Ryanair B738 loss of situational awareness and terrain clearance 07/09/05
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Ryanair B738 loss of situational awareness and terrain clearance 07/09/05
There is a report in the evening herald (dublin) today which says that a ryanair captain froze on approach to rome's fiumicino airport. It says that on approach in bad weather with the autopilot off the captain had neither configured the plane for landing nor was it in a safe position from which a landing could be madde (whatever taht means).
The report says that the co-pilot prompted the the captain to see if he was in control and, receiving no response, took control, climbed, and diverted to another airport where the plane landed safely.
The source is 'an internal ryainair report'.
The report says that the co-pilot prompted the the captain to see if he was in control and, receiving no response, took control, climbed, and diverted to another airport where the plane landed safely.
The source is 'an internal ryainair report'.
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Never let truth get in the way of a good story, Chapter 12.
Before the predictable tirade of Ryanair abuse begins, and the shrill squeaks of the terminally aggrieved rise to their customary crescendo, a review of the facts are in order. This man shouldn't have been flying at all, having suffered the death of a child in very recent days preceding this incident. The question is, why was he flying? His decision to report for duty is the relevant issue here. Once again, individual responsibility, or something that Ryanair is somehow responsible for? As maxalt, Minuteman and the evidently state educated Dim Repa are doubtless sharpening their talons as I type, I'll be brief. Subsequent to the incident, the crew was suspended pending investigation. They both received professional counselling, both were assigned a significant period of simulation to regain their confidence and composure and both have been returned to line flying. Hardly the conduct of an uncaring irresponsible employer, eh max?
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
It does beg the question of whether he felt he 'had' to report for duty. Whether, that's true or not, he still should have been sent home when he did report.
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
Leo, the title of your post was "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story".
Which part of my post, or the evening herald report, is untrue?
You can't really blame ryanair for not sending the guy home when he reported, he may have showed no signs of distress. Perhaps not many people even knew of the death of his child.
The relevant question is, of course, whether or not he felt that his career would have suffered as a result of declaring himself unfit to fly.
Which part of my post, or the evening herald report, is untrue?
You can't really blame ryanair for not sending the guy home when he reported, he may have showed no signs of distress. Perhaps not many people even knew of the death of his child.
The relevant question is, of course, whether or not he felt that his career would have suffered as a result of declaring himself unfit to fly.
Warning Toxic!
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
How very, very sad. On top of the tragedy, the unfortunate individual had to self-assess his condition and suitability to fly right at the very time when his judgement was so very clouded. But that is how the industry is. Not that one can ever recover from such a terrible event, I hope his life has got back to a semblance of normality. Sadly such possibilities are planned for in crew procedures and they worked well to ensure everybodies safety. The lesson we must learn is to not listen too much to the voice telling us to get back to work.
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
both have been returned to line flying
Hardly the conduct of an uncaring irresponsible employer
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
I listened to MOL interview on RTE Radio this morning ( Can be downloaded on www.rte.ie) he was calm and composed about the incident and felt that procedures had worked and the only changes to Ryanair operational procedures is that all Pilots who suffer bereavment must take compassionate leave and return when appropriate.
It's great that the system worked and the First Officer had the balls to take control just having 470 hours under his belt.
There is a lesson in this for us all !! lets hope that the publication of the incident helps all aviators.
Cliste
It's great that the system worked and the First Officer had the balls to take control just having 470 hours under his belt.
There is a lesson in this for us all !! lets hope that the publication of the incident helps all aviators.
Cliste
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
Which part of my post, or the evening herald report, is untrue?
Controversial, moi?
Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
Well done the co-pilot.
A nasty situation for both. Unfortunately the last person to recognise their lack of fitness to fly is the person suffering mental trauma brought about by such sad personal tragedy.
vfenext your comments are beneath contempt.
A nasty situation for both. Unfortunately the last person to recognise their lack of fitness to fly is the person suffering mental trauma brought about by such sad personal tragedy.
vfenext your comments are beneath contempt.
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
M.Mouse:
well said about vfenext, not only below the belt but unbecomming any pilot!
Leo:
Clearly you have taken the occurrence serious and you have made sure proper corrective action has been taken. I agree that this is an incident that could have happened irrespective to FR being the employer. Obviously there was no other way for you to react.
The final question would be however is FR taking any interest in it's crew and their personal life? and would doing so have helped to prevent this occurrence?
The general feeling is that FR don's give a F..., and everyone is focussed on flying and making money. The FO saved his and your ass. Again prove of the fact that FR safety relies on crew only, othet possible defences are not considered. WAKE-UP!! and ask yourself where you would have been if the FO had not taken the control.
Crew involved: The best of luck to you!
well said about vfenext, not only below the belt but unbecomming any pilot!
Leo:
Clearly you have taken the occurrence serious and you have made sure proper corrective action has been taken. I agree that this is an incident that could have happened irrespective to FR being the employer. Obviously there was no other way for you to react.
The final question would be however is FR taking any interest in it's crew and their personal life? and would doing so have helped to prevent this occurrence?
The general feeling is that FR don's give a F..., and everyone is focussed on flying and making money. The FO saved his and your ass. Again prove of the fact that FR safety relies on crew only, othet possible defences are not considered. WAKE-UP!! and ask yourself where you would have been if the FO had not taken the control.
Crew involved: The best of luck to you!
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
A desperately sad situation for the captain concerned. As one of those who is naturally ill-disposed towards Ryanair I would love to find fault, but it seems to me that in this case they have acted reasonably and with commendable compassion. This particular case is actually nothing to do with Ryanair per se - this could have been any airline anywhere. It shows how absolutely critical the two pilot concept is and the FO is to be praised for recovering this extremely disconcerting situation. In an incident when there is a clear breakdown of one of the key safety systems in a civil aircraft, that is the captain's judgement, then the last stop is the FO. In this case his actions undoubtedly saved the day, but we should see this as a victory and not a defeat. He is employed for just such a moment as this and the system was shown to work - and work well. It is almost impossible to legislate for what happened here. Frankly, had this been the Middle East or Asia with an FO of a totally different mindset, then the result could have been very different.
It is easy in moments such as this to point the finger. My own view is that we should rejoice that the system put in place as the last line of defence worked correctly. My personal best wishes to the individuals involved.
It is easy in moments such as this to point the finger. My own view is that we should rejoice that the system put in place as the last line of defence worked correctly. My personal best wishes to the individuals involved.
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
The radio report can be heard here. It starts at 1:51:50 in. Link will only be valid for a few more hours.
Typical excitable journo...
Typical excitable journo...
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
Yes ladies and gentlemen,such a benign incident that the chief pilot is on record as saying he couldn't sleep when advised of the details.Leo caw-caw all you like buddy the truth is out there.A real caring and responsible employer,you must be slipping under the pressure.
Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
Subsequent to the incident, the crew was suspended pending investigation. They both received professional counselling, both were assigned a significant period of simulation to regain their confidence and composure and both have been returned to line flying
Is it just my naivette or I'm not getting the whole picture?
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Re: Report: Ryanair pilot "froze" mid flight
I'm afraid I am with Leo and Norman on this one. Pilot incapacitation takes many forms. I am sure that the Captain involved wasn’t aware that he was unfit to fly and had no malice aforethought. It further highlights the need to constantly improve our training in areas beyond stick and rudder. How could the company know that he had experienced such a tragedy unless he told them? Once again Ryanair have addressed the situation by asking what went wrong and how can we prevent this from happening again. Rather than blaming and sacking those involved: an action some of you appear to take issue with.The actions of the FO are to be praised and I am proud to fly with such guys. Clearly lessons have been learned from previous incidents where the FO could have intervened but didn’t. I also understand that the Captain was relatively new to Ryanair so any mistakes he made i.e. disconnecting the autopilot when the work load was so high, would have been learned elsewhere.
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Re: Report: Pilot "froze" mid flight
As an PPL and SEP, but mostly as a PAX, I only have one very clear view on this, and it is positive.
I do not expect every component on every a/c to be perfect and foolproof. We all have many back-up systems we are trained on.
For me, this includes the co-pilot.
No pilot is perfect, especially me.
Hats off to him/her for doing the right (and brave) thing.
I do not expect every component on every a/c to be perfect and foolproof. We all have many back-up systems we are trained on.
For me, this includes the co-pilot.
No pilot is perfect, especially me.
Hats off to him/her for doing the right (and brave) thing.