ATC Slot Nazis at PMI
Guest
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Could i please ask a wee question re the 15 minutes around the slot time. I see that some air trafikkers have stated on this thread that the -5, +10 is for THEIR convenience. I always thought ATC was there for OUR convenince! Not trying to be flippant but I sense the tail may be in danger of wagging the dog here! Perhaps an ATC guy could enlighten me?
Guest
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Brade fade - an accurate username indeed!
I wouldn't say we are there for your convenience, but we are there to provide you with a service, indeed the very best service we can - and from most people's comments on this and other threads, we generally manage to do this.
We would be more than happy to do away with slots and have total freedom, but that ain't possible. So we need a bit of flexibility, that is the -5/+10. What happens when an airline uses this small window for their own commercial purposes - increased pressure for us to get you to the hold and airborne in a limited amount of time and for you to achieve this. It all adds up to reduced safety.
Sorry if that inconveniences you!
I wouldn't say we are there for your convenience, but we are there to provide you with a service, indeed the very best service we can - and from most people's comments on this and other threads, we generally manage to do this.
We would be more than happy to do away with slots and have total freedom, but that ain't possible. So we need a bit of flexibility, that is the -5/+10. What happens when an airline uses this small window for their own commercial purposes - increased pressure for us to get you to the hold and airborne in a limited amount of time and for you to achieve this. It all adds up to reduced safety.
Sorry if that inconveniences you!
Guest
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We can go on arguing about slot allocation, usage and how god/bad the system is. Luckly after long discussions we will all understand a bit better how things work and why. But PMI is different.
PMI applies ZERO TOLERANCE no matter how many aicrafts they have at the holding point. They make no projections whatsoever and the word flexibility is deleted from their SOP. Many examples of this lack of flexibility have been offered in posts above.As a regular in PMI I know this is not a Once in a While situation.
WRT to preference to Spanish operators....ZERO TOLERANCE all over the place
Happy Landings
PMI applies ZERO TOLERANCE no matter how many aicrafts they have at the holding point. They make no projections whatsoever and the word flexibility is deleted from their SOP. Many examples of this lack of flexibility have been offered in posts above.As a regular in PMI I know this is not a Once in a While situation.
WRT to preference to Spanish operators....ZERO TOLERANCE all over the place
Happy Landings
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Last night sitting on the ground heard a poor JMC driver trying to get off 20 minutes early, unrestricted slot not much traffic around midnight. Controller would not let them start stating only that schedule was 2350 and he would have to re-file if he was to go before that. what then happend could only be described as a bad joke, where for the next 15 minutes said driver was switched between ground and Palma operations without any progress or explanation until he was told that although he was unrestricted at 2350 he MIGHT be resricted if he went 20 minutes earlier. ???
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Chiglet.
Probably true your Dan Air story. I have also done the same thing before in the past. If your clued up enough to know in advance where your problem spots are gonna be, we used to file early. (Although not to the excess of two hours- maybe just 20 or thirty minutes). Again as you say, now more and more airfields are co-ordinated your flightplan has to match your runway slot. Can't get away with it these days!
Of course I wouldn't condone such actions anyway!
Probably true your Dan Air story. I have also done the same thing before in the past. If your clued up enough to know in advance where your problem spots are gonna be, we used to file early. (Although not to the excess of two hours- maybe just 20 or thirty minutes). Again as you say, now more and more airfields are co-ordinated your flightplan has to match your runway slot. Can't get away with it these days!
Of course I wouldn't condone such actions anyway!
Guest
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This is becoming a wee bit tedious.Would all of you who think flow control is a waste of space, please arrange a liason visit to Eurocontrol in Brussels. Not only will you be enlightened, you may even learn that you're not the only aeroplane in the sky. You can also can put forward your alternative suggestions for fitting 40 aeroplanes into 20 parking bays at the same time, that should be good for a laugh.
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It wasn't me.
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Yesterday and today, I was on "earlies" at EGCC/MAN. Yesterday, we were in LVP's [Low Vis Procs]. ie one runway. Today, we had the 'official' opening of R2 by a certain politician. Ergo, one runway, yet again. The Departure Slot Monitor was running at 5 pages on both days.
When the Runway [ie Departure] rate was changed, the DSM went bananas. Changes of ONE MINUTE were coming up. Airfield (taxying) delays were runnig at 25-35mins. If there are 10 a/c at the hold, and you have 10mins to the start of the slot, you aren't going to make it.
One company re-routed 3 times to escape a MAN slot. They succeeded in delaying their a/c 55 mins.
In the UK, please, PLEASE talk to ATC we are here to [try to] help. HONEST
When the Runway [ie Departure] rate was changed, the DSM went bananas. Changes of ONE MINUTE were coming up. Airfield (taxying) delays were runnig at 25-35mins. If there are 10 a/c at the hold, and you have 10mins to the start of the slot, you aren't going to make it.
One company re-routed 3 times to escape a MAN slot. They succeeded in delaying their a/c 55 mins.
In the UK, please, PLEASE talk to ATC we are here to [try to] help. HONEST
