Ryanair Unsafe ?? I don't think so

[sean1982]

Ireland-based Ryanair will implement the Maintenance Performance Toolbox from Boeing, an innovative set of performance-enhancing solutions for aircraft maintenance and troubleshooting. Accessible via an Internet browser as a secured, hosted service, the Maintenance Toolbox is a key component within Boeing's evolving portfolio of solutions for aircraft maintenance.

The Maintenance Toolbox comprises five different tools that will help Ryanair manage a wide variety of activities, including technical publications, structural repairs, maintenance and engineering.

Technical publications departments use the Maintenance Toolbox to create customized airline documents, modify original equipment manufacturer manuals, and create task cards. Built-in workflow tracking ensures that the document audit trail is complete and approved before release to users. The Maintenance Toolbox gives mechanics on the flight line, in the hangar, and at the maintenance operations center fast and efficient access to the information they need.

The new 3D Structural Repair Database tool helps engineers comply with upcoming requirements. Engineers can save successful solutions for reuse on recurrent tasks.

"We are pleased to be a developmental partner with Boeing on the Maintenance Toolbox," said Mick Hickey, Director of Engineering and Maintenance for Ryanair. "In order to remain the number one carrier of passengers in Europe, we strive to stay ahead of our competition by maintaining a modern fleet of 737-800s and supporting that fleet safely and reliably by utilizing leading-edge technology solutions such as the Maintenance Toolbox. The implementation of the Maintenance Toolbox will allow us to keep our operational costs low -- savings which we pass along to our passengers."

Boeing will provide secure hosting for all of Ryanair's data and reliable access to the user interface through MyBoeingFleet.com. Engineers need only a computer -- a laptop, desktop or pen tablet -- and an Internet connection to access the system.

"The Maintenance Toolbox is a shining example of how Boeing and Ryanair are continuing to work together to define the right products at the right time for Ryanair's operations," said Todd Nelp, vice president, Customer Support-Europe, Boeing Commercial Aviation Services. "As the first carrier in Europe to order the Maintenance Toolbox, Ryanair is again demonstrating its commitment to innovation and cost-efficient maintenance solutions."

The Maintenance Toolbox is a key element of Boeing's effort to e-Enable the air transport system. Boeing intends to offer content, applications, and services that connect all the data generated by an entire flight operation – in the air, on the ground and in the hangar -- meaningful to all users: pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, operations departments, airport users and other potential customers.

Boeing press release, SEATTLE, Oct. 19, 2005



In your face bashers !

And before everybody starts saying: "What do you know about safety in FR and blah blah"

I do work for them, not as a pilot but as cabin crew for almost 2 years now and I am Purser or no1 as we call it in FR. If been following various threads lately about FR and I just want to make 1 comment about THE point where everybody\'s talking about.

I have NEVER felt any pressure to go to work SICK or not able to fly. When I\'m sick I call sick. And all this crap about the management pressure is a serious overreaction. There is some pressure but absolutely not to the extent that I would go to work sick or any other of my colleages I might add. So people from outside the company, Cut the crap and take you\'re allegations somewhere else.

[Charlie Pop]

Wow, you've got a computer to tell you when you need maintenance done and that makes you safe. By that logic all we need to do is get every airline to buy the system and there'll never be another crash again.

The initial posting must win the award for most simplistic and naive posting today.

Now can you sell me a scratchcard please?

[sean1982]

Ok, I'm really starting to think that some people are not able to have a normal conversation

This system brings by to a better safety culture, by a better managing and planning of airplane maintenance and engineering. Did I say anything about avoiding crashes with this?

I justed wanted to prove with this that FR is not taking safety lightly or trying to save money on it. FR is actively trying to streamline it's procedures for a better safety culture.

As for the scratchcards, I'm just doing my job you know. very funny though HA HA HA

[Flame]

Hey Guys (and Gals)

Will y'all lighten up a bit, I cannot understand why it is, that at the mention of ryanair...almost every single thread degenerates into a pit of malicious slagging / hate / threats / and more that i cannot spell..!!!!

So much for Proffesionals..!!!!!!!!!

[kms901]

Sean 1982, don't take it personally. All PR has an element of untruth. This "new system" may help, but nothing replaces individual responsibility. And as someone who has flown as a passenger for thirty years, I just don't think Captains are the absolutely authority figures they once were. But I also think policemen are getting younger.

But I worry when the captain's pre-flight announcement includes
" The computer says our flight time is 1hr 52 mins"

[sean1982]

Not personal taken

I absolutely do not think that it takes responsibility away from individual persons, I'm just saying it helps to streamline to process which in turn translates to a better safety culture.

Working everyday on a plane I DO still have the authorithy feeling with a captain. I'm the cabin supervisor but at the end of the day, if something happens the captain is the one who makes the decision. And I've flown with older and younger captains and to me it does not make any diffenerce. I've never come on board an FR plane and felt unsafe. I have big confidence in the way safety is handled in FR.

Proof is the fact that a lot of airlines is willing to take FR cabin crew in because of their thorough knowledge of safety.

FS CHICK, so if what you say is true I should have been sacked 6 times already ?? strange

[His dudeness]

Sean,
IF this new system enhances safety, fine.
But mainly it will enhance their profits. Also fine wth me.
But, and thats what I think is wrong in FR´s (and many other airlines) thinking, is to put these systems into operation ONLY if they can safe money.

I personally don´t think FR is safer or less safe than most other airlines - but the rapid growth FR has inherets risks - this is not rocket science but common sense me thinks.

[Faire d'income]

"In your face bashers !

And before everybody starts saying: "What do you know about safety in FR and blah blah"

I do work for them, not as a pilot but as cabin crew for almost 2 years now and I am Purser or no1 as we call it in FR. If been following various threads lately about FR and I just want to make 1 comment about THE point where everybody\'s talking about.

I have NEVER felt any pressure to go to work SICK or not able to fly. When I\'m sick I call sick. And all this crap about the management pressure is a serious overreaction. There is some pressure but absolutely not to the extent that I would go to work sick or any other of my colleages I might add. So people from outside the company, Cut the crap and take you\'re allegations somewhere else."

Sean the Labour Court will decide about management pressure and intimidation so pardon me if I don't take your word for it. Bravo if you don't work while sick. In any other company it's not even an issue.

BTW I work with some of your former cabin colleagues and they can tell a tale or two.

[Sunfish]

I applaud Boeing's idea of providing a suite of software tools to streamline maintenance.

Lets hope the interfaces are standardised so that when Airbus does something similar airlines with mixed fleets don't have to run two systems.

Lets also hope that the announcement is not just smoke and mirrors and that there is some real production software already available to do the job, not just the "demonstration" system. I hope Ryanair is not pioneering this system for its staff's sake.

Lets also hope that the installation and especially the migration of Ryanair's data goes smoothly.

Lets also hope its running on Unix or preferably Linux, not Microsoft product.

Now for the cynical bit. I'll bet the great leader sees this as an opportunity to decimate his maintenance planning function, or an excuse not to increase capacity in that area. I also wonder if Ryanair is going to buy laptops for its engineers, or make them buy their own and charge them at home every night so as not to use the company's electricity.

Just remember that to err is human, but to really stuff things up you need a computer.

[jollyikarus]

Sean,
Come on now....
Software (or computer programs) are nothing but a tool! It is how you use the tool is what makes the difference. The best tools in (at) the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it - or is prevented from using it to its full extent - is pretty useless!
Give a Stradivari to a moron....and all you'll hear is....urghhh!
By which I am not saying that all at FR are morons!!!!

Glad te read that you are proud of working for your employer and that you DO indentify yourself with the job you do. And that wasn't meant to be cynical!

Cheers!

Cheers! ;-)

[BEagle]

sean, the Press Release you posted came from the manufacturer. Politely it is typical PR flannel.

But if it helps with maintenance, then fine. But history has shown that computers suffer from 'garbage in, garbage out'. So it's vital that whoever uses this system is thoroughly trained to do so.

As an example of how a good idea can go sadly wrong, these are some interim comments following the fatal Boeing 747 accident at Halifax:

But further investigation has turned up problems beyond the throttle setting; specifically, the crew's training on new cockpit software, said Bill Fowler, the board's lead investigator.

The software known as the Boeing Laptop Tool, or BLT, calculates the proper speed and thrust of the plane based on information the crew inputs on weight, runway length and weather conditions.

Mr. Fowler said the software was set for the plane's weight at its previous takeoff in Hartford, Conn., almost 110,000 kilograms lighter than the Halifax load.

After interviewing airline staff, the board concluded the software training process was incomplete.

"The company undertook to implement this [software] package following guidance material," Mr. Fowler said. "The question arose: Did they do it adequately? In our view, not all of it."
Mr. Fowler said the software could allow crew who were unfamiliar with the program to use the previous takeoff's weight data.

Incidentally, the worst airline landings I've ever experienced were with a premium carrier, not a lo-co. For example, slammed into the runway at Frankfurt (the real one ) in an A321 with 5 kts down the RW, excellent visibility, no turbulence and ISA+5......

[sean1982]

I'm not based in STN, but I've been flying from there and I personally didn't have any problems.

Most of the management pressure comes sales and believe it or not safety on board. In recent weeks tons of memo's have come out to remind cabin crew about the importance of pre-flight checks, security measures and reporting incidents. We hav 3 different reporting systems in FR for reporting incidents. About the sales pressure, I think it's normal if you are in a selling enviroment the selling as much as possible is important? I have friends working for different clothing shops and they have also quota's and pressure for selling from the management.

About the Skavsta thing. This was 1 pilot. Why now assuming everybody who flies in FR is crap. So in your opinion, If one of my colleagues is pissed of with company and blows a slide on purpose, the next day everybody's going to blow their slides on purpose? Come on grow up. And if I would be in a situation where reporting somebody is required because he showed a serious lack of judgement or ignored almost every SOP in the company I would without any doubt report him and that is the way how it is encouraged by the company as well!

[RogerIrrelevant69]

Well my tuupence worth is, sean1982 shouldn't be so naive as to go re-posting another bit of FR "news" from their website and not expect a bit of a light grilling here in pprune land.

Yes it is good to see FR is bang up to date on the latest Boeing procedures but I'm sure they are not alone. I don't think FR would ever cut costs in this area. Too much to lose. I think the only saving they make in maintenance is having the newest shiniest fleet I've ever seen. God knows how they afford it but they do. Their safety record is not in question. In aviation statistics mean a great deal and their statistics on safety beat the socks off most.

If some chump makes what should have been a career changing approach in Sweden, how can this possibly lead to any logical conclusion that FR is unsafe? It cannot.

I am not an FR basher when it comes to their safety record or their seat prices. Consequently I fly with them whenever I can as they save me lots of money. But, and this is the big but, I detest the spin/bull****/outright lies that certain FR types (not you sean1982) like to put out on pprune (No1 culprit - oh LHC I think). That stuff deservedly get bashed, roasted and pummelled every time it appears.

[PAXboy]

bacardi walla

Companies can spend millions on technology and tools. It's the person using it who is ultimately responsible because if they are not trained sufficiently, the tool won't perform and he/she will be blamed for not using it correctly.

Indeed. Having been involved in introducing new electronic and computer systems for 25 years, I can say that most companies by new systems to save money. My view is that you should buy a system because it improves an existing process. With personal responsibility - you'd better believe it. We have just seen in the UK that, following the Hatfield rail smash, no company and no person is being prosecuted. Corporate fines but no person was guilty. That is how it works.

As to the comments hoping that FR are not launch customers for this software, they appear to be just that. If you read the Press Release that started this thread:

"We are pleased to be a developmental partner with Boeing on the Maintenance Toolbox," said Mick Hickey, Director of Engineering and Maintenance for Ryanair.

Being a development partner usually means getting the software for a serious discount. Of course, I sit to be corrected on this.

It's the same when airlines are launch customers for a new a/c. You gain some advantages by being ahead of the competition but it costs you a LOT of mgmt and staff time (and expenses) to gain that edge. Not for nothing is it called, The Bleeding Edge of Technology .

In case Sean is concerned, the above is not attacking FR, I believe that I am just clarifying existing statements.

[Grunf]

Hello everybody. How about we wait for Airbus to implement something similar and then start commenting?

Aside for FR they're next to Southwest one of the biggest (if not the second biggest) 737 customer by the number…so Boeing chose them based on that info I guess…and a discount of course, for the raw data and consequent new releases for the software…

Let's just hope this tool will help them and not replace engineers…I guess no software is meant to replace human brains…

I also bet that FRs media/marketing people are quite satisfied for us doing their job…

From that point of view…how many people on this thread might be from FR marketing or an agency working for them?

Who saw "Stalag 17" or "Wag the dog" would understand what I mean…

Cheers

[PAXboy]

Let's just hope this tool will help them and not replace engineers…

Software is always meant to help even if it does not always do so. My guess is that this sounds like an administration tool, more than an engineering one. It might be about ensuring that equipment does not get serviced earlier than is required and so get better value, as well as tracking of work.

I guess no software is meant to replace human brains…

You gotta be joking, right? One of the key selling points of software is that it replaces brains. Brains are expensive and muscles are expensive, so if you can replaces muscles with robots and brains with software, you can manage and control the expense better and that means you can make more profit.

[beernice]

Never had a problem with the engineering side of things at FR. The engineering department seems to be the only department that gets what it wants. I think the company knows that if we do have an accident and it can be put down to poor maintaince it might well be curtains. I might be critical of FR on many fronts but not maintaince.
As for CRM we have many young casin crew from all over Europe. Its got its advantages and disadvantages. I do know that the IAA will be introducing a day long Crm course with pilots and crew in together for the first time. There are many things to bash ryanair on but not this, bringing in this new system must be good.

[EI-CFC]

The engineering department seems to be the only department that gets what it wants. I think the company knows that if we do have an accident and it can be put down to poor maintaince it might well be curtains.

Indeed, whatever might be said about FR, much of it absolute cobblers, some of it true, the maintenence side of the operation has always struck me as pretty top-class.

MOL may be many things, but he is no fool. I don't think they would even skimp on maintenence.

[Aloue]

First a quote from the post by Sean that started this thread:

I have NEVER felt any pressure to go to work SICK or not able to fly. When I\'m sick I call sick. And all this crap about the management pressure is a serious overreaction. There is some pressure ….

O.K. Sean, here’s the problem: You state your experience as if it were sufficient to refute those who claim the contrary. However, your personal experience does not mean that those who make different claims are wrong. It means only that you are correct about your experience and, probably, about the situation in your base. (In fact it is clear that in some bases things run along in a pretty harmonious way, depending upon local management, the roster/schedule, etc, etc.).

But …. may I also remind you of the following Ryanair memo:

Over the past year over 10,000 days have been lost through absenteeism in RYANAIR, which equates to 7 un-crewed aircraft every day, all year around!!!

Your attendance record shows that you have been absent from work on X occasions during the last 12 months.

This high frequency of absence cannot be sustained, as other people within your area have to pick up additional work in your absence.

All absences in the future will be closely monitored and, I need to see a dramatic and sustained improvement in your attendance in the months ahead.

Please confirm receipt of this letter and measures you will take to eliminate further absence from work. If you have any queries on the above please do not hesitate to contact me.

(Signed by David O'Brien).

I don’t know how you interpret this memo Sean, but there are flight crew in Ryanair who interpret this as a clear warning that they should be very careful about their level of sickness. In fact there are those who have been invited by Ryanair management to outline “the measures [they] will take to eliminate further absence” and who have left the interview believing that it would be wiser to go to work than to go sick. (BTW, a typical number of days sick to receive this memo is three days or more).

I accept your entitlement to express your opinion and I accept fully that what you say applies to yourself. However, I have absolutely no doubt that cabin crew work in Ryanair when they should not do so. I know this because I have met such cabin crew. What they fear more that working when sick are the consequences of being labelled as “trouble-makers” (and because of their belief that this would threaten their continued employment).

And no, they do not make reports about this (which they should). Which brings us back to where this all started.

[Sunfish]

Unless your sick days are portable between employers (which I doubt), then this is a simple cost issue, and naturally Ryanair wants to minimise this expense.