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Adam Air lost contact

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Adam Air lost contact

Old 4th Jan 2007, 17:00
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Inasmuch as no productive ELT "hit" has turned up, it may be a VERY long time before the 737 is found. There was a WWII B-24 crash on Celebes (Sulawesi) that remained hidden for 25 years.
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Old 4th Jan 2007, 18:10
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Originally Posted by bomarc
I read an article that indicated that 2 different elt signals were being tracked...one on 121.5mhz and the other on 460 mhz.
AFAIK modern ELTs transmit their primay signal in 406 MHz, but in some models a separate old system lower power 121.5 MHz "homing signal" is provided in the same unit for use by air searches. I think it's extremely unlikely that the two signals could be from PK-KKW and be over 200 km apart (one in Sulawesi mountains and the other in Makassar Strait). A more plausible explanation is that only one or neither is from PK-KKW, but other aircraft/ships/hikers in distress. After all, it's likely that there were many other people in trouble during the storm which claimed even a large ferry, of which BTW, survivors are still being picked up hundreds of km from the sinking location due to high winds and currents spreading the life rafts around.

The 406 MHz signal should provide positive identification though, but considering that they are so horribly confused that the story of what is known changes daily, you must really wonder. Perhaps they are not really tracking any 406 MHz signals but several anonymous 121.5 MHz ones. Who knows. There is also a confusion about two emergency calls from the cockpit, which the local officials reported about originally, but even this is now retracted. Possibly the spokesmen mixed the ELT signals with distress calls to the ATC.

I think this quote wraps up the situation pretty well:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Ionides, managing editor for Flight International Magazine in Asia
Indonesia is a place full of miscommunication, contradictory information and confusion during an accident like this. There is gossip and rumor and you never know what the facts are.
The coordinates for ELT positioning (030 13'92" S 1190 09'17" E) given in the Adam Air site (after you correct the end zeroes which apparently are meant to represent degree signs) point to a location which matches the first reports about a wreckage location 20 km from Polewali.

This is on the west slope of mountain Bulu Kananmanu (grid 50MQM4643) between Sabura and Suprakit and at elevation of about 1,950 ft above MSL.

Also, the same Adam Air bulletin gives mention of
Singapore Satellite Detection Signal
which probably means the COSPAS/SARSAT ground station (LUT) in Singapore. This should mean a reception of an ELT signal which supports at least 20 km accuracy and the search should have yielded results by now.

However, this later article contradicts any possible interpretation of the location information from Adam Air, giving the ELT signal location as
Bambang Karnoyudho, head of the National Search and Rescue Board, told MetroTV Tuesday.

He said the last signal detected by a Singapore satellite indicated the plane was in the water 30 kilometres northwest of Makassar, the capital of South Sulawesi province.
That would put the location in grid 50MQK45 in this map.

Then there is this post about the latest radar contact at 100 nm, 340°, I presume from WAAA, which would put it quite near Bulu Kananmanu. Also had it gone to sea "30 kilometres northwest of Makassar" according to the second ELT location claimed by Bambang Karnoyudho, it would have still been with good radar coverage which contradicts the information from "PK-KAR".
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Old 4th Jan 2007, 18:14
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Originally Posted by Stubenfliege 2
And the authorities do this due the following reasons: ............?
... to give them time to tamper with evidence of institutional negligence. Seems far fetched I know, but one recalls how the previous AdamAir navigation problem incident was dealt with, where most of the evidence was unfortunately never seen by investigators.

pvm
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Old 4th Jan 2007, 22:01
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As mentioned, it may take a long time before they locate the plane. Sulawesi is mostly dense jungle and the roads are very narrow & winding which makes it uncomfortable to travel on, there are areas that are notoriously difficult to reach let alone trying to conduct a thorough search.

Hopefully they find the plane soon.
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Old 4th Jan 2007, 22:39
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Originally Posted by MELT
However it is possible that the ELT may not have transmitted for one of several reasons; ELT submerged in water, co-axial connection to external antenna or external antenna broken in crash, location of ELT in certain mountainous terrain.
What about the reason for the ELT not transmitting due to its unserviceability?
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 00:18
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Can somebody please explain the mechanics of this ELT? I'm under the impression that its reliant on an external antenna, connected by co-ax to the transmitter. If this is the case then it would seem not to be much use in locating an aircraft following a typical impact?
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 01:05
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E.L.T

As AdamAir is "scheduled operator" the ELT/ELBA is NOT mandatory.

But this particular aircraft has one, maybe the previous operator install it.
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 01:22
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Fate of Indonesia Jetliner Carrying 102 Remains Mystery

Thursday , January 04, 2007
FoxNews


MAKASSAR, Indonesia — Indonesia's Adam Air Flight KI-574 took off on New Year's Day with 102 people. An hour into what should have been a short hop between islands, the pilot reported heavy winds. Then the plane vanished, sparking a massive search.

Thousands of soldiers battled rugged jungle terrain, a fleet of aircraft took to the skies and ships scoured the sea for a third day Thursday, spanning a 28,000-square-mile area — roughly the size of Ireland, or the U.S. state of California.

But by nightfall they had found no trace of the Boeing 737.

"We know nothing, whether it disintegrated in midair, flew into a storm or there were technical problems," said Nicholas Ionides, managing editor for Flight International Magazine in Asia. "We just don't know."

A top aviation official said the Adam Air plane that left Indonesia's main island of Java on Monday for Manado on Sulawesi island did not issue distress signals or complain of mechanical problems. The statements contradicted earlier reports and capped days of confusion.

On Tuesday, authorities wrongly claimed they had found the jetliner's charred wreckage and a dozen survivors, causing anguish among families of the plane's passengers, including an American man and his daughters.

Hundreds of relatives have camped at airports and hotels in Manado, which was supposed to be the flight's final destination, as well as Makassar, initially believed to be closer to the crash site.

Many are grappling to understand how a 120-foot-long aircraft could vanish.

"It's impossible. How could a plane disappear for several days without any clues whatsoever," said Junus Tombokan, 53, who was waiting news about his nephew.

Iksan Tatang, the director general of air transportation, said that while the 17-year-old plane did experience severe weather halfway through its two-hour flight, there were no complaints from the pilot about navigation or mechanical difficulties.

But he told reporters Thursday that at least two signals from its emergency beacon — which is activated on impact or when a jetliner experiences a sharp, sudden descent — were picked up by a plane in the vicinity and by a satellite.

Eddy Suyanto, the head of the search and rescue mission, later put the number of so-called Elba signals at six, putting the last one over waters just south of Manado, but did not explain the discrepancy.

With no Mayday distress call, industry experts and pilots said it was possible the plane experienced a sudden, catastrophic mechanical failure, serious navigational problems, or even an explosion.

But Indonesia's transport minister cautioned against making guesses.

"I urge people not to speculate," Hatta Radjasa told reporters. "We must wait until the National Commission for Transportation Safety has located the ill-fated plane."

In the U.S. state of Oregon, the mother of two students who were on the plane with their father said she is holding out hope for them.

"There are times that I'm extraordinarily competent in all this, and times when I break down," The Oregonian newspaper of Portland quoted Felice Jackson DuBois as saying.

Stephanie Jackson, 21, and Lindsey Jackson, 18, were visiting their father, Scott Jackson, 54, Felice's former husband, who lives part-time in Indonesia.

Adam Air is one of at least a dozen budget carriers that have emerged in Indonesia since ex-dictator Suharto was ousted from power in 1998, when the industry was deregulated.

The rapid expansion has led to cheap flights to scores of destinations around the sprawling nation of thousands of islands, but has raised some safety concerns, since maintenance on the leased planes is reportedly poor.

Professional pilots discussing the accident in online chat rooms allege cronyism and political favoritism in Indonesia's aviation sector often undermine public safety.
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 02:03
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Police investigation, President Concerned; It's only a lip service and a joke

Hi Guys.

I'm Indonesian and I already knew what will happen next prior to the accident.

There will be many teams of investigation. The results: "It's because of bad weather"
For the victims family, there are some insurance claim about 100-200 Million Rupiahs (About USD 11,000-22,000)
Cases ended

Adam Air will fly again, like there's nothing happened. In the months, people will forget it. And life goes on.

It's a good tactics to give some empty share of the company to the Chief of Parliament. He will be a bodyguard if something bad happened.

Regards,

ADAMAIR
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 02:18
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Locator Transmitters

Originally Posted by mini
Can somebody please explain the mechanics of this ELT? I'm under the impression that its reliant on an external antenna, connected by co-ax to the transmitter. If this is the case then it would seem not to be much use in locating an aircraft following a typical impact?
ELTs come in 2 varieties - the older 121.5 MHZ unit and the newer 406Mhz type. Both are activated by the G force associated with a crash and both are usually installed in the tail section of the aircraft and will have a remote antenna placed nearby.

The newer units are far more reliable and in addition to a distress signal, include the reg of a downed aircraft and country of origin in a data burst about once every minute for at least 24 hours - often for 50 hours or more.

All ELTs are designed to withstand a moderate impact force, however they are not required to have the same crash and fire protection specs as a DFR would. Your point regarding the antenna and interconnecting coax is a valid one. Engineers consider survivability and transmission line power loss when choosing the location of the antenna.

News reports of both signals being detected seem to indicate that this aircraft has the newer 406mhz ELT which also transmits a lower power signal on 121.5 to assist in locating the crash site by rescue aircraft.
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 03:18
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Then there is this post about the latest radar contact at 100 nm, 340°, I presume from WAAA, which would put it quite near Bulu Kananmanu. Also had it gone to sea "30 kilometres northwest of Makassar" according to the second ELT location claimed by Bambang Karnoyudho, it would have still been with good radar coverage which contradicts the information from "PK-KAR".
The information I received was that at 340/100NM MKS, the aircraft was heading NW. This is so far roughly the only information that has not changed since.
If that was wrong... then why after 4 days, they have not found it and have now started search an area 400NM further northwest from the area?

We're all baffled!

PK-KAR
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 05:44
  #92 (permalink)  
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"Troops, police, villagers and volunteers Friday headed back into the jungle-covered hills near Majene while another search and team in dinghies was scouring the seas close to the shore to search for any bits of the missing plane.
But the main focus has shifted to areas south of Manado, the plane's original destination, after Manado's Sam Ratulangi Airport reported detecting a signal from the plane.

The signal was detected on Monday around the coastal village of Nuangan in Bolaang Mongondow district, some 110 kilometres (68 miles) southwest of Manado but only reported on Thursday.



"We have received a new lead based on the emergency locator beacon aircraft (ELBA), which was detected by the air traffic control at Sam Ratalungi," Air Marshal Eddy Suyanto, commander of the Hasanuddin Air Base at Makassar in South Sulawesi, was quoted as saying in the Republika newspaper."
More at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070105...siaaccidentair
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 10:22
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Originally Posted by arba
As AdamAir is "scheduled operator" the ELT/ELBA is NOT mandatory.
But this particular aircraft has one, maybe the previous operator install it.
An ELT not mandatory for a " scheduled operator" 737 carrying pax ? Whose regulations say that ?
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 15:50
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
An ELT not mandatory for a " scheduled operator" 737 carrying pax ? Whose regulations say that ?
ELT are not required for US part 121 carriers. I remember one being fitted for the first time to an ex-Delta 727 going to a Euro carrier.

GB
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 20:16
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missing plane still unfound in Indonesia


Rescue teams still have no clues of the location of the commercial plane with 102 on board that missed on Monday, Indonesian Transport Minister Hatta Rajasa said.

The Boing 737-400 commercial plane operated by Adam Air Corp., lost contact at 15:07 Jakarta time on Monday, official of the company said.

Singapore's radar has informed two possible spots of the plane crash on land and sea waters, but the minister said that in Makassar city, eastern Indonesia, only one spot on the ground was indicated.

The operation for the searching of the plane is carried out in Tator regency of West Sulawesi province and Mamuju regency of South Sulawesi province, and in the waters of Majene of the island, said Hatta.

Adam Air is one of more than dozens budget airline companies that have established in the country since 1999.

Source: Xinhua
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 20:28
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Indonesian CASR 121

You can find the indonesian regulations online at: http://www.dephub.go.id/udara/dsku/prod01.htm
(english text) and in CASR 121.339 (a) (4) (relative to Extended Overwater Operations), it is required "an approved survival type emergency locator transmitter".
Same text in the parag. 121.353 (b).
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 23:51
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Initial thoughts:
  1. Maybe the aircraft was accidently shot down by the military ... a training exercise gone wrong? Maybe a military cover up? What are the possibilities?
  2. There is always a satellite watching the world from above. They would have a recorded trace of its flight path right? And if a explosion, a heat type cloud, or picture! The US & world commanders are not silly!
  3. Maybe a hijacking took place?
ALL POSSIBLE COVER UPS !!!!

Wot do you think?
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 23:57
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1. Probably not, as there would have been little chance to get the alleged 2 maydays off
2. If they are not 'silly', then why would they have shot it down, and if satellites were tracking all aircraft then why would we bother with ground based radar anymore?
3. Then why wasn't the squawk changed?

Can we stick with the facts????.... Or stick posts like this in JB?
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 00:42
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Originally Posted by helirider
You can find the indonesian regulations online at: http://www.dephub.go.id/udara/dsku/prod01.htm
(english text) and in CASR 121.339 (a) (4) (relative to Extended Overwater Operations), it is required "an approved survival type emergency locator transmitter".
Same text in the parag. 121.353 (b).
The 'survival type' ELT in the Indonesian regulations refers to a portable unit which would be manually activated by crew or passengers and is part of the life raft equipment.

The ICAO has ruled all carriers worldwide equip their aircraft with the 406Mhz ELTs. Carriers were recently given an extension to implement these installations. (I think by Jan 2007)
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 06:21
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U.S. Team Joins Investigation of Missing Indonesian Airplane


Jan. 6 (Bloomberg) -- A team of U.S. transport safety officials have arrived Indonesia to help investigate the disappearance five days ago of a passenger jetliner carrying 102 people.

The Adam Air plane, operated by PT Adam Skyconnection Airlines, was flying from Surabaya in East Java to Manado in North Sulawesi on Jan. 1 when contact was lost with air traffic controllers at Makassar airport.

The six-member team consists of two officials from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, one from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, two from Boeing Co., and one from General Electric Co., said Agung, an officer at the rescue center at Hasanuddin airport in Makassar, North Sulawesi.

``They're here to work with the Indonesian transportation safety committee to support the investigation of the crash,'' Shannon Quinn, assistant press attaché at the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta, said by telephone today.

The Singapore Air Force has sent a team of 22 with a Fokker 50 aircraft to help Indonesian officials search for the missing 17- year-old Boeing 737-400 aircraft.

Authorities have expanded the search to Central Sulawesi and Gorontalo after previously focusing on South Sulawesi. More than 2,000 people including police, military, government officials and volunteers are involved in the search.

``So far, efforts have not been able to locate the plane,'' Agung said.

No Deadline

Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has instructed that every resource be used in the search and has set no deadline for it to end, M. Ikhsan Tatang, the country's director general for air transport, said yesterday.

Vice President Jusuf Kalla today is scheduled to visit Makassar to check search operations for the aircraft.

He will then visit Surabaya to meet survivors of a sunken ferry. Eight people are confirmed dead in the sinking and more than 300 people are still missing. The ferry Senopati Nusantara sank three days before the Adam Air plane went missing.

The plane crash is Indonesia's worst air disaster since Sept. 5, 2005, when a Mandala Airlines jetliner crashed into a residential district in Medan, in North Sumatra province, killing 149 people, including residents.
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