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Ryanair looks at Latvian licence as a way of cutting costs

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Ryanair looks at Latvian licence as a way of cutting costs

Old 18th Dec 2005, 07:37
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Not that this is "flagging out" of the fleet, but, on a nostalgia note, does anyone recall the days of the B1-11 and Romanian crews?

Did loads of them fail sim checks, or is this a "ramp legend"?
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Old 18th Dec 2005, 08:34
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Id bet a big bunch of money that this thing is about subsidies from the EU and if he can better ones than those still paid for Irisch based companies hell be heading there. No frigging doubt about it. If such a deal would mean more flight crew duty, it would be just a bonus.
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Old 18th Dec 2005, 19:19
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Ryanair with Latvian flag?

I've checked a number of sources throughout the day and can report that they know nothing about it, or are not speaking because it is a very sensitive subject. Personally, I don't think the story is on the level, but getting all those EI planes changed to YL registration could bring in a hell of a lot of money to the Latvians and cut costs to Ryanair.

Shipwise, it was and still is a booming business for Liberia, Panama, Cyprus, Malta, etc. However, I may be wrong, but I don't think it will happen, yet I wouldn't put anything past the Latvian government, nor O'Leary.

The Transport Minister kissed O'Leary's feet and gave him a sweetheart deal to get him to fly into Riga from the woods outside of Stockholm, from the woods outside of Helsinki (Tampere) and to the woods way outside of Frankfurt. Plus, of course, to the UK and Dublin.
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 11:41
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Not that this is "flagging out" of the fleet, but, on a nostalgia note, does anyone recall the days of the B1-11 and Romanian crews?

Did loads of them fail sim checks, or is this a "ramp legend"?
Apparently the Romanian crews who came over with these aircraft were test pilots from the factory in Romania which assembled the final One-Elevens. The contract was the best paying aviation job in Romania at the time, and so they managed to pull rank and get them.

Skills were fine but their accented English was not, and they were prohibited by Ryanair from doing a PA to the pax except in an emergency situation, routine ones being done by the cabin crew. I've often wondered how poor old ATC coped with it though ! Someone at Dublin must remember.
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 13:57
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Ryanair and Tom McEnaney

Hi Faire d'income,

I don't understand you comments re Tom McEnaney

He spends most of his time bashing the staff of any Irish airline and reproducing the management spin verbatum.
This must not be the same Tom McEnaney who broke the story about the Aer Lingus management's "12 push factors" used to induce staff to leave.

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Old 19th Dec 2005, 14:35
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Tom McEnaney (and the Indo in general) do indeed have a history of reproducing verbatim whatever Ryanair says, clearly without any sort of research being done whatsoever.
For example I recall he wrote a while ago that pilots are only allowed work, I think it was 13 hours, per week - all because EW said so. Such rubbish is par for the course with the Indo.
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 15:05
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The value of accuracy

Hi CamelhAir,

I note your comment. I make every effort to ensure that the articles I write are accurate, fair, balanced and well researched.

I think that the least we can expect from anybody writing in a public forum, be that a newspaper or a bulletin board.

In relation to your particular allegation, I have performed a full database check of every article I have written for the Irish Independent over the past nine months, which is to say when I moved from the Sunday Times to the Irish Independent. The only mention I have made in that time of the hours which pilots fly is the following:

Aer Lingus was looking to increase the amount of time which pilots would fly continuously from nine hours to 9.5 hours.
This article related to a discussion going on between Aer Lingus and pilots. I have never written or suggested that pilots only work 13 hours a week. That's obviously nonsense.

While as prone to human error as the next person, I am particularly aware of the need to be accurate, fair and balanced when what I am saying could reflect on the reputation of an individual or business or groups of individuals, such as pilots. Perhaps you could see your way to returning the courtesy.

I accept the need for some participants in a forum such as this one to be anonymous but I would also suggest that anonymity should not be abused to made unsubstantiated attacks on a professional's reputation.

I'm not claiming any moral high ground and tend to dislike those who do but let me put it another way. How would you feel if used an anonymous post to make erroneous and unsubstantiated allegation against a named pilot, perhaps suggesting that he or she enjoys a tipple before taking off.


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Old 19th Dec 2005, 15:21
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Then I apologise. However, somebody did write an article in the Indo which did state that pilots worked some ridiculously low number of hours per work (I think the figure was around 13). The source was EW of Ryanair. The story sticks in the my mind as it was such a appalling piece of FR propaganda that had been reproduced by the paper without any checking of the facts whatsoever.
I apologise for impugning your professional reputation, I clearly am at fault for casting aspersions without checking who did actually write the article. I only wish all journalists did research their aviation related articles as well as yourself. Merry christmas!
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 15:39
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Apology accepted. I do think that extoling others to check their facts first is more than a little rich. Given that you have no doubt checked yours, can you tell me who wrote the article in question or when it was written?
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 15:55
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Oh I do so much enjoy a good grovel - especially to one of the dreaded journalists who has had the balls to step up to the wicket!
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 16:10
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Mr. McEnaney, I think you will discover that the story about the 13 hours (and others, such as the Indo repeating stuff about Ryanair pilots earning 130,000 p.a., etc) - which are taken uncritically from Ryanair Press Releases - will turn out on examination to be substantially true. While you personally may have been incorrectly "targetted", "labelled" ... or whatever you want to call it ... in this instance, there is substance to pilot concerns that the press in general has a generally uncritical perception of Ryanair Press releases and repeats them with, apparently, gay abandon.

I am making these remarks not to attack you and your valid concern about your reputation, but just to make the point that the perception incorrectly attached to yourself by CamelhAir is widespread and, if I may add my opinion, this perception is not without a fair measure of justification.
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 16:11
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Tom, as requested, here is the article in question.

Irish Indo, Thurs 17th Feb 2005.
Article by Helen Bruce and
Charlie Weston

Ryanair: 'Our pilots are being harassed'

BUDGET airline Ryanair yesterday initiated High Court proceedings against the Irish Airline Pilots Asscoiation (IALPA), claiming it was behind intimidation of its pilots.

But IALPA flatly rejected any suggestion it was harassing or intimidating Ryanair pilots and pointed out that the Labour Relations Commission has said that it will hear a complaint taken by eight of Ryanair's most senior pilots who are claiming they are being victimised by Ryanair.

This row erupted after Ryanair claimed named officials of IALPA were involved in an "organised campaign of harassment and intimidation of Ryanair pilots" via the internet.

The airline has clashed with the union a number of times since introducing a number of cost-cutting measures last year.

Many of its pilots claimed their pay and working conditions suffered, and more than half had joined IALPA and the British union BALPA by late 2004.

This latest dispute concerns the use of the Ryanair European Pilot Association (Repa) website, which Ryanair said was organised and run by IALPA officials.

Ryanair said its pilots who were considering taking up positions on its new Boeing 737-800 series planes, flying additional European routes from Dublin later this year, were coming under attack on the website. In a statement, the airline claimed threats published on the website were now the source of a formal complaint to the Garda Siochana. Ryanair's director of personnel, Eddie Wilson, added: "We will not under any circumstances allow any of our pilots or people to become the victims of an organised campaign of intimidation.

"Dublin Airport should exist for the benefit of the travelling public, and not for feather bedding the high salaries and restrictive practices of pilots, many of whom in Ryanair's case earn over 130,000 per year for a legally capped maximum of 18 flying hours a week."

But a furious head of IALPA, Captain Evan Cullen said: "I totally reject any suggestion that any IALPA official has been involved in harassment and intimidation or victimisation of anybody."

He added that after the airline raised the issue of intimidation with IALPA it had offered to have the matter resolved by a third party, but this was rejected.

You will note no attempt to correct the glaring lie about the hours per week, neither referring to a) its falseness b) its disingenuousness.
The lie about the salary is a matter for another thread.

So whilst these are clearly the words of propaganda, and were not actually written by a journo, the fact remains that a no point were these words contested. So while we here on this forum, and in FR, know what weight to attach to anything issued by managament, the general public does not. So this report now furthers FRs agenda of making pilots appear to be lazy ba$tards in the eyes of the public. Its one thing to have FR issue spin, but for it to be printed as unquestioned fact is the thing most rich around here.
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 17:05
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Outstanding Camelhair. Good job finding the article concerned. There has been a concerted effort to paint pilots as lazy, academically unqualified, over-paid wasters for years. Big A@irways started out with a film called "Jet Jockeys" made with the full connivance of Big @irways years ago. Its sole aim was to portray pilots as fools. T' management 'apologised' afterwards, gleefully aware that the damage was done.

411a and others love to drag down their own profession, but I for one am proud of mine and ever more mindful of the years of hard work it took to get there, let alone the direct accountability command carries, in contrast to the legions of deskbound critics who "armchair quarterback" commercial pilots whilst rarely being directly accountable for anything themselves at all.

At last, a long overdue fightback with the potential for strikes at E@sy, Th@mas Cook and even Big A@irways itself if the great pensions rip off is forced through. Good luck to the guys at Ry@anair in resisting the great "flagger-out", perhaps the most dangerous man in commercial aviation today, Mr M@ike O' Lairy himself.

The UK merchant fleet went forign flag, and the direct result was the Lutine bell at Lloyds ringing once a week on average as a commercial hull went down. Safe transportation systems in a highly competitive market need strong, independantly-resourced, regulation. The Uk rail industry's dismal record ought to be proof of that.

Cant see Latvia fitting that bill somehow.
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 17:37
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Well hello Tom!
We're warned that journos frequent this forum, but its interesting to see how closely it's followed! A good source of rumour Tom? Or just a lazy way to do your job?

Don't be coy Tom. The Irish Independant, and its sister-title the Sunday Independent, are populated by hacks of the most virulently right wing and anti union leanings. The Editorials never fail to put the boot in on the labour movement in Ireland, witness the recent rantings about Irish Ferries!
Moore McDowell - one of your top business "correspondents" - would put Senator Joe McCarthy to shame with his 'Reds Under The Beds' fanaticism.

But then, given that the rag is owned by (Doctor) Tony O'Reilly - a multi millionaire Irish businessman - what else would one expect?

I recall reading an outrageous article by that guttersnipe Brendan O'Connor, penned in the Sindo shortly after the lock-out of Aer Lingus pilots in May 2002, in which O'Connor professed that Aer Lingus pilots spent their overnights having cocaine fuelled parties in every city in europe and the US.
I'll never understand why IALPA didn't sue his ass for that comment, but I guess treating anything the Sindo hacks write as serious journalism would be to endow it with a credibility it doesn't merit.

Speaking of Irish Ferries Tom. All that fuss about Latvians coming to take Irish jobs - as if its something remote or unlikely in the Irish transport industry!?? Did you not think to write an article exposing the fact that Ryanairs Dublin based cabin crew are almost exclusively East European now? I heard a figure of about a dozen Irish out of a workforce of 1,000. Wheres the story on that Tom? Or would that be too anti-business, and a turn off for the boss?

Needless to say Tom, I don't buy your rags. Wouldn't waste the money.
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 17:55
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Exceedingly well done CamelhAir. In fact, I now recall that this was all part of a big "propaganda push" in which named IALPA officials, IALPA, REPA and - eventually - Captain John Goss were targeted by by Ryanair. While I have not checked recently, I have no doubt that supporting Press Releases at the time, and later, are still on the Ryanir website.

You will notice the reference to the police investigation - again a just perfect example of how Ryanair targets individuals in any way it can, so as to teach important lessons to its staff. What reporter ever followed that claim up beyond giving Ryanair an opportunity to restate it, with the press obediently reprinting the claims ?

All of this was unquestioningly reported by certain elements of the media without doing much (anything?) in the way of looking behind the outward facade and asking basic questions as to what was going on. In fact I have never seen a single press report which has tried to look behind Ryanair's manifest motivation to attack the REPA website and individuals rather than organisations - (they, of course, say that they are concerned about their pilots being intimidated and were acting to protect them. Yea verily, that is just what they say). This from the management of an airline with 250 outstanding claims of victimisation by its pilots - claims that Ryanair have done everything to block in the court system so as to avoid a hearing.

And who in the Irish Independent has been doing anything by way of reporting on these issues ?!?!? Ans: Nobody. (Feeling better, rant mode selected to OFF).
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 18:09
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have no doubt that supporting Press Releases at the time, and later, are still on the Ryanir website.
That they are; I had to check back to find the date the aforemention article was written on.
I should also mention that in response to said article, and also in response other $hite published by the Indo, I wrote letters to the editor to highlight the lies. Needless to say none were ever published.
The Indo is merely a pawn in MOL's game. Its a pity they play the role so willingly and so well.
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Old 19th Dec 2005, 18:58
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Its only a matter of time before the Latvians realise that they can charge a lot more and probably will. It would be nice if the EU mps that we vote for and pay for could actually produce some form of legilation that would protect the jobs of the workers in the countries that are most at risk from the eastern expansion, of the EU.
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Old 20th Dec 2005, 08:13
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One could imagine the cosy deal he would be getting to justify leaving the bosom of the IAA.
The IAA see no evil and hear no evil.
This is the association that likes to be seen to be really picky 'like the recent audit that requested flightplans to be printed by crews so they are more up to date.'

I have said it before and I will say it again. The IAA are incompetent so you could imagine what the Latvians would let them away with.

Take Dublin Airport. Potholes on the ramp. 5-6T for those that know it. Very poor Taxyway lines. Orange (Stop-Go-Maybe) bars that nobody knows what they mean.
I once did an airlaw exam to get an Irish Liscence and I was given a big book with all the answers scribbled on it and the examiner acknowledged it. And they are prudent??? Ha!

And I wont even mention the fact that you can drive an unroadworthy RYR 'New Generation' white van airside without any training what so ever. And the IAA allow this.

My point is the Latvians must be pretty lenient for RYR to go there. I am not concerned weather they do or don't. I aint going to believe or disbelieve anything they say. We know how reliable that is. I am going to enjoy my Xmas and RYR or Latvia will be the furthest thing from my mind. I suggest you do the same.

Merry xmas everybody.
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Old 20th Dec 2005, 09:46
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"you can drive an unroadworthy RYR 'New Generation' white van"

I'm sorry, wolly; You'll need a new bond and contract terms before you can drive that 'New Generation' white van around
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Old 20th Dec 2005, 09:48
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Soon you can drive a Lada or Skoda
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