Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff

[763 jock]

I bet he got away with it because he wasn't carrying any liquids, hair gel, mineral water or specs in a case!

[bigbusdriver06]

Crew coaches going through the security point? Now that IS a real security risk. You hide something lethal on the coach, they don't find it in their search and you pick it up 5 minutes later. This must be the easiest way for crew to get illegal items aboard an aircraft. Amazingly, the DoT regard this risk as acceptable.

Once I accidentally left my mobile phone on the seat and it was still there when I returned. So much for a thorough searching.

The only solution is to have a different coach airside.

[flt_lt_w_mitty]

I'm getting - how do you say- p!ssed off? with the delays my ops are getting in the UK.

Can any of you guys tell me how to get my crews through your security points?

Do we need to hire Police or Customs costumes so we are waved through or do I get one of my F/As to bring her 12 year old son along for the trip?

I guess this sound a bit trivial the way I write, but a serious question here, WTF is going on?

[lexxity]

EGCC today, one of my collegues was not allowed a powder eyeshadow through, but a lipstick was ok. Also the operating flightdeck of one our services were made to check their nightstop bags in because they contained such items as deoderants, etc.

Also found very little discretion at the security point for pax, if their one bag was even half a centimetre too big it was sent back to check in, which makes us look unproffessional. We have been given a security tray which is evidently bigger than the gauge security are using.

[eidah]

Originally Posted by flt_lt_w_mitty

I'm getting - how do you say- p!ssed off? with the delays my ops are getting in the UK.

Can any of you guys tell me how to get my crews through your security points?

Do we need to hire Police or Customs costumes so we are waved through or do I get one of my F/As to bring her 12 year old son along for the trip?

I guess this sound a bit trivial the way I write, but a serious question here, WTF is going on?

You are not the only one p!ssed off I think every airline staff member working or going through uk security is feeling this even secuity staff. I quess the only way to get through security points on time is arrive early its a pain but there seems no other way.

[NG_Kaptain]

Originally Posted by lexxity

EGCC today, one of my collegues was not allowed a powder eyeshadow through, but a lipstick was ok. Also the operating flightdeck of one our services were made to check their nightstop bags in because they contained such items as deoderants, etc.
Also found very little discretion at the security point for pax, if their one bag was even half a centimetre too big it was sent back to check in, which makes us look unproffessional. We have been given a security tray which is evidently bigger than the gauge security are using.

At EGLL they took away the lipstick from our flight attendants but left the eyeshadow the security person said she didn't know why they needed more than one lipstick as she only brought one to work with her. BTW we are long haul and are away for extended periods.

[brain fade]

I work for BA Connect and as all our a/c are all 'dispersed' at so called 'regional' airports, our operation has been much less affected by the current goings on.
I think big BA could make things easier for itself next time (God forbid) if it based some hulls outside London.

Stating the bleedin' obvious I suppose.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by brain fade

I work for BA Connect and as all our a/c are all 'dispersed' at so called 'regional' airports, our operation has been much less affected by the current goings on.
I think big BA could make things easier for itself next time (God forbid) if it based some hulls outside London.
Stating the bleedin' obvious I suppose.

Or just arrange to have flight bag, et. al. delivered to the cockpit by groundcrew as essential flight equipment? A nuisance, but probably better than the nauseum that several people have described above.

G

[BOAC]

Sadly, if you read this thread right through, the engineers are having trouble getting fluid replenishments through - oh, and we often do not have 'groundcrew'.

[BOAC]

I have asked the IPA to try to get a 'definitive' from the DofT on their guidelines for crew under the new, downgraded security state. I will publish here if I get them. Any BALPAs got them?

[Aloon]

Crew getting things through

I'm sure that 'IF' you wanted to, you could get it through...

I have a metal knife, fork and spoon in my locker... Also a leatherman... A radio, a torch and all other things I need to work and eat on my break!! Has my locker been searched?? NO.. Do I care ...NO...

I have access 'if I wanted' to many different dangerous things airside, but I don't have that interest!!! As I'm security cleared, and work everyday airside... Hell, I could drive into a taxiing a/c 'if' I wanted to!!!

But , of course I don't, never will,, but exactly what a laptop or lip balm has to do with this fact I'm not sure!!!

Don't they not realize that ground staff are as professional as aircrew?? Obviously not!! Can't take smokes to work , but everyone is smoking in the smoking area????? 'HELLO'

If this had happened during one of the heat-waves, and I was told I couldn't take sun cream with me, then I'd refuse to work!! Twelve hours in the sun without protection is asking for it!!! Simple as!!! H&S has to stand up to this, otherwise, people can use there rules so as not to work... Causing more delays and grief for pax!!

[JW411]

It really would help your case if you could just learn to spell PROFESSIONAL just like it says on the pprune homepage!

[Ultimate 6th floor]

You know, I would hate to be sceptical like that, but it sounds like another way of "advertising" the fact that terror is still amoungst us and that intelligence,police or else are still doing their job more or less.

Heard that the kind of explosives would not have been powerfull enough to take down a 747...

[chrisbl]

Originally Posted by Ultimate 6th floor

Heard that the kind of explosives would not have been powerfull enough to take down a 747...

Perhaps you would volunteer to take part in a trial and come back here and lets us know how you got on.

[GreatCircle]

Well guys, I got caught in it all at EGKK last week, and I am heading back into Blighty next week to Gatport Airwick once more...

I hope it has eased somewhat, and common-sense prevails for both ourselves and our customers. Last time was a total farce, and our ops and security folks are about as much use as a three legged spaniel on this stuff, unfortunately.

At least I don't have to bring crayons to do the paperwork this time around. If anyone wants the CATSA Crew Advisory, just let me know! Happy to oblige...

[RAT 5]

Anyone know what is happening to the 'sky marshalls'? or are they so well disguised that no-one knows who they are. I presume they still are walking around like Wyatt Erp.

[BOAC]

I have heard nothing from the IPA yet regarding DofT crew guidelines, so in the interim (suggest you print and carry?) this, courtesy of 'Ransman' on another thread from BA (for PAX, so crew SHOULD be ok??)

My BOLD text and a bit of editing to remove inessential stuff.

British Airways welcomed the Government's announcement of Monday August 14, easing restrictions on hand baggage on flights departing all UK airports.

From Tuesday August 15 all UK airports implemented the new hand baggage policy.

Customers departing from the UK:
Customers travelling from the UK will be able to take on board as hand baggage one cabin bag no bigger than 45cm x 35cm x 16cm, the size of a small laptop bag.

Cabin baggage MUST NOT contain:
Any cosmetics
Any toiletries
Any liquids
Any drinks
Cigarette lighters
Cabin baggage CAN contain the following:

Electronic equipment, including laptops, mobile phones and portable music and DVD players
Essential prescribed medicines in liquid form provided they are under 50ml. Customers will be asked to taste the liquid. If they cannot taste the liquid for any reason they will be asked to go to an airport pharmacy to have the medicine verified.
Nothing must be carried in pockets. For more detail of the Baggage restrictions click here

Please ensure that you do not check into the hold any essential items such as:

· Household and car keys (including electric key fobs)
· Travel documents including passport and itinerary and any important contact details
· Essential medicines for the journey
· Wallets or pocket size purses

To help progress through the airport all customers are encouraged not to include items capable of containing liquids (e.g. bottles, flasks, cans etc.) in either their hand or checked baggage.

All electronic equipment will need to be removed from the item of hand baggage and screened separately. We recommend these items be packed carefully for easy removal at the security search point.

Extra restrictions are in place for customers travelling to the USA from the UK. Customers WILL NOT be permitted to take any liquid or gel items purchased in the departures lounge into the aircraft cabin. All food or beverage items must be consumed before boarding.

More information
Further information can be found at:-

UK Department for Transport www.dft.gov.uk

[martinidoc]

What the guidance doesn't make very clear is the position for tablet (non-liquid) prescription medication . This is not apparently banned, but nor is it expressly permitted. Since it is liquids which are banned, and the exclusion to this is prescrption medication tasted or verified by pharmacy, I would interpret this as meaning that ordinary prescription medicine in tablet or capsule form are permitted. However my Lisinopril & Bendro was confiscated yesterday at NCL, despite being in their sealed and labelled packaging! Made my blood pressure boil! (to mix metaphors)

[Capt H Peacock]

SECURITY - BALPA calls for stakeholders summit

Mervyn Granshaw calls for a debate amongst all of those who are affected to get some sensible policies in place.

I'm distinctly worried, as I tend to agree with Michael O'Leary and David Learmount. We have a taboo on security under which no-one is allowed to question or clarify the pronouncements of the government. Scarce security resources are detained looking for lipsticks when they should be searching for terrorists.

So what shall we talk about? How serious is it if I agree with O'Leary and Learmount? What next for the 'Keystone Cops'?


Off you go then . . . . .

[Boeingman]

Press release reads:
BRITAIN’S PILOTS ‘FRUSTRATED’ AND CALL FOR SECURITY SUMMIT
- and call for an end of ‘bizarre’ ban on toothpaste, contact lens fluid and other liquids in pilot cockpits
Britain’s pilots, increasingly frustrated by the way in which security measures are being handled in the UK’s airports and in the air after receiving assurances that it would be generally ‘business as usual’ for them, are calling on the Government to call an urgent Security Summit conference at which all those involved at operational level can have a ‘frank and free exchange of views about recent experiences and better prepare us for the future.’

The pilots are also calling for an end to the blanket measures which broadly subject them to the same restrictions as passengers. Even when travelling away from home for days at a time, they cannot take into their cockpits toothpaste, contact lens solution and other liquids and gells, a measure they say which makes ‘no sense at all.’

Says Captain Mervyn Granshaw, Chairman of the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA), which organises 9,000 of the nation’s airline pilots: ‘Since the extra security measures have been introduced we have seen some good practice and some very poor practice. Some airports have coped and some, like Heathrow, have struggled. Whilst the disruption for passengers has understandably caught media attention, there have been endless practical and frustrating problems for flight crew who have to operate the aircraft.

‘We need a Security Summit of representatives of airport operators (such as BAA), the airlines, TranSec (the Department of Transport’s security team), pilots, cabin crew, and ground staff. We need to re-examine all security initiatives and ask if they are advancing the safety of the public, or have become an unnecessary and unintended burden in several critical areas. If we don’t learn from the lessons of the past two weeks we shall be in trouble and aviation could grind to a halt for all the wrong reasons.’

One measure which has caused a lot of concern among pilots is the restriction as to what they can carry into their cockpits. ‘ We have put a lot of our trust into government intelligence sources and have abided by the recommendations, but equally government should trust us,’ says Captain Granshaw.

‘ This is not about special pleading but pilots are already responsible for the lives of hundreds of passengers. The Government needs to revisit its risk assessment and see that there is no logic at all in denying pilots the ability to take on board what they need to operate their flight safely – and often for days at a time away from home.’

‘Do officials really believe that we need to be prevented from using liquids, given that we freely load and carry many thousands of litres of volatile aviation kerosene every day? The measure is illogical and frankly bizarre.’

BALPA is concerned that the past two weeks has seen a lack of inter-agency co-operation.
‘We believe a Security Summit to be imperative,’ says Captain Granshaw. ‘By learning the lessons we can have better integration of services and improve the operational impact of government decisions. BALPA stands ready to help convene and to participate in this Security Summit.’