ATR down near Palermo (Merged)
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One woman said she had a sense of foreboding while the aircraft was still on the ground because the pilot had trouble starting one of the engines. One of the propellers was also stuck and was moving slowly but then got going properly.
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Good Grief Konkordski, I was comparing the media coverage of the ATR to the 340 excursion in Toronto.
No I dont think coverage that was given to the 340 was appropriate,the excursion was really not bad.
Fast forward to the ATR, this was truly someting worth noting and here in the U.S it received about 2 minutes of coverage and not that much either in Italy on RAI
No I dont think coverage that was given to the 340 was appropriate,the excursion was really not bad.
Fast forward to the ATR, this was truly someting worth noting and here in the U.S it received about 2 minutes of coverage and not that much either in Italy on RAI
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Trentino
- I appreciate your point, and agree that, if you're talking about the A340 coverage, there was a huge imbalance.
But that's for a number of reasons:
- the Toronto incident involved a bigger aircraft, more passengers, and plenty of live pictures, so reader interest was greater.
- the investigators in Canada were sharp off the mark in providing regular updates, aided by the fact that the CVR/FDR recovery was swift. Canada's safety board has also taken the trouble to organise press briefings - have you seen a single Italian one yet?
- the A340 accident involved Air France, a much more high-profile carrier than Tuninter. Incidents with bigger companies are more likely to affect your audience.
- there's very little to report from the ATR incident. It's a slow-moving investigation because half the aeroplane is still underwater (along with the recorders).
- I appreciate your point, and agree that, if you're talking about the A340 coverage, there was a huge imbalance.
But that's for a number of reasons:
- the Toronto incident involved a bigger aircraft, more passengers, and plenty of live pictures, so reader interest was greater.
- the investigators in Canada were sharp off the mark in providing regular updates, aided by the fact that the CVR/FDR recovery was swift. Canada's safety board has also taken the trouble to organise press briefings - have you seen a single Italian one yet?
- the A340 accident involved Air France, a much more high-profile carrier than Tuninter. Incidents with bigger companies are more likely to affect your audience.
- there's very little to report from the ATR incident. It's a slow-moving investigation because half the aeroplane is still underwater (along with the recorders).
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Good day / evening / night to all,
Congratulations to you all on your fantastic forum, full of information and variety!
In theme with the present conversation, besides greeting you all real life masters of the air, I wanted to report that it looks like the case temporarily regressed to "finger pointing at the pilot's error(s)";
in fact, according to Italian news sites, the pilot, despite his argumented defence, officially received an "avviso di garanzia" (my apologies, I do not know about legal terminology in English) in which he's being requested to appear in front of the It. justice with the charge of potential manslaughter.
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/h/sezi.../copilota.html
Congratulations to you all on your fantastic forum, full of information and variety!
In theme with the present conversation, besides greeting you all real life masters of the air, I wanted to report that it looks like the case temporarily regressed to "finger pointing at the pilot's error(s)";
in fact, according to Italian news sites, the pilot, despite his argumented defence, officially received an "avviso di garanzia" (my apologies, I do not know about legal terminology in English) in which he's being requested to appear in front of the It. justice with the charge of potential manslaughter.
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/h/sezi.../copilota.html
Pegase Driver
Danm It ! you are right ! It was the pilot all along !
Why bother spending over a million euros trying to recover the CVR/FDR, send the buggar in jail and we can close the case .
Why bother spending over a million euros trying to recover the CVR/FDR, send the buggar in jail and we can close the case .
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According to RaiNews website, co-pilot states that as far as he can remember, all emergency procedures following the first engine failure were carried out correctly.
The fuel analysis from the bowser in Bari did not yield abnormal results and the bowser has been released to service again. A check of the fuel filters from the recovered wreckage did not yield any impurities.
Co-pilot mentions that following the first engine failure they requsted asisted from the "on-board mechanic"..? Do Tuninter have a flight-engineer/ground mechanic on every flight?
The fuel analysis from the bowser in Bari did not yield abnormal results and the bowser has been released to service again. A check of the fuel filters from the recovered wreckage did not yield any impurities.
Co-pilot mentions that following the first engine failure they requsted asisted from the "on-board mechanic"..? Do Tuninter have a flight-engineer/ground mechanic on every flight?
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HOW DID THE ENGINES STOP??
I can't understand why there is so few information from the interviews, I mean when I try to read the Italian article I can't see any indication about a pilot's statement if
- the engines just stopped by itself (very strange)
- the engines were shutdown by the pilots due to what failure/warning indication
If the fuel filters were checked any other major damage on the engines would be evident by now, wouldn't it?
Very odd to me.
Just my 2 €c.
- the engines just stopped by itself (very strange)
- the engines were shutdown by the pilots due to what failure/warning indication
If the fuel filters were checked any other major damage on the engines would be evident by now, wouldn't it?
Very odd to me.
Just my 2 €c.
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His dudeness,
"to do with leaning out" ???
Nothing to do with the original thread but Whyalla Airlines WAS a low capacity RPT operation which had a crash in a Chieftain (PA31) some time in the late 90ies, it had a double engine failure on a RPT run from Adelaide to Whyalla (South Australia). The pilot did a text book ditching at night but unfortunately everybody on board died from drowning.
The ATSB investigation found that the double engine failure occured due to to extensive leaning of engines (the pilots were under pressure from management to save fuel) and a bad batch of engines from the manufacture...the company got shut down by the authorities.
EP
"to do with leaning out" ???
Nothing to do with the original thread but Whyalla Airlines WAS a low capacity RPT operation which had a crash in a Chieftain (PA31) some time in the late 90ies, it had a double engine failure on a RPT run from Adelaide to Whyalla (South Australia). The pilot did a text book ditching at night but unfortunately everybody on board died from drowning.
The ATSB investigation found that the double engine failure occured due to to extensive leaning of engines (the pilots were under pressure from management to save fuel) and a bad batch of engines from the manufacture...the company got shut down by the authorities.
EP
threemiles
as in most criminal investigations the authorities don't release their day to day inquisitions to the public. Don't expect to hear anything for a year or so.
Do expect to hear from the investigators whatever they find out not associated with a blame factor.
I can't understand why there is so few information from the interviews, I mean when I try to read the Italian article I can't see any indication about a pilot's statement if
Do expect to hear from the investigators whatever they find out not associated with a blame factor.
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Not enough fuel or not enough at the good engine?
Starting to suspect that the mechanic they called forward after the first engine failure may have screwed up the crossfeed for them, cutting off fuel to the good engine. Shades of the 13 Aug 04 Air Tahoma Flt 185 crash (a CV580 without any engine failures at all)
The mech wasn't strapped in and was killed in transiting the windscreen during the ditching (at least I believe I read that somewhere).
If that was the case it might be difficult for the investigators to reach that conclusion. Definitive DFDR data and physical evidence might not be available.
The mech wasn't strapped in and was killed in transiting the windscreen during the ditching (at least I believe I read that somewhere).
If that was the case it might be difficult for the investigators to reach that conclusion. Definitive DFDR data and physical evidence might not be available.
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The following report just issued about a forced engine shut-down on an ATR due to zero fuel may be of relevance to this accident. It shows what can happen with a busy crew and schedule delays.
http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?...g=ENG&loc=1652
http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?...g=ENG&loc=1652
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hi guys
I agree on the engine being fed by gravity but don t forget if you switch the fuel pumps off you also close the motive flow valve so neither the electrical nor the jet pump will work on that side .
with no LP pump working you put lot of strengh on the HP pump i believe so.
I agree on the engine being fed by gravity but don t forget if you switch the fuel pumps off you also close the motive flow valve so neither the electrical nor the jet pump will work on that side .
with no LP pump working you put lot of strengh on the HP pump i believe so.