ICAO Age 65 from 23 November 2006
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ICAO Age 65 from 23 November 2006
Hi All
If this is old news then please accept my apologies.
It would appear that the ICAO proposal for an increase of the maximum age for pilots from age 60 to age 65 was formally approved on 10th March and takes effect from 23rd November 2006.
See text from the ICAO website below:
Age limit for flight crew
Amendment 167 to Annex 1
The ICAO Council adopted on 10 March 2006 an amendment to Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing that increases by five years the upper age limit for commercial pilots operating two-pilot aircraft. The new provisions become applicable on 23 November 2006 and read as follows:
2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.
2.1.10.2 Recommendation.— A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday.
Practical effects
Article 33 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation (signed in Chicago, it is often quoted as the ‘Chicago Convention’) limits the international recognition of flight crew licences to those who are in full compliance with the Standards of Annex 1 (note that paragraph 2.1.10.1 is a Standard). As a result, until 23 November 2006, even if an individual State authorizes a pilot-in-command (PIC) to fly in commercial air transport operations when over the age of 60 (65 from 23 November) that authorization can only be given for flights within that State’s national airspace. This is because no State can force another State to accept its own deviation from an ICAO Standard. Article 33 does not apply to the co-pilot as paragraph 2.1.10.2 is a Recommendation, not a Standard.
Articles 39 and 40 of the Convention are also relevant to the age limit of pilots-in-command engaged in commercial air transport operations as they authorize international flights by flight crew who do not meet all international licensing Standards, provided that an authorization is given by each State into which the aircraft is operated.
In practice, this means that if a pilot in command is under the age specified in paragraph 2.1.10.1 (60 years at present and 65 from November 2006) he cannot be prevented by reason of age from operating into any ICAO Contracting State. Further, once he has reached the specified age, he may still operate as PIC, subject to certain conditions:
For co-pilots, since paragraph 2.1.10.2 is a Recommendation, not a Standard, the upper age limit is set by the national Licensing Authority which can choose to impose any national age limit on the licenses it issues, as there are no international restrictions based on age for co-pilots.
When over 60, a six-monthly medical examination will be necessary (ICAO specifies an annual medical for those under 60 years who are engaged in two-pilot operations). For single-pilot commercial air transport operations, the upper age limit remains at 60 years.
Most of the States that have authorized their pilots to fly as pilot-in-command in commercial air transport operations after they reach the age specified in 2.1.10.1 also authorize pilots holding a license issued or validated by another States to fly in their own airspace under the same condition. However, ICAO does not collect information on States authorizing pilots to fly in their airspace after reaching the age of 60 and cannot provide information on the subject. Pilots seeking such information are advised to contact individual Civil Aviation Authorities.
If this is old news then please accept my apologies.
It would appear that the ICAO proposal for an increase of the maximum age for pilots from age 60 to age 65 was formally approved on 10th March and takes effect from 23rd November 2006.
See text from the ICAO website below:
Age limit for flight crew
Amendment 167 to Annex 1
The ICAO Council adopted on 10 March 2006 an amendment to Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing that increases by five years the upper age limit for commercial pilots operating two-pilot aircraft. The new provisions become applicable on 23 November 2006 and read as follows:
2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.
2.1.10.2 Recommendation.— A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday.
Practical effects
Article 33 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation (signed in Chicago, it is often quoted as the ‘Chicago Convention’) limits the international recognition of flight crew licences to those who are in full compliance with the Standards of Annex 1 (note that paragraph 2.1.10.1 is a Standard). As a result, until 23 November 2006, even if an individual State authorizes a pilot-in-command (PIC) to fly in commercial air transport operations when over the age of 60 (65 from 23 November) that authorization can only be given for flights within that State’s national airspace. This is because no State can force another State to accept its own deviation from an ICAO Standard. Article 33 does not apply to the co-pilot as paragraph 2.1.10.2 is a Recommendation, not a Standard.
Articles 39 and 40 of the Convention are also relevant to the age limit of pilots-in-command engaged in commercial air transport operations as they authorize international flights by flight crew who do not meet all international licensing Standards, provided that an authorization is given by each State into which the aircraft is operated.
In practice, this means that if a pilot in command is under the age specified in paragraph 2.1.10.1 (60 years at present and 65 from November 2006) he cannot be prevented by reason of age from operating into any ICAO Contracting State. Further, once he has reached the specified age, he may still operate as PIC, subject to certain conditions:
1. his/her national Licensing Authority permits it; and,
2. operations are undertaken only in national airspace; unless,
3. another State has given specific authorization that such flights are permitted in its airspace.
A State may wish to impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1. It may do this for the licenses it issues, but, as stated above, it cannot prevent an aircraft operated by a PIC holding a licence from another State, who is below the ICAO upper limit, from operating in its airspace.2. operations are undertaken only in national airspace; unless,
3. another State has given specific authorization that such flights are permitted in its airspace.
For co-pilots, since paragraph 2.1.10.2 is a Recommendation, not a Standard, the upper age limit is set by the national Licensing Authority which can choose to impose any national age limit on the licenses it issues, as there are no international restrictions based on age for co-pilots.
When over 60, a six-monthly medical examination will be necessary (ICAO specifies an annual medical for those under 60 years who are engaged in two-pilot operations). For single-pilot commercial air transport operations, the upper age limit remains at 60 years.
Most of the States that have authorized their pilots to fly as pilot-in-command in commercial air transport operations after they reach the age specified in 2.1.10.1 also authorize pilots holding a license issued or validated by another States to fly in their own airspace under the same condition. However, ICAO does not collect information on States authorizing pilots to fly in their airspace after reaching the age of 60 and cannot provide information on the subject. Pilots seeking such information are advised to contact individual Civil Aviation Authorities.
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ICAO changes 'age 60' rule.
Can someone clarify what the position is regarding this subject.
In simple terms, when will an "over 60" be able to stay in command of a large aircraft and overfly ALL of Europe? Can France or other countries post "differences" to an ICAO ruling, and, if so, will they stand up in court?
Perhaps the "Flying Lawyer" would like to comment.
In simple terms, when will an "over 60" be able to stay in command of a large aircraft and overfly ALL of Europe? Can France or other countries post "differences" to an ICAO ruling, and, if so, will they stand up in court?
Perhaps the "Flying Lawyer" would like to comment.
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The answers to your questions are, from the end of November this year; yes; and yes, but any such difference will only affect French licence holders. Overflights of France by licence holders of other states who are over sixty will be permitted.
But don't simply take it from me. Get the answer direct from ICAO. The URL where you will find the answers all of your questions is http://www.icao.int/cgi/goto_m_anb.p...eltrgFAQ.htm#1
But don't simply take it from me. Get the answer direct from ICAO. The URL where you will find the answers all of your questions is http://www.icao.int/cgi/goto_m_anb.p...eltrgFAQ.htm#1
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Age 60
While the new ICAO ruling is quite clear about about how it will be applied it will be interesting to see how the FAA react to over 60's flying in US airspace. Airlines operating into the USA do so under FAA Part 129 Foreign Carriers Ops Specs which have the age 60 restriction for PIC.
So which rule takes precedence - the new ICAO or the existing FAA?
So which rule takes precedence - the new ICAO or the existing FAA?
Last edited by dbmidway; 12th Apr 2006 at 05:22.
Transparency International
From the Chicago Convention (ICAO founding document):
Article 33
Recognition of certificates and licenses
Certificates of airworthiness and certificates of competency and licenses issued or rendered valid by the contracting State in which the aircraft is registered, shall be recognized as valid by the other contracting States, provided that the requirements under which such certificates or licenses were issued or rendered valid are equal to or above the minimum standards which may be established from time to time pursuant to this Convention.
Recognition of certificates and licenses
Certificates of airworthiness and certificates of competency and licenses issued or rendered valid by the contracting State in which the aircraft is registered, shall be recognized as valid by the other contracting States, provided that the requirements under which such certificates or licenses were issued or rendered valid are equal to or above the minimum standards which may be established from time to time pursuant to this Convention.
Last edited by dusk2dawn; 12th Apr 2006 at 19:40. Reason: Spelling et al.
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Since 'no State can force another State to accept its own deviation from an ICAO Standard', from 23 November 2006 the US will not be able to prevent a foreign carrier from operating in its airspace with a PIC aged up to 64. The following is the relevant extract from the ICAO website:
A State may wish to impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1. It may do this for the licenses it issues, but, as stated above, it cannot prevent an aircraft operated by a PIC holding a licence from another State, who is below the ICAO upper limit, from operating in its airspace.
Regards,
Mel
A State may wish to impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1. It may do this for the licenses it issues, but, as stated above, it cannot prevent an aircraft operated by a PIC holding a licence from another State, who is below the ICAO upper limit, from operating in its airspace.
Regards,
Mel
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I checked out the link posted by keep_pushing and it looks like the statements are coflicting... for one, it says the authorization can only be in the authorizing state's airspace and/or the airspace of other states that have or will allow such flights in their airspace and then the same statement goes on to say...
"A State may wish to impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1. It may do this for the licenses it issues, but, as stated above, it cannot prevent an aircraft operated by a PIC holding a licence from another State, who is below the ICAO upper limit, from operating in its airspace."
which is which??
"A State may wish to impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1. It may do this for the licenses it issues, but, as stated above, it cannot prevent an aircraft operated by a PIC holding a licence from another State, who is below the ICAO upper limit, from operating in its airspace."
which is which??
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ICAO/FAA & 60
Seems there was an Article posted recently, as I recall from a US Major Carrier Capt outlining the recent Senate (or another house) VOTE on implementing the ICAO over 60 Rule for FAA License holders, delivery date 30 days post ICAO Vote in Nov 06.
Much Lobbying was done by the Pilot Body in support but as I recall the "no" vote won,totally unexpectantly.
That being the case if you are operating on a Validation of a FAA License,it ceases at 60yrs irrespective of the country of Validations own Age Ruling...........Anyone remember the House Ruling Vote article?
Cheers.
Much Lobbying was done by the Pilot Body in support but as I recall the "no" vote won,totally unexpectantly.
That being the case if you are operating on a Validation of a FAA License,it ceases at 60yrs irrespective of the country of Validations own Age Ruling...........Anyone remember the House Ruling Vote article?
Cheers.
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>>That being the case if you are operating on a Validation of a FAA License,it ceases at 60yrs irrespective of the country of Validations own Age Ruling.<<
Ah, actually no.
The FAA ATPL does not have an expiration date, quite unlike many other authorities.
If you pass the first class medical, and are current in check, the license is still valid, with no age restriction whatsoever.
A rather good system actually.
The FAA age 60 rule affects ONLY 14CFR121 certificated airline operations by US aircarriers.
For example, it does not prohibit an age 60+ pilot from operating a rather large business jet under 14CFR135 (charter, common carriage), nor the same pilot from operating a private jet airliner that is certificated for ops under 14CFR125, so long as it is not used for common carriage.
A very practical system.
Ah, actually no.
The FAA ATPL does not have an expiration date, quite unlike many other authorities.
If you pass the first class medical, and are current in check, the license is still valid, with no age restriction whatsoever.
A rather good system actually.
The FAA age 60 rule affects ONLY 14CFR121 certificated airline operations by US aircarriers.
For example, it does not prohibit an age 60+ pilot from operating a rather large business jet under 14CFR135 (charter, common carriage), nor the same pilot from operating a private jet airliner that is certificated for ops under 14CFR125, so long as it is not used for common carriage.
A very practical system.
Last edited by 411A; 13th Apr 2006 at 06:08.
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FAA Cabin Crew age limit
1) Is there an upper age limit for FAA pt 121, for their cabin crew...???
2) Outside the USA. I am FAA/JAA ATP Captain reaching 60 in 2008. As the new regulation stands, (after 07), I thus believe I can operate a Gulfstream as Captain, on A VP-C registration, as Cayman is biased towards JAA regulations, but not on a N registered similar aircraft.
3) In regard to France, can I now (after 07) opperate from the UK and fly over France and even perhaps land in paris, acting as Captain.
Or is Pierre still able to say NON.
Bumz
2) Outside the USA. I am FAA/JAA ATP Captain reaching 60 in 2008. As the new regulation stands, (after 07), I thus believe I can operate a Gulfstream as Captain, on A VP-C registration, as Cayman is biased towards JAA regulations, but not on a N registered similar aircraft.
3) In regard to France, can I now (after 07) opperate from the UK and fly over France and even perhaps land in paris, acting as Captain.
Or is Pierre still able to say NON.
Bumz
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411
Originally Posted by 411A
>>That being the case if you are operating on a Validation of a FAA License,it ceases at 60yrs irrespective of the country of Validations own Age Ruling.<<
Ah, actually no.
The FAA ATPL does not have an expiration date, quite unlike many other authorities.
If you pass the first class medical, and are current in check, the license is still valid, with no age restriction whatsoever.
A rather good system actually.
The FAA age 6by US aircarriers.
0 rule affects ONLY 14CFR121 certificated airline operations For example, it does not prohibit an age 60+ pilot from operating a rather large business jet under 14CFR135 (charter, common carriage), nor the same pilot from operating a private jet airliner that is certificated for ops under 14CFR125, so long as it is not used for common carriage.
A very practical system.
Ah, actually no.
The FAA ATPL does not have an expiration date, quite unlike many other authorities.
If you pass the first class medical, and are current in check, the license is still valid, with no age restriction whatsoever.
A rather good system actually.
The FAA age 6by US aircarriers.
0 rule affects ONLY 14CFR121 certificated airline operations For example, it does not prohibit an age 60+ pilot from operating a rather large business jet under 14CFR135 (charter, common carriage), nor the same pilot from operating a private jet airliner that is certificated for ops under 14CFR125, so long as it is not used for common carriage.
A very practical system.
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1)No FAA age limit for cabin crew for 14CFR121 certificated operations, and this can be proven by looking at some of the grandma's on some NWA and UAL flights.
2)Now, with your FAA ATPL license, you can operate that 'N' registered Gulfstream 'til you're 80 (if you like) provided you can pass the standard FAA medical (First or second class, depending) and can pass the yearly check.
The oldest business jet Captain I personally know is 72, but there may indeed be older similar pilots
3) Pierre will learn three new words....button your lip
In the same ballpark, Vagabond 747.
Altho pilots of US aircarriers will still be limited to age 60 in the USA, they can certainly go overseas and continue to fly until 65, at other airlines, provided the concerned CAA's allow.
2)Now, with your FAA ATPL license, you can operate that 'N' registered Gulfstream 'til you're 80 (if you like) provided you can pass the standard FAA medical (First or second class, depending) and can pass the yearly check.
The oldest business jet Captain I personally know is 72, but there may indeed be older similar pilots
3) Pierre will learn three new words....button your lip
In the same ballpark, Vagabond 747.
Altho pilots of US aircarriers will still be limited to age 60 in the USA, they can certainly go overseas and continue to fly until 65, at other airlines, provided the concerned CAA's allow.
Last edited by 411A; 13th Apr 2006 at 06:46.
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I don't think that you'll be able to operate into or over territory over age 65 unless you have the specific permission of that state.
Article 33 guarantees your right to operate freely provided your licence meets the ICAO Annex 1 provisions.
Article 33 guarantees your right to operate freely provided your licence meets the ICAO Annex 1 provisions.
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I think what is going to interesting is to see what countries like the US, France and other will do in respect of their own pilots in the face of foreign pilots being permitted to operate within those countires without restriction.
As of 23rd November, the statement limiting the pilots' age to 60 as set out in the FAA foreign carrier permits will become null and void.
More interestingly how will Duane Worth react!!!!!!
As of 23rd November, the statement limiting the pilots' age to 60 as set out in the FAA foreign carrier permits will become null and void.
More interestingly how will Duane Worth react!!!!!!
Last edited by packsonflite; 13th Apr 2006 at 07:02.
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Originally Posted by 411A
In the same ballpark, Vagabond 747.
Altho pilots of US aircarriers will still be limited to age 60 in the USA, they can certainly go overseas and continue to fly until 65, at other airlines, provided the concerned CAA's allow.
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Any that allow pilots to fly to 65, Vagabond, in their normal airline operations, in conformity with ICAO, at the time the switch is made in November, unless they file an exception to the ICAO rules.
Indeed, right now some states have have the 65 rule, and permit an FAA license holder to hold a validation.
It really is quite clear.
Indeed, right now some states have have the 65 rule, and permit an FAA license holder to hold a validation.
It really is quite clear.
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In this case, Vagabond, that is their right, under ICAO, by issuing an exception for their validations.
But, they will no longer be able to prevent others from overflying/landing, provided they are signatories to ICAO in the first place...as nearly all are.
But, they will no longer be able to prevent others from overflying/landing, provided they are signatories to ICAO in the first place...as nearly all are.