Ireland: Ryanair Fears €20m Pilot Hit
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I flew for one of their branches back in the late 80's and early 90's
Compared to the the worst employer I ever had in a 58 year working life,
Ryanair, was head and shoulders above the rest, for being a good employer.
Compared to the the worst employer I ever had in a 58 year working life,
Ryanair, was head and shoulders above the rest, for being a good employer.
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Stultus est licut stultus facit.
Yes, that’s right Camel Hair, any one silly enough to have an opinion divergent to your own is either uninformed, ignorant or just plain wrong. You never fail to disappoint.
Could it be that loads of money, stable rosters and your own bed every night is appealing to experienced pilots accustomed to the polar opposite? Could it be that a first officer’s job on a shiny new 737-800 is seen as desirable to youngsters starting out upon their careers?
Could it be that the current outrages being perpetrated upon BA by the TGWU is just the latest example of how unenlightened and unwanted unions are in our business?
You might very well think so, Camel Hair, I couldn’t possibly comment.
Could it be that loads of money, stable rosters and your own bed every night is appealing to experienced pilots accustomed to the polar opposite? Could it be that a first officer’s job on a shiny new 737-800 is seen as desirable to youngsters starting out upon their careers?
Could it be that the current outrages being perpetrated upon BA by the TGWU is just the latest example of how unenlightened and unwanted unions are in our business?
You might very well think so, Camel Hair, I couldn’t possibly comment.
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Leo, the opinions that count are that of the Supreme court and of the Labour court. Were you to pay as close attention to your heroes words to the markets as you do to dissing your so-called colleagues, you'd realise that even he expects to lose.
In the mean time, why not share some of your "loads of money" with the likes of your less well-off colleagues that can only afford to sleep in the car at the airport.
It's no where near the 70 - 130 K advertised as the wage for F/O's and Captains. I will be struggling to fly my 900hrs this year and at FR your sector pay makes up a subtantial amout of your take home pay.
Thread Starter
From http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0201/ryanair.html:
Supreme Court to rule in Ryanair pilots' case
Thursday, 1 February 2007 09:40
The Supreme Court will rule later today on whether the Labour Court is entitled to hear complaints by Ryanair pilots against the airline.
Under new legislation introduced in 2004, workers in companies which do not recognise unions can have their grievances investigated by the Labour Court - with or without the participation of the employer in question.
Crucially, that Labour Court determination can now be legally enforced by the Circuit Court.
Ryanair has accused the new legislation of introducing compulsory union recognition by the back door.
The airline has argued the legislation was never intended to apply to what it called 'high-pay multi-nationals' like Ryanair.
The High Court dismissed Ryanair's bid to halt the Labour Court investigations but the airline appealed to the Supreme Court.
The Ryanair case is viewed as a crucial test case in establishing the scope and effectiveness of the new legislation.
Supreme Court to rule in Ryanair pilots' case
Thursday, 1 February 2007 09:40
The Supreme Court will rule later today on whether the Labour Court is entitled to hear complaints by Ryanair pilots against the airline.
Under new legislation introduced in 2004, workers in companies which do not recognise unions can have their grievances investigated by the Labour Court - with or without the participation of the employer in question.
Crucially, that Labour Court determination can now be legally enforced by the Circuit Court.
Ryanair has accused the new legislation of introducing compulsory union recognition by the back door.
The airline has argued the legislation was never intended to apply to what it called 'high-pay multi-nationals' like Ryanair.
The High Court dismissed Ryanair's bid to halt the Labour Court investigations but the airline appealed to the Supreme Court.
The Ryanair case is viewed as a crucial test case in establishing the scope and effectiveness of the new legislation.
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Irish Supreme Court to rule in Ryanair pilots' case
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0201/ryanair.html
The Supreme Court has ruled that the Labour Court is not entitled to hear complaints by Ryanair pilots against the airline.
Under new legislation introduced in 2004, workers in companies which do not recognise unions can have their grievances investigated by the Labour Court - with or without the participation of the employer in question.
The airline had argued that the legislation was never intended to apply to what it called 'high-pay multi-nationals' like Ryanair.
Ryanair had accused the new legislation of introducing compulsory union recognition by the back door.
Originally, the High Court dismissed Ryanair's bid to halt the Labour Court investigations but the airline appealed to the Supreme Court.
The Ryanair case is viewed as a crucial test case in establishing the scope and effectiveness of the new legislation.
The Supreme Court has ruled that the Labour Court is not entitled to hear complaints by Ryanair pilots against the airline.
Under new legislation introduced in 2004, workers in companies which do not recognise unions can have their grievances investigated by the Labour Court - with or without the participation of the employer in question.
The airline had argued that the legislation was never intended to apply to what it called 'high-pay multi-nationals' like Ryanair.
Ryanair had accused the new legislation of introducing compulsory union recognition by the back door.
Originally, the High Court dismissed Ryanair's bid to halt the Labour Court investigations but the airline appealed to the Supreme Court.
The Ryanair case is viewed as a crucial test case in establishing the scope and effectiveness of the new legislation.
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Wrong again Jolly G G. The RTE headline is being changed - now that they have read the judgement. That's the news from another website.
Ryanair will be back in the Labour Court with IALPA in the next few weeks.
Imagine taking such delight at your belief that Ryanair had won a victory over "fellow pilots"!
Ryanair will be back in the Labour Court with IALPA in the next few weeks.
Imagine taking such delight at your belief that Ryanair had won a victory over "fellow pilots"!
Thread Starter
Well now, but there's a thing:
"Ryanair has won its appeal challenging the right of the Labour Court to investigate complaints by the airline's pilots.
The Supreme Court found that procedures used by the Labour Court in its preliminary hearing were flawed, and has ordered a re-hearing of the case, though with full court procedures to ensure that the rights of all parties - including the employer - are protected.
Ryanair has welcomed the ruling, but IMPACT, which took the case on behalf of the pilots, expressed disappointment. But the union welcomed the fact that a re-hearing had been ordered."
Not quite the 'victory' some had thought........
"Ryanair has won its appeal challenging the right of the Labour Court to investigate complaints by the airline's pilots.
The Supreme Court found that procedures used by the Labour Court in its preliminary hearing were flawed, and has ordered a re-hearing of the case, though with full court procedures to ensure that the rights of all parties - including the employer - are protected.
Ryanair has welcomed the ruling, but IMPACT, which took the case on behalf of the pilots, expressed disappointment. But the union welcomed the fact that a re-hearing had been ordered."
Not quite the 'victory' some had thought........
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If it is such a hell to work for FR why dont ya'll get a new job? It should'nt be a problem for you guys with 500+ hrs on 737 to get a new job.
It is partially the pilots own fault since they will take the job, working their ass off for **** all....
If we all get together and refuse to work under certain conditions, FR must reconsider the the terms for pilots.
The same thing with self funded TR. FR and others won't bother paying for the our TR as long as there are hundreds out there willing to pay themselves!!
If everyone said NO, FR would'nt have an option!!
Damn prostitutes!
It is partially the pilots own fault since they will take the job, working their ass off for **** all....
If we all get together and refuse to work under certain conditions, FR must reconsider the the terms for pilots.
The same thing with self funded TR. FR and others won't bother paying for the our TR as long as there are hundreds out there willing to pay themselves!!
If everyone said NO, FR would'nt have an option!!
Damn prostitutes!
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More ryanair spin that got through to RTE methinks. Ryanair will have you believe that the Supreme Court removed the possibility of the Labour Court adjudicating on the dispute. As far as I read it, quite the opposite in fact, the Supreme Court has copperfastened the right of the Labour Court to hear the case by ordering the Labour Court to re-hear the it. So we re-play the game.
The important points so far (and points that fr and its fellow travellers would rather didn't exist):
The Supreme Court has not ruled against the relevant employment legislation.
The Labour Court has the right to re-hear the case.
In terms of the judgement as a delaying tactic, ryanair did win. In terms of the overall battle, they DID NOT. The pilots are neither closer to nor farther away from victory today. But victory remains within our grasp.
I urge all ryanair pilots to remain positive. Despondency plays into the hands of our detractors. Smoke, mirrors and obfuscation are the tactics of those who wish to see us fail Ultimately however truth and justice will prevail.
The important points so far (and points that fr and its fellow travellers would rather didn't exist):
The Supreme Court has not ruled against the relevant employment legislation.
The Labour Court has the right to re-hear the case.
In terms of the judgement as a delaying tactic, ryanair did win. In terms of the overall battle, they DID NOT. The pilots are neither closer to nor farther away from victory today. But victory remains within our grasp.
I urge all ryanair pilots to remain positive. Despondency plays into the hands of our detractors. Smoke, mirrors and obfuscation are the tactics of those who wish to see us fail Ultimately however truth and justice will prevail.
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Blue06,
It must be hard up there in the moral high ground! Have you considered the use of oxygen in them lofty heights to aid in the hard work you are putting in building that church on top of the mountain.
People need to feed their families and will do what they can at the time to make sure they are fed.... Paying for TR isn't a good thing but if it gives access to a job when other jobs are not around then people will do it. It is as simple as that.
If we could get a recruitment ban on all companies that make pilots pay for initial TR's than that would be the best formula! That though would lead to bans on FR, Easy Jet as you pay the TR in your salary after, Monarch, Thompson, Thomas Cook, Aer Arann and a few others to name just a few. Ah yes they don't pay upfront. Pilots only pay for TR's for 3 to 5 years after with salary reductions etc. Plus the added benefit of lower wages in the first 6 months from coming off the CTC program in line training. Maybe around the £150 a week mark is what I had heard of some reports if any money at all. Can you tell me the overall differance? Pilots are still paying for the TR in most of these companies. Are they prostitutes also?
Not forgetting that a huge proportion of FR pilots were already part of the company when TR's were starting to get charged to new joiners so didn't have to pay for TR's.
It must be hard up there in the moral high ground! Have you considered the use of oxygen in them lofty heights to aid in the hard work you are putting in building that church on top of the mountain.
People need to feed their families and will do what they can at the time to make sure they are fed.... Paying for TR isn't a good thing but if it gives access to a job when other jobs are not around then people will do it. It is as simple as that.
If we could get a recruitment ban on all companies that make pilots pay for initial TR's than that would be the best formula! That though would lead to bans on FR, Easy Jet as you pay the TR in your salary after, Monarch, Thompson, Thomas Cook, Aer Arann and a few others to name just a few. Ah yes they don't pay upfront. Pilots only pay for TR's for 3 to 5 years after with salary reductions etc. Plus the added benefit of lower wages in the first 6 months from coming off the CTC program in line training. Maybe around the £150 a week mark is what I had heard of some reports if any money at all. Can you tell me the overall differance? Pilots are still paying for the TR in most of these companies. Are they prostitutes also?
Not forgetting that a huge proportion of FR pilots were already part of the company when TR's were starting to get charged to new joiners so didn't have to pay for TR's.
