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If I was the boss of KLM...

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If I was the boss of KLM...

Old 18th Jun 2001, 23:40
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Long Haul
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Post If I was the boss of KLM...

I would be unhappy that I had KLM cityhopper and KLMuk doing essentially the same thing, feeding the hub, but using two separate company structures, i.e. two scheduling departments, two catering departments, etc. I think that I would let KLC take over all the UK routes, and put the entire KLMuk organization onto that BUZZ thing.
 
Old 19th Jun 2001, 02:25
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And that would improve .... what?

But then ... you are not.

Sq
 
Old 19th Jun 2001, 11:37
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No, I'm not the boss, luckily. The overall profitability of the regional operation would improve because you would have one office in Amsterdam running twice as large a regional airline plus an independent Buzz operation, versus what you have now which is one regional airline in Amsterdam, one at Stansted, and an independant Buzz.
 
Old 20th Jun 2001, 02:51
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Don't quite follow your reasoning Long Haul. First of all, buzz is not independent but uses the same core services as klmUK, so if all klmUK aircraft and crews fly for buzz no savings. But, suddenly cityhopper need another 20-25 aircraft and crews to keep the feed going to klm long haul - massive cost increase. Add that klmUK are far more cost effective than cityhopper and I'd know which one I'd want to be rid of, if only I could get it past my masters at the VNV.
 
Old 20th Jun 2001, 03:44
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does it matter one clog what we think, B.A. will be hoping to take on the vnv, so they can get rid of the expensive labour at KLM, and end up with what they want. schiphol, not KLM.
 
Old 20th Jun 2001, 23:55
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I personally donīt believe that KLMuk is far more cost effective than KLC nor that KLM labor is far more expensive than BA labour, although I donīt know for sure. Remember that the pound has increased its value against the guilder by 35% in the last 5 years, and that KLMUK pays about nlg 3000 in housing allowance to each of its pilots based in AMS. KLC can get the aircraft it needs from KLMuk; it already flys the F100 and the F50. BUZZ could then get some better airplanes like 737s. Crews would not be a problem since there is such long waiting list at KLM, or some KLMuk crews may wish to stay on. The real advantage would be that crews could be more efficiently scheduled, that is instead of just going uk and back, they could also go to European destinations. That Buzz and KLMuk share some of the underlying support services may be true, but they are totally different airlines with totally different markets. Buzz would be left with one crew base (they now have 5, I believe), one aircraft type, one catering concept, etc. KLC would simply expand the departments it already has, operating many more aircraft with a lesser incremental cost, thus acheiving a economies of scales improvement.
 
Old 21st Jun 2001, 00:22
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and where longhaul my dear chap do you think KLC would get the crews to fly 20 to 25 more aircraft? from what i hear KLC are having problems now with crews, shnot posssible!!!
 
Old 21st Jun 2001, 00:31
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KLM Cityhopper can have me if they want
 
Old 21st Jun 2001, 01:27
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I understand what your getting at now, long haul, all klmUK aircraft transfered to cityhopper equals more jobs for the dutch. Why didn't you just come out and say it? buzz gets new aircraft, maybe 737's? Obviously these aircraft and the crew training required won't cost buzz's parent company a bean as you know klm wouldn't fund it in the first place.
There are very few UK pilots on the AMS detachment (maybe 20 max.) so not much saving there and although klmUk has a regional basing policy, as required in a country with more than one airport, all management functions are carried out from Stansted, as you suggested. Furthermore your policy would require at least 11, but more like 22 KLC crews nightstopping in UK to get the punters to AMS for the long haul wave, not cheap, especially on klm allowances.
There is, however, one of your points I agree with whole heartedly and that is that it would be more efficient for the F100's to fly into Europe from AMS. What is required is a modicum of cooperation, it makes sense for klmUK to fly the earlies from UK to AMS and also the final flights AMS to UK. Vice versa it is inefficient for klmUK to fly the earlies out of AMS to UK and the final flights to AMS. The latter should be done by KLC, then we all get to sleep in our own beds. To free up KLC/KLM crews to do this means klmUK crews will have to fill in on AMS - Europe routes. Radical, I know, but if the VNV want to fiddle whilst klm loses all the long haul punters from Eurowings to Lufthansa then so be it.
When klm no longer exist, having become Dutch BA, and the suits are moving into Hoofdorp, maybe the VNV will be forced to widen their horizons, after all we will all get more time to think when we're unemployed.
 
Old 22nd Jun 2001, 12:18
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WELL SAID, i couldnt agree more, the VNV needs to open its eyes to the real world.
 
Old 22nd Jun 2001, 19:40
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I think it is prob' to late for the vnv, as B.A. already know what they want from AMS,
1, to expand into schiphol
2, to stop KLM taking so many U.K. punters
3, to become the no1 Euro airline

I think there will be some trouble ahead at schiphol, as B.A. will expect to hump KLM and the vnv
 
Old 10th Mar 2002, 23:53
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Although I still haven't mananaged to usurp the powers-that-be, it seems that KLM's management have been thinking along the same lines as I did last summer. This past week they have been meeting with the VNV to discuss how the hub operation of KLM-uk could be merged into KLM Cityhopper. Major issues to be resolved include where the ex-KLMuk pilots would appear on the joint KLM-KLC senoritylist, and under what conditions, if any, they would be allowed to fly the big planes.
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Old 11th Mar 2002, 10:50
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Excuse my extreme ignorance, but what is VNV? . .. .Also, reading the posts above and bearing in mind AMS's fifth runway, is it likely that BA is preparing itself for the likelihood that LHR will not get a third runway (and presumably BA couldn't give a stuff about a new runway anywhere else) and is intending to combine long haul operations with KLM there? Presumably this will be used as a big stick in the lead up to the decision.
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Old 11th Mar 2002, 11:43
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Akerosid, VNV stands for Vereniging van Nederlandse Vekeersvliegers, Dutch ALPA.. .. .The most powerful union in KLM and the one that all other's look upto for it's negotiating skills, it's professionalism and it's resolve not to let their memebers be f***ed over by the beancounters.
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Old 11th Mar 2002, 12:49
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L.H.. .Would you bother with Volare group then?
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Old 12th Mar 2002, 01:13
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Long Haul, since you seem to know so much about KLMuk and buzz, could you please tell us the five bases that buzz has, as per your earlier post. Being just an ignorant pilot, as opposed to the prospective head of KLM, I thought they only had one.
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Old 12th Mar 2002, 02:42
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KLMuk doesn't have many pilots left on the AMS basing, and they shut the cabin crew base there a few months ago.. .. .A KLMuk pilot (even discounting the AMS allowance) would earn a lot less with City Hopper based on their euro paid salary.. .. .It would make sense for KLMuk to stay seperate and do the UK to NL routes where currently City Hopper crews nighstop.. .. .Its crazy that at the moment their are dutch nighstopping in the UK and english nighstopping in NL ??? . .. .As for fleets, yes the combination of F50's/F70's and F100's is ideal for such a merger ..... BUT as already said it posses huge VNV opposition.. .. .Also what about City Hoppers crews right of transfer to KLM mainline after 7 years .... would KLMuk crews have that same right and have their years of service credited ???. .. .A whole bag of worms ... but 'je veit het noit!'. .. .Tot zeins
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Old 12th Mar 2002, 12:12
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To Mfds,. . Just a small correection it's 6 years in Cityhopper then "THE BIG BLUE" is open to bidding.. .. .To flaps forty,. . The VNV is a "KLM" union and on more than just a few occasions has used it's numbers to $#%* the pilots at Cityhopper. This caused about 30 pilots to resign from the VNV 5 years ago.
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Old 12th Mar 2002, 12:27
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Herod,. .At the time of my first posting, I believe that KLM-uk had pilot bases in STN, MAN, LBA, GLA, & AMS, and cabin crew bases in Humberside, Teeside, Norwich, and Newcastle as well. Crew based at the outstations instead of the hub can actually be cheaper, as there are fewer hotel rooms to pay for. There is, however, a problem with reserve coverage, as every base should have someone on reserve every day in case someone calls in sick. . .mfds,. .I am myself not convinced that there would be any opposition to this at all from the VNV, unless a lot of the Dutch pilots lost a lot of senority. Don't forget that the VNV will, sometime in the future, in all likelihood again sit across the table from BALPA; and at that time at in a more disadvantageous position.
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Old 12th Mar 2002, 13:48
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Dear Flaps-Forty,. .. .As a true European I feel that the VNV is too much KLM pilots only oriented... They are talking too much about things they shouldn't be talking about. (a bit like the BCA at SN) The VNV should protect the jobs of it members in numbers (i.e. KL can outsource X as long as they keep Y pilots at KL itself) and quality (i.e. salary, time off etc). They should not sit on the chair of management as we can see at SN, Alitalia and Olympic.... .. .The arguments they use to keep fellow KLuk and HV pilots out is pathetic as they are the guys filling the big shinny 747's they operate.. .. .If the VNV had not been there KLC and KLuk had already been merged and there would have been more pilot jobs. That should be the aim of the VNV! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 12 March 2002, 09:49: Message edited by: Dutchie ]</small>
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