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Cathay Management Captain fails to remove gear pin!

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Cathay Management Captain fails to remove gear pin!

Old 15th Aug 2001, 14:33
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jtr's post (at the top of page 3 of this thread) stating that the only inkling of this incident was a notice, posted to ALL pilots, advising them to be observant during their external checking is reminiscent of something similar that occurred in the early 1980's in Ansett. One of the then (and now) management pilots - the Assistant DC9 Fleet Captain, landed with a moderately strong tailwind, on a wet runway that had a pronounced dip in the middle (Launceston in Tasmania), hence after the initial flare it was necessary to pole forward to put the airplane onto the downhill sloping surface. Unfortunately all of the above factors combined with an extended float, which would dictate a go-round.....however, obviously posessing skills beyond those of the lesser line pilots, Deputy Dog persisted with the landing - the result was 3 out of the 4 main tyres burst under heavy braking.

And what was the result. Our aforementioned Asst Fleet Captain issued a 3 page edict, complete with diagrams, advising the various combinations and permutations of "deflated" tyres that did and did not permit taxi-ing!
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Old 15th Aug 2001, 15:05
  #42 (permalink)  
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The 2nd to last item on our 727 Before Starting Engines checklist is "Gear Pins".

The correct answer is "Aboard", which is given by the Capt after he actually sees them.
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Old 15th Aug 2001, 15:14
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Guvnor Warning....Guvnor Warning! Yet another inane, anti-pilot posting from a totally non-aviation person in a Professional Pilots Forum to go along with his thousands (look at the total) postings, mainly anti pilot in some way! A very sad person who likes to tease pilots- do not respond to him!
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Old 15th Aug 2001, 15:19
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Full text of the article in the South China Morning Post

Wednesday, August 15, 2001

Double standard denied over manager's flying error


VICTORIA BUTTON


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Cathay Pacific manager who last week demoted a pilot for misreading his roster was recently involved in an incident over landing gear - but received only an informal verbal admonishment.
The airline yesterday confirmed that general manager, flying, Captain Rick Fry, had failed to notice before flying a plane that a pin fastening the gear in the down position had not been removed.


Cathay's director of corporate development, Tony Tyler, confirmed the incident had been subject of a written notice to all pilots, a video and a report to the Civil Aviation Department.

In this case, a flag attached to the pin had not been visible from a distance as was normal, he said.

He added that the May flight from Penang to Kuala Lumpur had proceeded without incident, with the landing gear down all the way.

The Aircrew Officers' Association general secretary, John Findlay, said rank-and-file pilots felt they would have been sacked in the current climate for such an error, but Mr Tyler denied any double standard. The airline generally avoided using disciplinary procedures to deal with flying mistakes to encourage pilots to be open about - and learn from - them, he said.
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Old 15th Aug 2001, 15:26
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Oh, dear,dear,dear Kaptin M...not nice that story about the 9 at Launy! But, you know what?... I just happen to know it's true!

 
Old 15th Aug 2001, 18:39
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Me too!
 
Old 16th Aug 2001, 14:29
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What is Capt Fry's new nom de plume? We have "L one Andy" for the leader of the Boeing fleets after a little debacle of knocking off the L One door on B747-200 in Taipei a few years back! Not much of a wrist slap for that one I recall either. It would be a bit "thick' if there wasn't one for this! Rememeber "Pop Up" and Roll Back" Equally remeber" Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!"
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 19:26
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Can't be bothered to read all 4 pages of the no doubt vitriolic comments but every time I read of someone elses error I think "there but for the grace of god go I". That said management pilots do come equiped with armour plated arses. Several managers in our outfit have made blunders that would have been at the very least "left seat threatening" and sailed on regardeles. Twas ever thus I suspect.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 19:47
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Actually it was 'Airbridge Andy', and for some reason the F/E got a minor bollocking for the cock up.
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Old 17th Aug 2001, 01:09
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That would be an excellent way to handle mistakes, but the 52 pilots that were sacked didn't make any. Now that's a double standard. The 1 Captain that got fired for misreading his roster was reinstated but demoted to F.O. for 2 years. Capt. Lick Fly received no punishment for leaving a gear pin in. Which do you think is worse. Cathay management are a bunch of lying pr1cks!!!!
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Old 17th Aug 2001, 03:27
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Exactly! Thanks for your support.
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Old 17th Aug 2001, 12:15
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What is Capt Fry's new nom de plume? We have "L one Andy" for the leader of the Boeing fleets......

Don't know about his ...but the manual now has them listed as ..."Frying Pins"
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Old 17th Aug 2001, 14:18
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Capt. Lick Fly has been reported to have done the same thing (not notice that a gear pin was still in the gear) on the Tristar (L1011) a number of years ago. How careless is this pilot and is he going to do it again when an engine fails on departure around high ground? Another management Captain pushed back with the air bridge still attached. He got promoted. The engineer got a bollocking.

[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
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Old 17th Aug 2001, 19:17
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Like Kaptain M, Amos and many, many others, I can vouch for the fact that the story of the Ansett DC9 Deputy Dog blowing three tyres at Launie way back when is not duff gen.
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Old 18th Aug 2001, 15:47
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"not duff gen"

very droll, Wiley.
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Old 18th Aug 2001, 17:42
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Yes Wiley, I was wanting to try to get that point across too - Duff beer is okay with Homer Simpson, but pilots recognise duff gen when they're fed it.

Now, another interesting point (getting back to the subject under review), is WHY did Cathay management maintain confidence in these 49 for an indeterminate length of time, and then SUDDENLY, on the one day - which just HAPPENED to be during an Industrial dispute - decide to terminate these guys? They certainly set a precedent, as they haven't undertaken these mass sackings before.
And it's certainly not the way ANY other aviation company - let alone an AIRLINE behaves, in respect to the performance of ANY employee. Can the traffic staff, engineering, and ticketing staff also expect to see mass sackings anytime SOON, because of managements' "loss of confidence"?
The normal and rational method has always been to weed out the "non-performers" one-by-one, following a thorough review of their previous history.
Strange, very strange!
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Old 18th Aug 2001, 17:49
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Kaptin M - you're absolutely right. Especially when you take into account CX's current serious shortage of crews, the dismissal of 49/52 apparently senior pilots for seemingly no reason (at least not according to the AOA) just doesn't make sense. There's obviously another side to this particular story ... and we're not getting told it!
 
Old 19th Aug 2001, 01:15
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The reason they sacked all those pilots was to intimidate the rest into signing the new contract. They made the contract sound better to the public, but it changes the rules regarding rostering practices and safety. They would then be allowed to change the rules, with regard to rostering practices, at any time they felt the need. The overtime that they would pay works out to be less than the cabin crew would get. People automatically think that because there is more money offered, it must be a better contract. I could make more money delivering pizzas on my days off than the overtime they are supposedly going to pay. SAFETY should be the number one priority, and these new rostering practices will greatly reduce this.
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Old 19th Aug 2001, 20:54
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Quite right busdriver. The "management" are just trying to screw the aircrew around while ast the same time, trying to get the public to believe that it is the pilots at fault.

However, the root cause of all of these problems lies with everyone's mate Rod!
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Old 19th Aug 2001, 23:48
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"Dragonspet" has summed it up.

We all make mistakes, lets learn from it and improve.

So what if a "Management Capt" left the gear pin in. The fact is the "gear pin was left in".

This has hi-lighted a potential problem which should not be allowed to occur again.

Fix the problem, make the warning flag bigger, incorporate the counting of gear pins as a 2 crew check etc.

Demoting, or axing ones job over a mistake is extreme. After all, who is perfect ?

CX management has made their share of dubious decisions, must we follow those examples ?
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