BA to use Carmen rostering fleetwide???
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BA to use Carmen rostering fleetwide!
Mole says BA have already signed a preliminary deal with the Swedish computer services company to replace BA's "bidline system" of rostering, where pilot seniority has an input into destinations and work levels, with a blanket, company-rostered 900 hours per pilot per year.
Carmen website openly boasting of massive productivity gains by airlines that have initiated it. By implication, anyone not using it is likely to be at an industry-killing disadvantage.
Tough luck on BA's longhaul commuters who fly-in for work periods. Once a company-produced roster is in place all will have to live near LHR for the flexibility the system proclaims to work. Tough luck on anyone wanting a life outside BA - the system in use at LGW for crews there just ignores any preferences until all work covered. Should be fun in longhaul as any social commitment is all but unworkable in advance. More pilot divorce to come.
"Mood music" AKA the 'change process' has already started at BA with much clever abuse of existing bidline process by mgmnt designed to force Carmen onto the agenda.
Anyone from KLM or Wideroe care to comment, the Carmen website says your productivity has soared. Got any kind of life left?
Me, I'm just a robot - I dont need a life.
Carmen website openly boasting of massive productivity gains by airlines that have initiated it. By implication, anyone not using it is likely to be at an industry-killing disadvantage.
Tough luck on BA's longhaul commuters who fly-in for work periods. Once a company-produced roster is in place all will have to live near LHR for the flexibility the system proclaims to work. Tough luck on anyone wanting a life outside BA - the system in use at LGW for crews there just ignores any preferences until all work covered. Should be fun in longhaul as any social commitment is all but unworkable in advance. More pilot divorce to come.
"Mood music" AKA the 'change process' has already started at BA with much clever abuse of existing bidline process by mgmnt designed to force Carmen onto the agenda.
Anyone from KLM or Wideroe care to comment, the Carmen website says your productivity has soared. Got any kind of life left?
Me, I'm just a robot - I dont need a life.
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If Carmen is introduced on longhaul then they'd have to change the MBT days ie. 4 days off after a SIN or NRT, 3 off after a SEA, etc... - in which case I can't see how they could cover all the work! We'd probably end up with more days off, especially on the 777.
While you're on here Lloyd, how about 3 day SFOs/LAXs with 8 days off after (1 day per time zone change)? Sorry, I forgot that you want to have your cake and it eat too.
While you're on here Lloyd, how about 3 day SFOs/LAXs with 8 days off after (1 day per time zone change)? Sorry, I forgot that you want to have your cake and it eat too.
with a blanket, company-rostered 900 hours per pilot per year.
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If the rumours about the company imposing EG300 on the cabin crew are true, then why not Carmen on the pilots? They are both going to be met with equal ferrocity if you ask me.
So what if they can't squeeze any more hours out of us. An unhappy workforce is an efficient workforce! Well that seems to be BA management's philosophy anyway.
So what if they can't squeeze any more hours out of us. An unhappy workforce is an efficient workforce! Well that seems to be BA management's philosophy anyway.
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Shortfinalfred
Are you cabin crew? Seems that all you do is spread misinformation or complete lies about BA. Quite frankly most of the stuff you write is the very reason that so few real pilots bother to read Pprune any more.
At the moment most of the LH guys are constantly nudging the 900hr limit. There can be no possible increase in their output. That's the law.
Bid Line Rules are the contract of employment. They cannot simply be changed at the whim of the company.
I was talking to Paul Douglas last week and he confirms again and again that BA have no plans to replace BLR. Not sure how how he can put it any other way.
Pprune used to be a great place for pilots to swap gossip and talk shop. It was also THE place for those wanting to join the profession to get a feel for what to expect. Now all it is is a place for the bitter and twisted to vent their spleen against organisations that they are clearly not a part. I have issues with BA but they are mainly fairly small in the global over view. Here are the FACTS for those who sometimes think it is all doom and gloom.
1. Starting pay is better than it has ever been in all my 30 years in the company. Variable pay is shared equally. Unthinkable 5 years ago when the variation could be several thousand pounds a month in variable pay alone between top and bottom.
2. The pension is not as good. But that is just the way it is for pensions. That is a factor of the society we live in not BA. on the plus side you will be able to work past 55 if you so wish. Something for which many of my past colleagues would have killed.
3. BLR are the same as they always have been for the last decade and more. In fact when they were first introduced the junior pilots just did reserve. Thats all they did for year after year. The system now is 100% better. You will be able to plan your life after you get your roster and once you are 50 from the bottom you will into the nirvana of trip lines.
4. Command time will be 12 years SH and 15 years LH. That is about right and the average in my time in the airline. 10 years ago SH commands were a 20plus years. Bitter young men have short memories.
5. Flying aeroplanes is good fun. The guys you fly with are bright, quick witted and if your flightdeck hasn't got the sound of laughter in it then you are doing something wrong.
Are you cabin crew? Seems that all you do is spread misinformation or complete lies about BA. Quite frankly most of the stuff you write is the very reason that so few real pilots bother to read Pprune any more.
At the moment most of the LH guys are constantly nudging the 900hr limit. There can be no possible increase in their output. That's the law.
Bid Line Rules are the contract of employment. They cannot simply be changed at the whim of the company.
I was talking to Paul Douglas last week and he confirms again and again that BA have no plans to replace BLR. Not sure how how he can put it any other way.
Pprune used to be a great place for pilots to swap gossip and talk shop. It was also THE place for those wanting to join the profession to get a feel for what to expect. Now all it is is a place for the bitter and twisted to vent their spleen against organisations that they are clearly not a part. I have issues with BA but they are mainly fairly small in the global over view. Here are the FACTS for those who sometimes think it is all doom and gloom.
1. Starting pay is better than it has ever been in all my 30 years in the company. Variable pay is shared equally. Unthinkable 5 years ago when the variation could be several thousand pounds a month in variable pay alone between top and bottom.
2. The pension is not as good. But that is just the way it is for pensions. That is a factor of the society we live in not BA. on the plus side you will be able to work past 55 if you so wish. Something for which many of my past colleagues would have killed.
3. BLR are the same as they always have been for the last decade and more. In fact when they were first introduced the junior pilots just did reserve. Thats all they did for year after year. The system now is 100% better. You will be able to plan your life after you get your roster and once you are 50 from the bottom you will into the nirvana of trip lines.
4. Command time will be 12 years SH and 15 years LH. That is about right and the average in my time in the airline. 10 years ago SH commands were a 20plus years. Bitter young men have short memories.
5. Flying aeroplanes is good fun. The guys you fly with are bright, quick witted and if your flightdeck hasn't got the sound of laughter in it then you are doing something wrong.
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Carmen is probably a good system, but, like any computer system, it all depends on how you program it.
KLM 737 fleet have been using carmen for 10 years now, and the company is happy with it. Pilots are divided. (I hate it!!!)
They now tried to implement it on the 747 fleet, and "forgot" to add the labour agreement. It instantly cost the company in the range of 2000!!! extra off days to pilots before turning the system off again.
So make sure you are there when they program the system, and you shoudl be okay I guess.
Spuis
KLM 737 fleet have been using carmen for 10 years now, and the company is happy with it. Pilots are divided. (I hate it!!!)
They now tried to implement it on the 747 fleet, and "forgot" to add the labour agreement. It instantly cost the company in the range of 2000!!! extra off days to pilots before turning the system off again.
So make sure you are there when they program the system, and you shoudl be okay I guess.
Spuis
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It all gets so tiresome in here some times!
Pilot: "Im sorry darling, we simply must divorce, BA are bringing in Carmen"
Pilots missus: "Carmen! the slut"
Jouer le Jeux as the french say
Pilot: "Im sorry darling, we simply must divorce, BA are bringing in Carmen"
Pilots missus: "Carmen! the slut"
Jouer le Jeux as the french say
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Shortfinalfred,
Are you sure you have your facts correct??? I have just transferred from LGW where carmen worked a hell of a lot better there than it does here in LHR WW! And as for commuters, it does not make a blind bit of difference. Plenty of other airlines use carmen to great effect including virgin. However, BA simply do not seem to have the full package in operation!
Are you sure you have your facts correct??? I have just transferred from LGW where carmen worked a hell of a lot better there than it does here in LHR WW! And as for commuters, it does not make a blind bit of difference. Plenty of other airlines use carmen to great effect including virgin. However, BA simply do not seem to have the full package in operation!
You've all got it wrong.
The thinking behind rolling out Carmen fleetwide is to "continue the British Airways philosophy of giving greater lifestyle choice to staff whilst maintaining an efficient and robust operation."
That's what it says here, at least........
GM, Ops Planning
The thinking behind rolling out Carmen fleetwide is to "continue the British Airways philosophy of giving greater lifestyle choice to staff whilst maintaining an efficient and robust operation."
That's what it says here, at least........
GM, Ops Planning
Last edited by RevMan2; 5th Oct 2005 at 18:45.
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Why is it when ever they change something in BA , you guys are all up in arms about it?? Big deal things change in life and you just get used to it. Bunch of unionised wimps i say.
Nowadays it is normal practice in BA, unfortunately. Employees fear the news of changes, as they are taking more and more things away.
However, I don't know about pilots' rosters, but we CC at LGW have Carmen and once you learn how to use it it's great.
I started off by swearing at the woman every month, then started bidding in a smarter way about 10 months ago and have had 10 months of great rosters, giving me my preferred duties and a bit of a "routine".
I know that for LH rules are different, but I believe that the secret is to learn how to deal with the woman. After that, you're sorted. (same as with the missus!)
Come on Nigels, Cheer up!!!!!!!!!
FBW
