BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat
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I know that BA manage with just the Purser in charge of the A321, it seems from the part of the post below that it is being questioned, hence why I mentioned it.
Purser - Junior Swap on 747
This initiative, we believe, speaks for itself and the ramifications for the future are catastrophic. We believe this is the beginning of an initiative by Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxx to remove all but two of the supervisory crew onboard their aircraft.
Promotional opportunities are being removed for our members in XX and this we find unacceptable. A clear example of this can be seen in the imposition of a Purser in charge of the A 321 on EuroFleet
This initiative, we believe, speaks for itself and the ramifications for the future are catastrophic. We believe this is the beginning of an initiative by Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxx to remove all but two of the supervisory crew onboard their aircraft.
Promotional opportunities are being removed for our members in XX and this we find unacceptable. A clear example of this can be seen in the imposition of a Purser in charge of the A 321 on EuroFleet
Strike ballot Issue 1: EG300
BA CC will not have support against eg300 until they get their overall absence down to the same as that of other private sector white collar workers - that is, 4 days lost through sickness rather than 16.
Why don't the Union take the lead, so that those who have many years of zero sickness, but need time off for real issues, "shop" the skivers who take time off for nice weather week-ends and Ascot? (and the HKG 7's). That average of 16 days lost must include some staff who are really taking the mickey. It is in everyone's interest to get them exposed to ridicule.
The TUs and the members should defend those that need defending, not those who are skiving. Then, managers should give their attention to where it is deserved, not to long servers who are genuinely ill. The public would then be far more understanding.
Why don't the Union take the lead, so that those who have many years of zero sickness, but need time off for real issues, "shop" the skivers who take time off for nice weather week-ends and Ascot? (and the HKG 7's). That average of 16 days lost must include some staff who are really taking the mickey. It is in everyone's interest to get them exposed to ridicule.
The TUs and the members should defend those that need defending, not those who are skiving. Then, managers should give their attention to where it is deserved, not to long servers who are genuinely ill. The public would then be far more understanding.
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Honestly
It pains me to write this, as I have stated in the past my family's connections with BEA/BA are long and I wouldn't hesitate to use BA on short/Medium Haul services. I too worked at a foreign outstation for BA in the "glory days" and have them to thank for my resulting career in aviation. As a director of a medium sized aviation company (turnover approx GBP15M total air travel spend GBP800K) we no longer use Ryanair because of their stance on industrial relations and we no longer use BA Long Haul because of the service received in Club World or First. To say Virgin is not comparable to BA is to the uninitiated air traveller compete tosh - again it pains me to say it but a straw poll in my office here revealed 80% preferred Virgin's offereing on comparable flights (across 3 classes). Today I have approved 3 Upper Class tickets to Hong Kong, 2 Upper Class tickets to LAX and 2 Emirates First Class tickets to SYD all for travel within the next 4 Weeks and total cost approx GBP45K until some kind of resolution to this dispute is reached no BA flights will be booked at all. What the CC on this forum do not seem to recognise is that this kind of action alienates them from popular support. To say that the dispute is no-one else's business other than the management and unions is also disingenuous, it is very easy to forget that people outside the industry only see the bad press and will blame the strikers for ruining their holiday, business plans etc - look at the ridiculous reactions of some of the interviewees over the fog at Christmas blaming the airlines for the fog and expecting them to use Godlike powers. If this vision of BA continues then I'm afraid I fear the worst but it won't be WW and the top guys that suffer it'll be the people at the coal face. I fully support the workers rights to colectivise and agree that everyone should strive for the best they can get in terms or remuneration and also position but the workers must also recognise their responsibilities to the company they work for and the climate that the company has to survive in.
Cytherea's right.
Cytherea - best post in whole thread. I remember Putting People First - when they meant customers. Current staff seem to want to Put CC F.... or anyone other than customers.
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Ancient
Perhaps that is your perception, it is certainly in my experience not the reality.
I would think a more accurate description would be "management wish to put their bonus first...and be damned with expensive staff"
BA's customers don't give 2 hoots about what the CC get paid, just so long as they get a competitive fare, and they get to the destination on time. So if the CC don't look out for their own interests, no one else will.
I remember Putting People First - when they meant customers. Current staff seem to want to Put CC F.... or anyone other than customers
I would think a more accurate description would be "management wish to put their bonus first...and be damned with expensive staff"
BA's customers don't give 2 hoots about what the CC get paid, just so long as they get a competitive fare, and they get to the destination on time. So if the CC don't look out for their own interests, no one else will.
Thanks, CC, I'm sleeping better now
Very pleased with the vote. Please go on strike on school holidays to cause maximum disruption to the paying public. I'm sure they haven't noticed how reliable BA has become at messing up their holidays
It will make my job a whole lot more secure.
Pity about yours though....
MB, a low-cost driver
It will make my job a whole lot more secure.
Pity about yours though....
MB, a low-cost driver
Paxing All Over The World
The Potter
It's nothing to do with being 'Politically Correct'. It is all about taking the easy option, as you indicate in your next sentence - don't give them an excuse!!
The easy option is to not do anything about lazy staff. It is the same reason that the Inland Revenue go for the small fry, rather than the big fry who can employ tax lawyers. I recall working in the City 20 years ago: on joining a bank, I learnt that one supervisor was very good - all her annual reports said so. In due course, I discovered that she wasn't and started marking her down. Eventually, she left the company because I said what others did not want to say. It was not nice but it had to be done and the process was started with truthful information from other staff
Remember that almost all modern managers lack two things: Experience and Training. They are not trained to be managers, because that costs money and folks no longer stay with a company long enough to make the training pay back. Secondly, they do not have the experience because they are promoted too young - largely because they are cheap and the old ones (i.e. middle aged) have got so fed up that they have bailed at the soonest opportunity!
That is why they are bad managers - no one has selected them carefully, no one has trained them and no one has given them the time to grow up in the company, as much as in life! As I keep repeating, the rest of the UK is in the same boat with many 'managers' lacking the two of three things they need, the other being natural ability.
The story that you give about your wife is very sad and sadly typical of modern 'management'. Incidentally, if you wondered why the UK govt is in such a mess, it's because it is being run by people with the same ethos and lack of everything that are in BA. BUT this strike will fail to improve your conditions and will succeed in weaking the company and, thus, your conditions.
BA is just too politically correct for it's own good. By that I mean they know damn well who the work shy are but they just can't be seen to target them for fear of appearing to victimise the skivers. Instead it's far better to p!ss off your entire crew, demoralise your work force & drive your best staff to look for a far more rewarding career.
The easy option is to not do anything about lazy staff. It is the same reason that the Inland Revenue go for the small fry, rather than the big fry who can employ tax lawyers. I recall working in the City 20 years ago: on joining a bank, I learnt that one supervisor was very good - all her annual reports said so. In due course, I discovered that she wasn't and started marking her down. Eventually, she left the company because I said what others did not want to say. It was not nice but it had to be done and the process was started with truthful information from other staff
Remember that almost all modern managers lack two things: Experience and Training. They are not trained to be managers, because that costs money and folks no longer stay with a company long enough to make the training pay back. Secondly, they do not have the experience because they are promoted too young - largely because they are cheap and the old ones (i.e. middle aged) have got so fed up that they have bailed at the soonest opportunity!
That is why they are bad managers - no one has selected them carefully, no one has trained them and no one has given them the time to grow up in the company, as much as in life! As I keep repeating, the rest of the UK is in the same boat with many 'managers' lacking the two of three things they need, the other being natural ability.
The story that you give about your wife is very sad and sadly typical of modern 'management'. Incidentally, if you wondered why the UK govt is in such a mess, it's because it is being run by people with the same ethos and lack of everything that are in BA. BUT this strike will fail to improve your conditions and will succeed in weaking the company and, thus, your conditions.
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Paxboy............interesting
Agree with a lot of what paxboy has to say, didn't we try to get it right years ago by employing managers who actually flew to look after crew performance? They were not perfect I know, but at least Performance Managers talked our language, or at least the ones I came into contact with did. But they were costly so Mr Bridger I think it was got rid. Just a thought, not much use now I know but sometimes nostalgia for what worked is interesting, or are my old glasses rosy tinted? How many of our current 'managers' have done the job we do?
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Putting People First Again
WHAT A JOKE!!! I dont come to work just for the fun of it you know. Perhaps I should work for nothing just so you can all enjoy competetive fares.
As I said before there are some really silly responses by ignorant peolpe here, it makes me laugh!
The fact of the matter is I NOR ANY OF MY COLLEAGES will give two hoots about all you armchair CEOs and your comments.
Its none of your business what we earn, what we ask for, and what we get.
Stop the hate campaign against people you dont know, or know anything about.
Its all getting a bit pathetic.
As I said before there are some really silly responses by ignorant peolpe here, it makes me laugh!
The fact of the matter is I NOR ANY OF MY COLLEAGES will give two hoots about all you armchair CEOs and your comments.
Its none of your business what we earn, what we ask for, and what we get.
Stop the hate campaign against people you dont know, or know anything about.
Its all getting a bit pathetic.
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Right. And how are BA going to be able to offer them a competitive fare?
, the cost cutting relates to a sum devised by BA management, that must be saved as part of realizing a 10% operating margin. (but Andy S, I guess you knew that because you must have read the information provided earlier on in this thread, and your question was rhetorical wasn't it?
)
From a Customer perspective
A couple of weeks ago, the wife and I decided we would take a trip at Feb half-term to Prague, that's us and 2 kids.
Spent an evening surfing around the likes of all the LCC's that fly from LGW/LTN/STN/BHX/BRS/BOH/EMA to PRG and after all that found that the cheapest fare for the 4 of us (£350) was BA from LHR (also cheaper than BA from LGW on the dates chosen!).
Great I thought - full-service airline, decent flight times, closest airport (although it's a dump!), but good result
However, my enthusiasm should have been tempered by the fact that BA is now probably the Worlds most unreliable major airline (for one reason or another). I should have guessed that our plans would be potentially screwed by something like this.
To all those that are whinging about having to have a "chat" after 10 days off sick - what's the problem? If you are genuinely ill, I say again, what's the problem?
Or, perhaps I've hit the nail on the head.
Be ashamed, and ready to reap what you sowed - the lot of you!
Editted to add some context: The above may seem harsh, but that's the reality of Commercial Organisations (ones that will survive, anyway) in 2007. I say that as an employee of a Co. that has shed 15000 workers in the last 2 years (in the same timeframe, the share price has doubled!). No one likes it, but get used to it!
Spent an evening surfing around the likes of all the LCC's that fly from LGW/LTN/STN/BHX/BRS/BOH/EMA to PRG and after all that found that the cheapest fare for the 4 of us (£350) was BA from LHR (also cheaper than BA from LGW on the dates chosen!).
Great I thought - full-service airline, decent flight times, closest airport (although it's a dump!), but good result
However, my enthusiasm should have been tempered by the fact that BA is now probably the Worlds most unreliable major airline (for one reason or another). I should have guessed that our plans would be potentially screwed by something like this.
To all those that are whinging about having to have a "chat" after 10 days off sick - what's the problem? If you are genuinely ill, I say again, what's the problem?
Or, perhaps I've hit the nail on the head.
Be ashamed, and ready to reap what you sowed - the lot of you!
Editted to add some context: The above may seem harsh, but that's the reality of Commercial Organisations (ones that will survive, anyway) in 2007. I say that as an employee of a Co. that has shed 15000 workers in the last 2 years (in the same timeframe, the share price has doubled!). No one likes it, but get used to it!
Last edited by Wycombe; 17th Jan 2007 at 21:32.
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Cervix,
Just saying what i see. Individual personnal qualifications irrelevant to, or in excess of, the the ones reqd do not make it a skilled job but lets not get further down that lane.It wasnt a dig just a fact.
All you have to do is read that letter. The first thing that will leap out to the casual joe public will be the pathetic nature of claims like " Gatwick breakfast" or staff busses and the like. As for keeping positions to ensure promotion , well, doesnt that smack of the miners or an African parastatal company or the militant seventies in general.
The complexities of crew life will mean nothing to someone who will view the demands in the context of their own existance.They will probably come to the conclusion that you are all primma donnas who have screwed up their day for a free breakfast. = No support.
Speedmarque,
It is other peoples business if you disrupt their lives and want support to do it. You have just managed to convey in that last post a written manifestation of a piss poor arrogant attitude noticable in many BA cabin staff on duty.
Its not jealously that motivates people to point out the faults in your arguement but it does smack of a naked emperor with new clothes syndrome.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Bassa are in it for a privelaged few. The rest of you are screwed if you strike.
Just saying what i see. Individual personnal qualifications irrelevant to, or in excess of, the the ones reqd do not make it a skilled job but lets not get further down that lane.It wasnt a dig just a fact.
All you have to do is read that letter. The first thing that will leap out to the casual joe public will be the pathetic nature of claims like " Gatwick breakfast" or staff busses and the like. As for keeping positions to ensure promotion , well, doesnt that smack of the miners or an African parastatal company or the militant seventies in general.
The complexities of crew life will mean nothing to someone who will view the demands in the context of their own existance.They will probably come to the conclusion that you are all primma donnas who have screwed up their day for a free breakfast. = No support.
Speedmarque,
It is other peoples business if you disrupt their lives and want support to do it. You have just managed to convey in that last post a written manifestation of a piss poor arrogant attitude noticable in many BA cabin staff on duty.
Its not jealously that motivates people to point out the faults in your arguement but it does smack of a naked emperor with new clothes syndrome.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Bassa are in it for a privelaged few. The rest of you are screwed if you strike.
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WHAT A JOKE!!! I dont come to work just for the fun of it you know. Perhaps I should work for nothing just so you can all enjoy competetive fares.
As I said before there are some really silly responses by ignorant peolpe here, it makes me laugh! The fact of the matter is I NOR ANY OF MY COLLEAGES will give two hoots about all you armchair CEOs and your comments.
Its none of your business what we earn, what we ask for, and what we get.
Stop the hate campaign against people you dont know, or know anything about. Its all getting a bit pathetic.
Well, that must a strong contender for the rant of the year award.
Maybe the poster might wish to consider the following
I need to book 10 sectors in the next few days, 8 in C, 2 in F.
Guess who won't be getting the business?
Then multiply that by a few 000 over the next month or two as there are many like me out there.
As I said before there are some really silly responses by ignorant peolpe here, it makes me laugh! The fact of the matter is I NOR ANY OF MY COLLEAGES will give two hoots about all you armchair CEOs and your comments.
Its none of your business what we earn, what we ask for, and what we get.
Stop the hate campaign against people you dont know, or know anything about. Its all getting a bit pathetic.
Well, that must a strong contender for the rant of the year award.
Maybe the poster might wish to consider the following
I need to book 10 sectors in the next few days, 8 in C, 2 in F.
Guess who won't be getting the business?
Then multiply that by a few 000 over the next month or two as there are many like me out there.
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WHAT A JOKE!!! I dont come to work just for the fun of it you know. Perhaps I should work for nothing just so you can all enjoy competetive fares.
As I said before there are some really silly responses by ignorant peolpe here, it makes me laugh!
The fact of the matter is I NOR ANY OF MY COLLEAGES will give two hoots about all you armchair CEOs and your comments.
Its none of your business what we earn, what we ask for, and what we get.
Stop the hate campaign against people you dont know, or know anything about.
Its all getting a bit pathetic.
As I said before there are some really silly responses by ignorant peolpe here, it makes me laugh!
The fact of the matter is I NOR ANY OF MY COLLEAGES will give two hoots about all you armchair CEOs and your comments.
Its none of your business what we earn, what we ask for, and what we get.
Stop the hate campaign against people you dont know, or know anything about.
Its all getting a bit pathetic.
You have just lost any sympathy that any sensible reader on here may have had.
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The complexities of crew life will mean nothing to someone who will view the demands in the context of their own existance
They will probably come to the conclusion that you are all primma donnas who have screwed up their day for a free breakfast. = No support.
As for all the arm-chair CEO's out there, I for one don't believe WW will dismiss 1 member of CC staff...because given the level of support expressed for action, he will effectively destroy the business.
You have just managed to convey in that last post a written manifestation of a piss poor arrogant attitude noticable in many BA cabin staff on duty
Wake up and smell the coffee, Bassa are in it for a privelaged few.
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I think its quite obvious that there will be no public support for the crew if a strike does go ahead, and I think most crew are praying for a negotiated settlement, BUT the unions are stupidly pushing ahead with outrageous demands thinking they have the 96% behind them. Oops!
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People need to look at themselves. Imagine that you went home from work on Friday on one set of terms and conditions. On going back to work on Monday, you were informed that, although you have been received these terms and conditions for some time, they were now felt to be too generous, so they must be reduced.
We as a human race should be striving to work less and get paid more, not the other way round. I am very sure someone will benefit greatly from squeezing employee resource, but I can honestly say, it will be a chalk striped City type on a six figure bonus, not someone flying off on a longhaul night flight. It is these very people you should be directing the growing cost of flying to. They want to fly in absolute luxury and be served by happy smiling people. Make them pay that little bit more and allow the person serving them maintain their benefits
As I have said before, my company have been in negotiations (4 years) to get a curtain put round a couple of seats at the back of our longhaul jets to allow crew to sit down for 1/2hr of privacy, that doesn't involve sitting oon a bar box in a busy galley. My company is wrong; BA current terms and conditions are not wrong.
I fear for the day when one of my colleagues drives home from an exausting duty, has a crash and dies.
We as a human race should be striving to work less and get paid more, not the other way round. I am very sure someone will benefit greatly from squeezing employee resource, but I can honestly say, it will be a chalk striped City type on a six figure bonus, not someone flying off on a longhaul night flight. It is these very people you should be directing the growing cost of flying to. They want to fly in absolute luxury and be served by happy smiling people. Make them pay that little bit more and allow the person serving them maintain their benefits
As I have said before, my company have been in negotiations (4 years) to get a curtain put round a couple of seats at the back of our longhaul jets to allow crew to sit down for 1/2hr of privacy, that doesn't involve sitting oon a bar box in a busy galley. My company is wrong; BA current terms and conditions are not wrong.
I fear for the day when one of my colleagues drives home from an exausting duty, has a crash and dies.