are willing to pay it (I'm not), that's what has to be done (I don't really believe that). For instance, why should we all pay to string a gimongous net under the Golden Gate Bridge? Other ways will be found, so we might as well make life easy (or death, if you get my meaning).
I have no great respect for these people who do this. they are not 'escaping'. They are trying to be financial refugees wanting the bright lights and golden pavements. In doing so they are placing others at risk.

[swordsman]

Dr flight
I would not trust El Al any more than the other companies especially regarding engineering checks.I seem to remember not so long a go a 747 taking off from Amsterdam and 2 of its engines fell off just as it got into the air.It then lost control and flew into a block of flats.
I would not want one of their engineers working on my 1967 beaten up Ford Anglia.

[Rainboe]

Israel is a major source of aeroengineering and maintenance, with an excellent reputation. Any make engine/aeroplane combination could suffer catastrophic failure and take another engine with it disastrously. That crew struggled and did their best in terrible circumstances. I think that comment is unfair.

[llondel]

Rainboe, I was only thinking of Gurkhas because they tend to be small and are expert with their blades. Not someone you'd want to meet on a dark night in a confined space unless you knew he was on your side and that he knew you were. I agree with your mistreatment comments.

As for completely closing the space, I don't know how much movement there is in gear struts during normal operation - I assume they flex a bit on landing and that's why there's clearance space around them (quite apart from any shaping required to allow for the door movement). The trick is to close the gaps in a way that allows for that movement and that isn't easily displaced by someone attempting to climb in.

[BAMRA wake up]

Some context, and an indication of the scale of the tragedy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6213495.stm

'About 6,000 African migrants have died or gone missing on the sea journey to the Canary Islands in 2006, Spanish immigration officials say'.

[swordsman]

Rainboe read my post.I was not referring to the pilots.All companies have had incidents with engineering,you only have to look at DC 10 "s having their engines fall off because of using a fork lift truck to save a few bob whilst in the hangar.There was even someone trying to fly a 1 11 not so long ago hanging out of the window at 17000 feet and 300 miles per hour with no windscreen because of a cock up with the screws not being tight according to this bloke in the pub.

[ok1]

What about some sort of detection system, like IR cameras, installed in the wheel well? These might also be useful to confirm landing gear extension in case the indication fails.

[Jimmy Macintosh]

The only answer is security, these deaths, though unfortunate, are not numerous enough to even warrant looking at an alternative design for the landing gear bays. These are what would be termed acceptable losses.
As is usual in all aircraft incidents it comes down to the engineers who are to blame or who have to find a solution (Lockerbie, "Why aren't planes made bomb proof!"). Let's remove the undercarriage all together and have them land on a trolley attached to a conveyor belt, there wouldn't be any wheel wells for anyone to climb into and the amount of weight saving would be great. These issues lie with security.

[Rainboe]

What about some sort of detection system, like IR cameras, installed in the wheel well? These might also be useful to confirm landing gear extension in case the indication fails.

If you have no idea what a well used undercarriage bay looks like, you will see why not. Everything is coated in mud/grease/squirted hydraulic fluid from occasional leaks/oil. Try putting that on a lens- as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. You students have great ideas on scientific innovations- you need time getting your hands dirty seeing aeroplanes work hard to get some realism. A video camera in a landing gear bay subjected to mud/grease/-65 deg C/+50 deg C will last as long as my Sears garage door opener at 240v.

[primreamer]

Swordsman,
Don't know what your point is. This thread is about the sad death of a stowaway in the wheel well of a B747. "ALL companies have had incidents with engineering". Are you sure? MANY companies and airlines have suffered engineering related incidents that are well documented. Just as there are many companies and airlines that have suffered incidents, and indeed accidents, that were not engineering related in the slightest. Calling into question the abilities of El AL's engineers isn't really contributing much to the discussion about how to prevent this kind of tragedy happening again.

[llondel]

Swordsman,

The BAC111 was flight BA 5390 from Birmingham to Malaga on 10th June 1990. The window blew out because it had been fixed in with screws whose diameter was too small. Not by much, but obviously enough to cause excessive stress.