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Cathay Management Captain fails to remove gear pin!

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Cathay Management Captain fails to remove gear pin!

Old 2nd Sep 2001, 10:08
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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S.O.G.

Wasn't that my point? They were not made redundant, they were not guilty of any particular offence, they were arbitrarily dismissed. This was industrial terrorism designed to strike fear into every other pilot. It had exactly the opposite effect and unified the pilot force like never before. Thus taking the art of mismanagement to a level never ever seen before; not even in CX.
Looks like this will drag on for sometime, and the pilots are running out of options.
On the contrary, I believe mgt have no idea where to go next. They bet everything on a pre-emptive strike when they grounded their own airline, blamed the pilots, sacked the 49 guys and issued a new contract. Instead of capitulating more than 1300 pilots (including some non union members) sent in letters rejecting the company offer and re-stating their legal position.

S.O.G. let's pretend you are running CX, what would you do next?

[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: Dismayed ]
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Old 2nd Sep 2001, 11:50
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Nasty, grow a brain! If Capt. D. wanted to cause a disruption, I think it will be something a little larger than going sick in PEN.
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Old 2nd Sep 2001, 16:00
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Red face

As I understand it, the biggest problem the AOA has is to figure out how the company can withdraw from its untenable position without losing what miniscule amount of face it has left....its obviously beyond Barley and his morons.
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Old 2nd Sep 2001, 16:51
  #84 (permalink)  
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Stop Start, I don't see the problem of the current CX managment getting out, without loss of face (and that might not be the only thing they lose) as anyone's (problem) except theirs. They took the first aggressive steps in what they figured would be a quick coup de grace - unfortunately for them, they seriously underestimated the depth of unhappiness, the tenacity, and the focus of the united pilot group.

Management has cost The Swire Group hundreds of millions of dollars needlessly, and achieved exactly ZILCH. If they were smart, they would take stock of the damage and end this waste of money by trying to get their pilots back on side in order to allow Cathay to get back into the business in which they once had THE name - premium passenger airline travel.
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 01:09
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If they were smart (not necessarily their strong point), the CX management would have FIXED (as in permanently fixed) the roster "problem" in the first place.
Then, if the pilots were still STILL unhappy, then .......wet lease from the PRC and terminate the lot. EVERY one of them!
Come to think of it, wet lease may well be.....cheaper from the PRC, less headaches too. That way they do NOT have to put up with the...."we are the BEST" from the present lot.
Better to have handled it "better" from the start. NO doubt about it!

BUT, that was NOT done, so the best option may well be for the CX management to call......PARC Aviation.

Standing by with hard hat firmly ON!!
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 02:08
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411A, O paragon of airline wisdom...

Please tell me what EXACTLY your absurd, dated views of anyone but yourself's position in commercial aviation have to do with the subject line "Cathay Management captain fails to remove gear pin!"

You, sir, are an idiot and should stay away from aircraft, flying bulletin boards and airports...perhaps the geriatric community a few miles south called "Sun City" would better suit you.
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 02:34
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Actually Vonkprop, Sun City is rather further west...
The CX management missed a golden opportunity to nip this "action" in the bud by applying common sense and "fixing the roster problem" before it got out of hand.
NOW, they have a VERY big problem on their collective hands.....and the pilots STILL think THEY are the best (according to whom, I wonder?).
Surely not easy times ahead for either party!
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 02:52
  #88 (permalink)  
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Question

411A, you are CORRECT when you say the rostering should have been fixed long ago - such an easy and inexpensive solution to what has become a costly fight for Cathay Pacific. Probably however an indication of a management that's "not going to be told what to do", and are willing to fritter away the company's bank account to prove it!

Why, 411A, do you consistently refer to PARC Avation with intimations that THEY will be called on to enter into this fracas? It is PARC's policy NOT to become involved in industrial disputes, just as I am sure it is of the other recruiting agencies.

Do you have such bitterness towards other pilots, 411A because your time is up, and you feel envious of those still flying? Perhaps you've been out of flying for too long to be aware of this "new breed" of management that appear to be able to do nothing other than create confrontations with their pilots, in the name of cost cutting, but spending tens of millions of dollars in doing it, even to the point of breaking the company. Unaacountable and irresponsible. Australia 1989, was a prime example of this.
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 05:34
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Hey there Kaptin, the Australian fiasco of 1989 was surely not the start of adversarial employer-employee relations...simply put, just plain stupid on the pilots' part, but that is another time and storey.
The CX "problem" as I see it is management hell-bent on getting their way and pilots' equally unable to agree to any agenda. What with the labor laws the way they are in HKG, suspect that it is all over for the CX pilots but the shouting. Sad but true.
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 11:17
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I think Stopstart is very close to the truth in his comment above.

The parallels to Australia 1989 are there, but of course, with differences.

The way I see it, the current management team 'tendered' for the job in the promise that they would crush the pilot group (if not in as many words) and relieve the Swire Group or the PRC (or whoever it is at the very top these days in CX) of a perceived problem with a too high wages and conditions package.

Unfortunately, the fact that (just as in Oz in 89), the victory hasn't been quite as cleancut and total as their imported 'experts' with their computer predictions may have assured them it would be - and that leaves them, the management team, between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

Anything less than a TOTAL victory over the pilots will be seen as a failure to deliver on their promises, so they are now in the position where they simply have to maintain their 'hardball' attitude until they defeat the pilots by atrition - or they ae relieved from their management contracts by he men above who employed them.

Simply put, they have nothing to lose. You could draw a parallel to troops cut off and surrounded by an enemy who has told them there will be no quarter - they simply must fight to the death or until they gain total victory over he surrounding forces,(the pilots), because anything less than total victory will be corporate death for them.

It's a shame there isn't some way the AoA couldn't give them some face-saving way out of what looks to me like a total impase as long as these men remain in their current contract management positions.
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 14:17
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Perhaps both sides have seriously underestimated each other. Certainly similar to '89 in that respect.
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 14:41
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Well-said Wiley. At last an opinion on the subject with which I totally agree. Management certainly are between a rock and a hard place. Perhaps more so than you have alluded to. They do not have the time to wait for natural attrition to give them victory; not that this would be a likely way for that to happen. The slowdown in business may help them prolong their stand marginally, however, the Hong Kong Government is more interested in a smooth operation at CLK than a management victory. They initially backed management due the normal HKGovt/Business relationship. Now they may not be so certain they should continue with that. What they are surely doing is making plans to open the skies of Hong Kong to non-Swire interests. Once slots are allocated to other players they will be gone forever and CX will always be a shadow of what it could and should have been. The question is are the management team willing to sacrifice so much in order to pursue a very uncertain victory. If they are then the owner’s should remove them forthwith.
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Old 3rd Sep 2001, 22:53
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fish

The other input missing from 411a and the usual suspects posts is of course, due to living in B*mf*ck Idaho or wherever it is. Few if any of them see the stirling work done in the Chinese media by the ethnic Chinese element of the pilot workforce. The local (Chinese language) media is extremely well informed I assure you. No matter what comes out of the dispute for the pilots, the concensus in the locoal press is that outdated colonial management techniques (as typified by the new incumbent in BA when he worked for CX during the CA dispute, and by Abeles and his political cronies during the '89 dispute) have resulted in the Hong Kong public being held to ransom due to the continuing lack of proper 'open skies' agreements and the resulting choice of services such as those embraced by Singapore. Even Tung Chi hua hua must respond to this, and the chances of CX being the de facto flag carrier within the next 2 years is in my opinion minimal. Make no mistake, the NOBODY loves pilots anywhere in the world, but the HKG publics view is overwhelmingly one of disdain for CX management and their continuing disputes with their work force CA's HAECO, pilits et al..
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