!st of July Industrial Action
Guest
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Employing crew from mainland China......oooohhh, that will do WONDERS for their safety record. Certainly it will go a LONG way to helping establish Hong Kong as a first world city....! I am sure the people and government of HK will be REALLY appreciative of the improvement in safety, experience and competence that such a change would offer them. Good one CX management.....go for it. 
Guest
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Cathay Pacific stock closed yesterday at 10 hkd a share (down from 17 last summer). Do you think shareholders are sending this management a message....???? Bloody brilliant management if I have ever seen one. Nero plays his violin while Rome burns......
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My friend who is still in management tells me that all out panic is developing within the heirarchy of the company. Apparantly the Hong Kong Government has quietly informed them that they 'will not' allow another shutdown of the airline, and are decidedly unimpressed that management have allowed the situation to deteriorate to this level once again.... In addition, the issue of 'open skies' has been raised insomuch as Cathay risks the entry of 'all out competition' from foreign carriers, with the HK Governments blessing. If I was a shareholder in CX......I would not be well pleased with the handling of the company the past few years. Short term corporate profits at the expense of long term stability and steady growth don't represent good corporate governance in most peoples book. Most of us don't care anymore, and couldn't care less what threats they throw our way. We have been pushed far enough....and it is well past time we pushed back.
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All of this shouting...."we're going to it, we're going to do it, we REALLY are going to do it this time.......". Well, why wait for July 1st, why not do it now?
These guys are just a bunch of whimps. Think what they really need is a salary cut. And they may get it too if the recruitment in KUL is as successful as advertised.
The big salary glory days are over in HKG.
Over, as in goodby.
These guys are just a bunch of whimps. Think what they really need is a salary cut. And they may get it too if the recruitment in KUL is as successful as advertised.
The big salary glory days are over in HKG.
Over, as in goodby.
Guest
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......the people of HK have enjoyed many years of safe, efficient and reliable service by the pilots of CX. It is time they were made aware just how seriously at risk their safety is being compromised by the short term race for profit. We are at our ropes end.....and have no choice in taking action to protect ourselves, and our passengers.
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Ironbutt57---
Well, I even supplied a phone number for ALPA in DCA, wonder if these guys ever used it? They could sure use all the help that is available.
What they fail to realise is that salaries, such as CX paid in the past, are just that, in the past. If they want to know about TODAY...just look at the latest from SIA. THAT is the salary of today, like it or not. To try to turn back the clock to yesteryear, well it ain't going to happen. And, there is not much the CX guys can do about it. Not saying it is right, just the facts.
Well, I even supplied a phone number for ALPA in DCA, wonder if these guys ever used it? They could sure use all the help that is available.
What they fail to realise is that salaries, such as CX paid in the past, are just that, in the past. If they want to know about TODAY...just look at the latest from SIA. THAT is the salary of today, like it or not. To try to turn back the clock to yesteryear, well it ain't going to happen. And, there is not much the CX guys can do about it. Not saying it is right, just the facts.
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411-A, why don't you go and drown your stuck-up-your-arse-head in the nearest duck pond and get a life, perhaps you could talk to the ducks and fish. They might even be your friends seeing as you can't make any here!
(Sorry if this seems rather crude to people, but have a look in the Fragrant Harbour forum and search for posts about CX management and you will see why I'm so angry).
(Sorry if this seems rather crude to people, but have a look in the Fragrant Harbour forum and search for posts about CX management and you will see why I'm so angry).
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FL 390 and others: whatever 411A's past record he is absolutely correct in these two posts.
The A scale salaries are in the past, except for the few remaining who still draw that salary from pre 1993.
Furthermore it would seem that you guys are prepared to be kicked around by management. The industrial action taken in 1999 was a damp squib. CX and KA managements only have to hold on till chinese new year when it will all go quiet again at new year bonus time!
The A scale salaries are in the past, except for the few remaining who still draw that salary from pre 1993.
Furthermore it would seem that you guys are prepared to be kicked around by management. The industrial action taken in 1999 was a damp squib. CX and KA managements only have to hold on till chinese new year when it will all go quiet again at new year bonus time!
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Refering to a certain pathetic individuals comments regarding 'market salaries' eg: what Singapore pays... Well Mr. Know-it-all, I suppose those same 'market salaries' don't explain the fact that an ever increasing number of Singapores fleet are parked in the Arizona desert BECAUSE they can't attract enough crew! And please spare me your comments regarding 'unsustainable salaries' at CX. The fact of the matter is that in REAL terms, the present A-scale salary is worth 50% LESS than it was 8 years ago, and furthermore, the average A-scale Captain is paid in REAL terms about 60% of a comparable United/Delta/American pilot (..and I might add, for many of us there is no pension on top of it...!). In spite of the money issue, the MAIN gripes are to do with lifestyle issues (complete chaos in our scheduling), violation of contractaul rights, intimidation tactics (after 12 years, sign a new contract of be fired..!) and basically the fact that we are working for one, if not the most dysfunctional airline in the industry. It is people such as yourself who implement policies such as we have here at CX that lead to the ruin of lives, careers , shareholder value and eventually the very airline itself. I find it interesting that BOTH the managements of....say, Continental, and the management of CX claim that they are leading their respective carriers to the title of 'Worlds Best'. Perhaps you can explain it to those of us 'obviously' not as bright as yourself how they BOTH expect to get to the SAME place using COMPLETELY opposed strategies and philosophies. If I was a betting man, I would place my money on the carrier that shows consideration and respect (both completely lacking at CX) for its employees. In case it has escaped your rather narrow minded mindset, there has NEVER been a successful airline that has subordinated it's employees to the sake of maximum profit.....not a one. There is a reason that airlines like Southwest and Continental are as successful as they are.....and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with people who think like you. Your hatred and vitriolic attitude towards the very people who make the reputation, safety and long term success of an airline (ie: the staff who do the REAL work) possible is on display for all to see in your comments. I do hope you keep writing to PPRUNE, as it provides no end of entertainment, and a good degree of confirmation in how truly sick and twisted a good deal of today's airline management are. We are fighting for our careers, our families and our profession. Regardless of the short-term outcome, in the end your type will be covered in disgrace (re: Lorenzo). I have to wonder what failure in your past compels you to offer your bitter and hysterical comments. You offer nothing of value, and must possess a truly malignant soul. I should feel anger towards you....but instead feel only pity.
[This message has been edited by canuck revenger (edited 20 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by canuck revenger (edited 20 June 2001).]
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Agreed 411A delights - in every post - to tell us how HE was paid a salary commensurate with the conditions under which he was paid. But THAT was in the "Glory Days" (his pathetic phrase) of Cathay. Now that HE's not there, because he's passed his "use by" date, he doesn't believe there are any more REAL pilots left. You are a sad, pathetic reminder of the old style of domineering dictator that USED to be regularly seen, but now, thank God is mostly just a (bad) memory from bygone days in Western cockpits. Unfortunately, 411A and his type passed their legacy on to some of the unfortunate local Asian pilots (eg. Cathay, Singapore), hence the resentment for "round-eyes".
Anyway, unfortunately I've allowed our time-expired 411A to distract me from the CORE ISSUE with the CX pilots -
a beligerent, "don't-care-about-the-consequences", "stuff-the-shareholders" management, whose narrow-minded thinking leads them to believe the ONLY way to increase profits is to attack employees working conditions!
Anyway, unfortunately I've allowed our time-expired 411A to distract me from the CORE ISSUE with the CX pilots -
a beligerent, "don't-care-about-the-consequences", "stuff-the-shareholders" management, whose narrow-minded thinking leads them to believe the ONLY way to increase profits is to attack employees working conditions!
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Whoever they are, they can all scream, fight or bite but the market will dictate it all. Nothing wgrong with fighting for what we believe is right and if the airlines grant it to us it's because they think we diserve it (The pro and against weight upon).
I am fed up with explaining why I earn more than others without asking why I get less than many!! Not Jealous because I consider myself lucky to do a job I love but why do we have to justify ourselves ?
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If you can't save the engine...save the airframe
I am fed up with explaining why I earn more than others without asking why I get less than many!! Not Jealous because I consider myself lucky to do a job I love but why do we have to justify ourselves ?
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If you can't save the engine...save the airframe
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Canuck Revenger---
SIA has aircraft parked in the Arizona Desert? Well, the only places that will store large civil aircraft in Arizona are Marana and Kingman. As I was at both airports last week and didn't notice any SIA aircraft, they must have them buried six feet under.
Kaptin M---
The main reason local HKG Chinese pilots are resentful of "round-eyes" is because the locals were systematically excluded from the CX flightdeck for many years. Not so in SIA.
SIA has aircraft parked in the Arizona Desert? Well, the only places that will store large civil aircraft in Arizona are Marana and Kingman. As I was at both airports last week and didn't notice any SIA aircraft, they must have them buried six feet under.
Kaptin M---
The main reason local HKG Chinese pilots are resentful of "round-eyes" is because the locals were systematically excluded from the CX flightdeck for many years. Not so in SIA.
Guest
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411A....sometimes I don't know why I (or anyone else for that matter...) bother with you. But in the interest of keeping your distortions straight, I feel it necessary in this case. Singapore has several new aircraft parked in the desert. They have them as 'white tails' so as not to suffer the embarrasment of being publicly identified as having to park perfectly servicable aircraft. If you doubt this, contact some of the SQ pilots and ask them. Furthermore, if you are based in the US, why do you think you have some reason to comment on just about EVERY issue on PPRUNE, especially CX. I have never encountered someone with such a high opinion of themselves.....SOG indeed!
Guest
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You guys are being distracted by this vitriolic attack on 411A. As I said in my last post what he has said so far on this thread is correct. Whether there are white or pink tailed SQ aircraft in Arizona is irrelevant.
Concentrate on the point. If you are going to have industrial action do it properly.
Concentrate on the point. If you are going to have industrial action do it properly.
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Hello from Singapore...
Just wanted to clarify that there are no NEW SIA a/c parked in the desert...merely one or two old white-tailed 747-300's that could not be sold off. They were flown there in recent months.
Regards and the best of luck to Cathay pilots in your battles...
Just wanted to clarify that there are no NEW SIA a/c parked in the desert...merely one or two old white-tailed 747-300's that could not be sold off. They were flown there in recent months.
Regards and the best of luck to Cathay pilots in your battles...