380 Evac test
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Yes, adding a requirement that the decks may not be considered independent for evacuation would significantly affect the test.
So would, for that matter, concealing the cameras that monitor the "good" exits (have they done that yet?), or filling the aircraft with unsuspecting passengers instead of semi-trained personnel.
But, well, that's not the point. The test, like many others, is artificial. It doesn't simulate real world conditions any more than a Blood Alcohol level tells you how well someone can drive: if it's .20, they can't drive; if it's .04, they might be perfectly good drivers, or they might be horrible ones. But, like the BAC it is an objective benchmark that can be used for making safety determinations. Unlike the BAC, however, it's a benchmark that seems to get more generous with each generation of aircraft. That does not make the planes "less safe".
Didn't it use to be 45 seconds?
Anyway, inspite of what those of us who see those upper-deck slides snaking down and around the lower-deck ones, even if this broken leg and uninflated slide meant a test failure doesn't mean serious safety problems (yet). But, no offense to the mad-dog, bringing up the MD-11 as similar example in terms of safety won't appease the "Skytanic" crowd. The MD-11, along with its DC-10 heritage, could be argued to have dealt the final blow both to its manufacturer and an airline on its perceived lack of safety. The Airbus people cannot afford to build an 880-seat MD-11.
So would, for that matter, concealing the cameras that monitor the "good" exits (have they done that yet?), or filling the aircraft with unsuspecting passengers instead of semi-trained personnel.
But, well, that's not the point. The test, like many others, is artificial. It doesn't simulate real world conditions any more than a Blood Alcohol level tells you how well someone can drive: if it's .20, they can't drive; if it's .04, they might be perfectly good drivers, or they might be horrible ones. But, like the BAC it is an objective benchmark that can be used for making safety determinations. Unlike the BAC, however, it's a benchmark that seems to get more generous with each generation of aircraft. That does not make the planes "less safe".
Didn't it use to be 45 seconds?
Anyway, inspite of what those of us who see those upper-deck slides snaking down and around the lower-deck ones, even if this broken leg and uninflated slide meant a test failure doesn't mean serious safety problems (yet). But, no offense to the mad-dog, bringing up the MD-11 as similar example in terms of safety won't appease the "Skytanic" crowd. The MD-11, along with its DC-10 heritage, could be argued to have dealt the final blow both to its manufacturer and an airline on its perceived lack of safety. The Airbus people cannot afford to build an 880-seat MD-11.
Humus Motor
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Originally Posted by AlphaWhiskyRomeo
I am always surpised how many people are actually injured by the evacuation process itself.
I talk it that leg breaks occur when people hit the floor at the bottom of a slide???
I talk it that leg breaks occur when people hit the floor at the bottom of a slide???
As for the actual injuries, I guess that quite a few are as you say, caused by the impact at the end of the slide, but additionally, in real events people are sometimes evacuating from damaged aircraft with sharp edges, debris - and sometimes fire.
I was involved in one of these practise evacuations. Never again. The chap in front of me hit the base of his spine hard when the girl in front of him got a foot caught in the slide as she ran off, and took it sideways with her as she ran off (the slide, not the foot - that was still attached to her leg.)
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Originally Posted by DingerX
Unlike the BAC, however, it's a benchmark that seems to get more generous with each generation of aircraft. That does not make the planes "less safe".
Didn't it use to be 45 seconds?
Didn't it use to be 45 seconds?
The timing was originally 120 seconds, likely to account for the "state of the art" canvass chutes that were in use at the time, which required a couple of able-bodied folks to climb down ropes and hold the chute at the bottom.
The 90-second benchmark was introduced some time around 1967.
What a great result for Airbus! Algy, thanks for the link to the blog.
And cwatters, what would be the option to people from the local gym, pulling them off the street? Yes, of course, the typical cross-section of pax on a flight will probably be more like people off the street but, surely, neither the certification authorities nor the manufacturers want to incur the injuries a test with that cross-section would involve. People from a gym are not, on the whole, athletes, rather, normal people who want to keep in or return to reasonable physical shape, at least at the gyms I've frequented. It makes sense to use them.
I wonder what sort of sweeteners Airbus will be offering the fellow who broke a leg!
And cwatters, what would be the option to people from the local gym, pulling them off the street? Yes, of course, the typical cross-section of pax on a flight will probably be more like people off the street but, surely, neither the certification authorities nor the manufacturers want to incur the injuries a test with that cross-section would involve. People from a gym are not, on the whole, athletes, rather, normal people who want to keep in or return to reasonable physical shape, at least at the gyms I've frequented. It makes sense to use them.
I wonder what sort of sweeteners Airbus will be offering the fellow who broke a leg!
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Impressive work by Airbus =)
Here's the CNN story:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/03/26....ap/index.html
Here's the CNN story:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/03/26....ap/index.html
Algy,
<<Then a sort-of comic comes in and talks in German. I laugh when everyone else does. >>
That is dangerous. Have you never read the story of Herr Slossen Boschen from Three Men In A Boat?
LO
<<Then a sort-of comic comes in and talks in German. I laugh when everyone else does. >>
That is dangerous. Have you never read the story of Herr Slossen Boschen from Three Men In A Boat?
LO
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Algy: my mistake. The initial news reports were not good. "Airbus calls off test early due to injury", "slide collapses" and so on. I was in the middle of spewing pompous blather when you posted the link to your excellent account (which answers a few of my other questions).
heck, even now, the headlines read:
"32 Hurt in Airbus Test Evacuation", "Volunteers Injured in Airbus Test"
If I were boeing, I'd be sending a nice gift to the editors who came up with those headlines.
CD: Thank you for the corrections.
heck, even now, the headlines read:
"32 Hurt in Airbus Test Evacuation", "Volunteers Injured in Airbus Test"
If I were boeing, I'd be sending a nice gift to the editors who came up with those headlines.
CD: Thank you for the corrections.
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A380 successfully completes evacuation test
26 March 2006
Airbus successfully completed the passenger evacuation trial on development A380 MSN7, paving the way for the Authorities to certify the aircraft in time for delivery by the end of 2006. During the trial, all of the 873 participants were able to leave the aircraft and reach ground within the 90 seconds prescribed, with half of the 16 doors in operations. The trial was performed under the supervision of the European Aviation and Safety Agency EASA and a representation of the American FAA.
The Airworthiness Authorities will now thoroughly review the material available, analyse the passenger flow on the two decks, and the evacuation itself.
"There was one passenger suffering a broken leg and few minor injuries. We will support them in every way we can," said Airbus COO and Head of A380 programme Charles Champion. "Although the final number as confirmed by the Authority will only be known in a few days, we are very happy with this result. It clears the way for the transportation of passengers as defined by our initial customers who all have selected very comfortable three class layouts. And even in a higher density two class layout, the A380 cabin will continue to set new standards of comfort."
The evacuation trial was the most stringent ever performed and the first ever on a passenger aircraft with two decks. The aircraft was fitted with a very high density cabin layout, featuring 853 seats which were all occupied. In addition there were two cockpit crew members and 18 cabin crews from Lufthansa on board to manage the evacuation in a representative way. The trial was performed in darkness, yet filmed by infrared cameras. The doors and slides that were operative were not known before the trial.
The "passengers" having suffered injuries when arriving on the ground were immediately taken care of by the medical emergency and first aid service available on the site. Airbus will of course provide all the support required to the injured person who were covered by a special insurance.
The A380 is designed to carry an average of 555 passengers in three classes over distances up to 8,000 nm/ 15,000 km. To-date, 159 A380s have been ordered by 16 customers, with the first due to be delivered to first operator Singapore Airlines before the end of the year.
Airbus is an EADS joint company with BAE Systems.
26 March 2006
Airbus successfully completed the passenger evacuation trial on development A380 MSN7, paving the way for the Authorities to certify the aircraft in time for delivery by the end of 2006. During the trial, all of the 873 participants were able to leave the aircraft and reach ground within the 90 seconds prescribed, with half of the 16 doors in operations. The trial was performed under the supervision of the European Aviation and Safety Agency EASA and a representation of the American FAA.
The Airworthiness Authorities will now thoroughly review the material available, analyse the passenger flow on the two decks, and the evacuation itself.
"There was one passenger suffering a broken leg and few minor injuries. We will support them in every way we can," said Airbus COO and Head of A380 programme Charles Champion. "Although the final number as confirmed by the Authority will only be known in a few days, we are very happy with this result. It clears the way for the transportation of passengers as defined by our initial customers who all have selected very comfortable three class layouts. And even in a higher density two class layout, the A380 cabin will continue to set new standards of comfort."
The evacuation trial was the most stringent ever performed and the first ever on a passenger aircraft with two decks. The aircraft was fitted with a very high density cabin layout, featuring 853 seats which were all occupied. In addition there were two cockpit crew members and 18 cabin crews from Lufthansa on board to manage the evacuation in a representative way. The trial was performed in darkness, yet filmed by infrared cameras. The doors and slides that were operative were not known before the trial.
The "passengers" having suffered injuries when arriving on the ground were immediately taken care of by the medical emergency and first aid service available on the site. Airbus will of course provide all the support required to the injured person who were covered by a special insurance.
The A380 is designed to carry an average of 555 passengers in three classes over distances up to 8,000 nm/ 15,000 km. To-date, 159 A380s have been ordered by 16 customers, with the first due to be delivered to first operator Singapore Airlines before the end of the year.
Airbus is an EADS joint company with BAE Systems.
Bear Behind
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Well that's that, then...
Well that closes the debate then, I suppose.
AUTHORITIES APPROVE A380 SUCCESSFUL EVACUATION TRIAL
29th March 2006
The European Aviation and Safety Agency (EASA) and the American Federal Aviation Administration, FAA gave their “seal of approval” to the successful A380evacuation trial performed at Airbus’ site in Hamburg, Germany, on Sunday, 26th March, during which 853 passengers and 20 crew members left the aircraft within 78 seconds. They herewith validated 853 as the maximum passenger seating capacity, for the A380-800.
As per regulation, the evacuation test was performed in complete darkness through only half of the 16 exits of the A380. The exits that had been selected by the Authorities to be operative were not known to any of the passengers and crew before the test.
“This is an exceptional result and a remarkable success for Airbus. We have passed a major milestone on the road to Certification.” said Airbus COO and Head of A380 programme Charles Champion. “I would like to thank all participants, the crew and all teams who worked for months on this exercise. They did a fantastic job”.
The evacuation test was the most stringent ever performed and the first ever on a double-deck passenger aircraft. The aircraft was fitted with the highest possible density cabin layout. In addition there were two flight crew members and 18 cabin crews from Lufthansa on board to manage the evacuation in a representative way.
The A380 is designed to carry an average of 555 passengers in a three class layout over distances up to 8,000 nm/ 15,000 km. To-date, 159 A380s have been ordered by 16 customers, with the first due to be delivered to first operator Singapore Airlines before the end of the year.
Airbus is an EADS joint company with BAE Systems.
AUTHORITIES APPROVE A380 SUCCESSFUL EVACUATION TRIAL
29th March 2006
The European Aviation and Safety Agency (EASA) and the American Federal Aviation Administration, FAA gave their “seal of approval” to the successful A380evacuation trial performed at Airbus’ site in Hamburg, Germany, on Sunday, 26th March, during which 853 passengers and 20 crew members left the aircraft within 78 seconds. They herewith validated 853 as the maximum passenger seating capacity, for the A380-800.
As per regulation, the evacuation test was performed in complete darkness through only half of the 16 exits of the A380. The exits that had been selected by the Authorities to be operative were not known to any of the passengers and crew before the test.
“This is an exceptional result and a remarkable success for Airbus. We have passed a major milestone on the road to Certification.” said Airbus COO and Head of A380 programme Charles Champion. “I would like to thank all participants, the crew and all teams who worked for months on this exercise. They did a fantastic job”.
The evacuation test was the most stringent ever performed and the first ever on a double-deck passenger aircraft. The aircraft was fitted with the highest possible density cabin layout. In addition there were two flight crew members and 18 cabin crews from Lufthansa on board to manage the evacuation in a representative way.
The A380 is designed to carry an average of 555 passengers in a three class layout over distances up to 8,000 nm/ 15,000 km. To-date, 159 A380s have been ordered by 16 customers, with the first due to be delivered to first operator Singapore Airlines before the end of the year.
Airbus is an EADS joint company with BAE Systems.
Bear Behind
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Full Flight - Boom boom! Sorry, couldn't resist...
You are, of course, correct, and I suppose it will continue unabated. However, it's done now, the approval's there and that part of the certification dossier has the stamp. All that will be left are conspiracy theories but we all know about them, don't we. It must certainly have been an experience to be there on the day! You say you were wearing the last numbered bib (853, I suppose) - but what number out of the dorr were you?!
Even FOCAL has given his word on the subject and, though he couldn't resist another dig, he had to admit that the A380 came through - what more proof do you need!
You are, of course, correct, and I suppose it will continue unabated. However, it's done now, the approval's there and that part of the certification dossier has the stamp. All that will be left are conspiracy theories but we all know about them, don't we. It must certainly have been an experience to be there on the day! You say you were wearing the last numbered bib (853, I suppose) - but what number out of the dorr were you?!
Even FOCAL has given his word on the subject and, though he couldn't resist another dig, he had to admit that the A380 came through - what more proof do you need!
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Thanks Algy for the great reports.
In an earlier life I was an officer on big passenger ships. In an emergency we were faced with the safe evacuation of up to 3,500 passengers and crew (on the old Oriana) using only half the boats available but a lot more time to do it in.
I've flown a lot over the past 30 years or so and (touch wood) have never been involved in an evacuation. I hope I never have to in 'real' circumstances.
It may have been a test but the speed element would still have been there and to get that many people out in such a short time is really impressive.
Only two other things to say. (1) How soon before the first airline crams 853 poor souls into an A380 and (2) You're going to have to get a new nic Keiron
In an earlier life I was an officer on big passenger ships. In an emergency we were faced with the safe evacuation of up to 3,500 passengers and crew (on the old Oriana) using only half the boats available but a lot more time to do it in.
I've flown a lot over the past 30 years or so and (touch wood) have never been involved in an evacuation. I hope I never have to in 'real' circumstances.
It may have been a test but the speed element would still have been there and to get that many people out in such a short time is really impressive.
Only two other things to say. (1) How soon before the first airline crams 853 poor souls into an A380 and (2) You're going to have to get a new nic Keiron
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I was betting on fewer than 750 out (and lost ) , but then I had a hunch that all of the fit and focused volunteers would thrust their way out of the behemoth within a minute and a half.
Congratulations Airbus on this !
The slides tell the story - and shows how e-a-s-y it may have been to evac so many so quickly:
Congratulations Airbus on this !
The slides tell the story - and shows how e-a-s-y it may have been to evac so many so quickly:
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Though the simulation was conducted inside a hangar, he said Airbus sought to make it as realistic as possible, strewing debris in the aisles.
The mad scramble to get £1,000 would be similar to the mad scramble of someone running for their life.