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Emirates A330 Fan Blade - DXB 18 Oct

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Emirates A330 Fan Blade - DXB 18 Oct

Old 30th Oct 2006, 14:25
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Originally Posted by forget
Is that so - A380? Well as you seem to know, please enlighten us all. Is this how it left the factory - or am I seeing something that's not there - literally.

I'd say what you are looking at there is a section of nose cowl longeron which is holding the lower acoustic lining in place, as all blades appear intact from other shots.

If not pneumatics, as is being suggested, then I'd go for failure of the composite skin and any blade damage as a result of debris from the cowl break up.

A blade failure would make that damage look tame and would be radial to the fan not forward of it.

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Old 30th Oct 2006, 14:28
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Surely if a fan blade made it's way loose, it would of come out the side aft and not forward as indicated in the pictures.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 15:21
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Originally Posted by forget
Is that so - A380? Well as you seem to know, please enlighten us all. Is this how it left the factory - or am I seeing something that's not there - literally.

If you are looking at the primed green peice. That is part of the cowling structure spanning the damage gap. You are looking from the outside in and at the back of the doubler (stringer) joinong the rear part of the cowling with the front. This stringer is blocking your view of the fan blades in the 6-8 'o clock pos. If you look in the other pics you will see the fan blades at that position are all there.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 15:40
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I think you are right there mate, not that I am in anyway in the business, but that seems to be the reason. What is the material? Looks like some sort of fibre glass or carbon fibre judging from the thread like material in some of the other pictures.
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Old 31st Oct 2006, 12:58
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Originally Posted by paulkinm
Surely if a fan blade made it's way loose, it would of come out the side aft and not forward as indicated in the pictures.
The engine containment case prevents it from coming out the side directly in line withe engine. Smaller pieces of It therfore slide forward into the soft skin of the inlet to carve that up some.

It rarely produces inlet damage as far foward as what's shown in the photos.
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 08:53
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Three scenarios are considered in investigation, 1. external damage to nose cowl in Birmingham, 2. nose cowl structural defects and 3. violent engine surge. Needs to confirm if the pressure differential at the inlet at the time of the incident can cause such damage. Engine part release is ruled out, cause of TOGA was delayed notification of runway change, engine was not shut down as initially reported
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 10:42
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Can anyone confirm whether the missing bits of cowling exited externally, or through the fan (picking up paulkinm's earlier point about the apparent direction of the rent edges)? Presumably at TOGA power the negative pressure in the inlet is huge and would tend to suck any detatched linings inwards, and yet there is little if any fan damage apparent.
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 12:20
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To clear up any myths, and I'm a late arrival here, so here's my 2 cents
Those who claim that the fan case can stop a blade are absolutely right, however...
Whilst testing the fan containment shroud, the engine is immediatly shut down, in real life, if the engine isn't shut down straight away then after a few seconds there's a good chance the fan disc could depart...
Now, the fan disc is another matter altogether, imagine something with up to 45 times the mass of a single blade spinning to wherever the heck it likes, Mr. DuPont won't have a chance.
And to clear up any chance that it could've been a 'departed' blade, I took the loberty of enhancing the brightness on this photo, and you can clearly see that the cowl damage is forward of the blades, enjoyyy
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...d_ocorrect.jpg
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 17:28
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There seems to be a bit missing just forward of the fan in this shot:-

What is/was it and where has it gone? Could it have detached and then been thrown forwards and out through the casing?
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 19:13
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Cool

It is an acoustic panel (or rather was).
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 19:58
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Originally Posted by Scratcher
Whilst testing the fan containment shroud, the engine is immediatly shut down, in real life, if the engine isn't shut down straight away then after a few seconds there's a good chance the fan disc could depart...
After the fan blade off, doesn't the engine have to continue running for x minutes at xx% power to make it a successful test? Or am I thinking of a different test?
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 20:04
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After a bird ingestion test the engine must keep running for a specified time (don't recall exact number).

But after a fan blade release test (usually done with an explosive charge) an immediate shutdown is done. I have even heard of the vibs so bad that the tower shaft driving the gearbox will disengage, shutting off the fuel.
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 20:06
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Thanks for that - much appreciated.
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Old 2nd Nov 2006, 01:07
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Originally Posted by barit1
After a bird ingestion test the engine must keep running for a specified time (don't recall exact number).
But after a fan blade release test (usually done with an explosive charge) an immediate shutdown is done. I have even heard of the vibs so bad that the tower shaft driving the gearbox will disengage, shutting off the fuel.

I will continue to state that this is not correct. The engine is not permitted to be shutdown straight away and must be handled in the same manner that a crew would perform under high workload.

However, whatever happens, happens and is considered in the pass-fail criteria
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Old 2nd Nov 2006, 02:01
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I have known a couple engines with the compressor discharge sense tube (to the FCU) routed around the fan case so if she shed a fan blade, the fuel flow would quickly drop or even shut off.

In service this device proved more of a hazard than a safety feature, and approval was eventually granted to remove it.
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Old 2nd Nov 2006, 03:15
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Originally Posted by barit1
I have known a couple engines with the compressor discharge sense tube (to the FCU) routed around the fan case so if she shed a fan blade, the fuel flow would quickly drop or even shut off.
In service this device proved more of a hazard than a safety feature, and approval was eventually granted to remove it.
agreed !

I can't immediately think of either an engine test or an actual in-service delay in shutting down a fan blade out event ever having compounded the end result from a safety standpoint
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Old 2nd Nov 2006, 03:21
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Grrr Bleed view

As far i can see at the pictures itīs seems to me a break caused from inside of the cowling. The outher part was broken out but the iner part seems to be broken to inside. Looking at the bottom of the brake we can found a perfect faliure in the joint. Besides close to the fan there are mising material. A foreing object can do that???
Another consideration: as far as i know generaly there are two bleed air suply sources (LP and HP) fron differents stages of the engine, depending on the thrust.
Maybe a bleed valve didnīt work properly during the low to high power transition resulting in this brake......

cheers
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Old 2nd Nov 2006, 23:59
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Local word on the street here in the Sandpit is explosive failure of the anti-icing plumbing .......
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Old 3rd Nov 2006, 07:20
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Originally Posted by horsethief
Another consideration: as far as i know generaly there are two bleed air suply sources (LP and HP) fron differents stages of the engine, depending on the thrust.
Maybe a bleed valve didnīt work properly during the low to high power transition resulting in this brake......
cheers
Neither HP or LP bleed air goes through the nose cowl - the only supply of bleed air in that area is cowl anti-ice.
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Old 3rd Nov 2006, 09:03
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Cool

And the bleed air used for NAI is...............
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