possible security incident at Girona??
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possible security incident at Girona??
Can anyone confirm (or deny) rumours of a supposed security breach at girona airport last week?
Usual rumour beginning - 'friend of a friend, etc.' - flying girona to stansted with ryanair, reported the aircraft was evacuated and two passengers arrested.
Seemingly after overhearing a conversation between the two, a concerned passenger who believed they had parachutes on board and worried that they had chosen seats at opposite ends of the aircraft, alerted the Captain who took immediate action.
Usual rumour beginning - 'friend of a friend, etc.' - flying girona to stansted with ryanair, reported the aircraft was evacuated and two passengers arrested.
Seemingly after overhearing a conversation between the two, a concerned passenger who believed they had parachutes on board and worried that they had chosen seats at opposite ends of the aircraft, alerted the Captain who took immediate action.
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one of the paxs with the parachutes sat beside one of the paxs and told them that him and his friend were the only people who were safe because they had parachutes. capt was told , called police , offloaded them and had the aircraft searched
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Wow...
Nearby Girona harbours one of the biggest parachuting communities in europe. FR flights there are full of parachutists on thrill seeking holidays every day. Most of them bring their chutes on board with them and it's not a problem. All of the GRO based guys would know that. It must have been a non GRO based skipper.
However, I don't know what happened on the day and I do respect that if a capt had a doubt he/she must react....so good on ya for reacting.
I wonder what would happen if you jumped out of a 737 at 30000ft and deployed a parachute......i don't think you would be as safe as those guys believed !!! Thats if you could get the door open!!
Nearby Girona harbours one of the biggest parachuting communities in europe. FR flights there are full of parachutists on thrill seeking holidays every day. Most of them bring their chutes on board with them and it's not a problem. All of the GRO based guys would know that. It must have been a non GRO based skipper.
However, I don't know what happened on the day and I do respect that if a capt had a doubt he/she must react....so good on ya for reacting.
I wonder what would happen if you jumped out of a 737 at 30000ft and deployed a parachute......i don't think you would be as safe as those guys believed !!! Thats if you could get the door open!!
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Those of us who should have retired by now well remember the hijacker in the States who boarded a 727 with a parachute and then demanded loads of money not to blow the a/c up. They landed, got the money, he lowered the rear stairs on departure, closed the pressure door and was never seen again, presumbaly getting away with it, though there were rumours that some of the wrappings from the money were found downstream in a river under the a/c track.
I believe they set up some kind of diner or cafe named after him somewhere under the track the a/c followed - a bit of hero-worship. Subsequent copycats that demanded parachutes and money were supplied with non-working chutes, rumour has it...
For years afterwards we were told that parachutes in the cabin were a complete no-no. Dunno, but I'd have thought that if cabin pressure = outside, then you could take out an overwing plug and get away. You don't have to up to FL300, FL50 would do just nicely, thank you. Also dunno about hitting the tail on the way out, either.
Cheers,
The Odd One
I believe they set up some kind of diner or cafe named after him somewhere under the track the a/c followed - a bit of hero-worship. Subsequent copycats that demanded parachutes and money were supplied with non-working chutes, rumour has it...
For years afterwards we were told that parachutes in the cabin were a complete no-no. Dunno, but I'd have thought that if cabin pressure = outside, then you could take out an overwing plug and get away. You don't have to up to FL300, FL50 would do just nicely, thank you. Also dunno about hitting the tail on the way out, either.
Cheers,
The Odd One
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Hey Oddone I remember Your thinking of D.B. Cooper
Interesting Program on National Geographic referred to this as the "Worlds only unsolved Hyjacking"
D.B. Cooper Flight 305 North West Orient from Seattle to Mexico November 24th 1971
Was an interesting TV Documentary on National Geographic about this guy where a group of people re-enacted what was assumed to have occured even the jump at night and also having the rigg etc dropped into a pool from above along with a sack of "money" just to see how long you could stay afloat.
Made interesting viewing some more back ground info here http://www.answers.com/topic/d-b-cooper
Interesting Program on National Geographic referred to this as the "Worlds only unsolved Hyjacking"
D.B. Cooper Flight 305 North West Orient from Seattle to Mexico November 24th 1971
Was an interesting TV Documentary on National Geographic about this guy where a group of people re-enacted what was assumed to have occured even the jump at night and also having the rigg etc dropped into a pool from above along with a sack of "money" just to see how long you could stay afloat.
Made interesting viewing some more back ground info here http://www.answers.com/topic/d-b-cooper
Unfortunately hysteria has reached hysterical levels (sic)
One Captain I fly with seems completely paranoid of anybody with a middle-eastern appearance. Hard to believe - but true.
Thats life now... welcome to the new world.
One Captain I fly with seems completely paranoid of anybody with a middle-eastern appearance. Hard to believe - but true.
Thats life now... welcome to the new world.
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uplock,
Thanks for the detail. Guess I missed that one on National Geographic - too many night shifts, no cable at work!
I-FORD
I'm sorry but you appear to have missed the point of a couple of posts just above yours.
Since a hijacking has already happened using a parachute, it seems reasonable to ban them from the cabin, just as we've done with guns, knives, hand grenades etc.
Security is always playing catch-up, but do give them some credit for at least trying to prevent a recurrence of an existing scenario.
This ain't paranoia, just common sense, in my view...
Cheers,
The Odd One
Thanks for the detail. Guess I missed that one on National Geographic - too many night shifts, no cable at work!
I can't see any security breach in taking parachutes on board.
I'm sorry but you appear to have missed the point of a couple of posts just above yours.
Since a hijacking has already happened using a parachute, it seems reasonable to ban them from the cabin, just as we've done with guns, knives, hand grenades etc.
Security is always playing catch-up, but do give them some credit for at least trying to prevent a recurrence of an existing scenario.
This ain't paranoia, just common sense, in my view...
Cheers,
The Odd One
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Bomber Harris
Jumping from 30'000 feet is not unknown, infect its something the militaries are regularly practicing. Called "HALO" or "HAHO" these forces include Army Green Berets, Navy SEALs and Marine Corps Force Recon, KSK, SAS etc.
"HALO" for High Altitude Low Opening (exit at 30'000 feet and chute opening at or below 1000 feet), the military term for skydiving, is freefalling in "tactical grouping" (sport skydivers call this no-contact RW). There is also "HAHO" for High Altitude High Opening where the jumpers open at a high altitude like 25,000 feet, and glide long distances to the landing area (sport skydivers call this cross country).
Military skydiving rigs are known as HAPPS (High Altitude Precision Parachute System) or "stealth parachutes" because they cannot easily be seen from the ground. These rigs are very similar to sport skydiving rigs. All the handles are in the same place but there are a number of attachment points for additional equipment and a harness for the O2 equipment. The typical canopy size is 360 sq ft on both the main and reserve.
Jumping from 30'000 feet is not unknown, infect its something the militaries are regularly practicing. Called "HALO" or "HAHO" these forces include Army Green Berets, Navy SEALs and Marine Corps Force Recon, KSK, SAS etc.
"HALO" for High Altitude Low Opening (exit at 30'000 feet and chute opening at or below 1000 feet), the military term for skydiving, is freefalling in "tactical grouping" (sport skydivers call this no-contact RW). There is also "HAHO" for High Altitude High Opening where the jumpers open at a high altitude like 25,000 feet, and glide long distances to the landing area (sport skydivers call this cross country).
Military skydiving rigs are known as HAPPS (High Altitude Precision Parachute System) or "stealth parachutes" because they cannot easily be seen from the ground. These rigs are very similar to sport skydiving rigs. All the handles are in the same place but there are a number of attachment points for additional equipment and a harness for the O2 equipment. The typical canopy size is 360 sq ft on both the main and reserve.
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The problem isn't the parachute, the problem is the comment made to the passenger which could have been (and was) misinterpreted as a potential threat.
Saying you're the only one who's safe on board, because you have a parachute, is understandably a light-hearted remark that anyone might make - but if you choose the wrong person to say it to, they could easily take it to mean something more sinister.
Sad but true. Kudos to the captain, sure, but equally to the passenger who wasn't afraid to act on his concerns - even if they were unfounded.
Saying you're the only one who's safe on board, because you have a parachute, is understandably a light-hearted remark that anyone might make - but if you choose the wrong person to say it to, they could easily take it to mean something more sinister.
Sad but true. Kudos to the captain, sure, but equally to the passenger who wasn't afraid to act on his concerns - even if they were unfounded.
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And parachutists should be aware of the attitude people have to parachutes in the cabin; the guy should have been more mature and kept his mouth shut. Airlines will not want the extra cost of unloading pax who shoot their mouths off and hence parachutes are more likely to end up on the banned articles list.
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I cant beleve you lot are even justifying this ridiculous over reaction. What sort of captain doesnt realise you cant skydive from a 737.Try opening the doors and even thru the over wing youve got a 99percent chance of dying. What sort of moron even lets it get past the stage of qualifying the guys remarks. Utter Utter nonsense.
As for you spotters praising his actions or justifying his desicions with self serving logic, well you just sum up the state this board has got into. Halo. haho require the jumper to board the aircraft looking like a stormtrooper.
It would be a different story if the pax that reported this applied their same tabloid ignorance to the crews flying skills wouldnt it. ie " oo the captain pulled up rapidly on take off and tried to kill us"Then it would be a case of " what do they know etc etc". Platitudes all round for the crew and slagging for the pax. Well its the same ignorant type of pax, you do the math.
I dont know what angers me more the over reaction of the imbelcile in the flight deck or the sanctimonious support for his actions.This airprot serves a drop zone, a big drop zone and ryr is full of skydivers, some of which obviously have more common sense and command time that this probable 3000 ryr wunderkind.
morons
As for you spotters praising his actions or justifying his desicions with self serving logic, well you just sum up the state this board has got into. Halo. haho require the jumper to board the aircraft looking like a stormtrooper.
It would be a different story if the pax that reported this applied their same tabloid ignorance to the crews flying skills wouldnt it. ie " oo the captain pulled up rapidly on take off and tried to kill us"Then it would be a case of " what do they know etc etc". Platitudes all round for the crew and slagging for the pax. Well its the same ignorant type of pax, you do the math.
I dont know what angers me more the over reaction of the imbelcile in the flight deck or the sanctimonious support for his actions.This airprot serves a drop zone, a big drop zone and ryr is full of skydivers, some of which obviously have more common sense and command time that this probable 3000 ryr wunderkind.
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What sort of captain doesnt realise you cant skydive from a 737.
With respect, whether you can parachute from a 737 or not is irrelevant.
Look at this way - supposed you have a loony on board who's planning something unpleasant but believes he can parachute out and escape to safety. Just because he's wrong doesn't eliminate the initial threat.
How do you tell the difference between an innocent parachutist making a careless comment and something potentially more serious?
Again, the problem is one of perception. It's the same situation as the guy who jokes about the bomb in his suitcase at security - even if it's obvious he doesn't pose a threat, do you just let it go?
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dicksynormous
Even though HALO and HAHO guys jump out of something like a KC130s open rear end, you'll find a rather good position on any aircrafts rear door even if that would not be a prime choice. And your quite right that HALO and HAHO equipment makes a person look like a storm trooper too.
In this case I further agree that the entire situation has been blown out of proportion. But notwithstanding the fact that GRO is a jumpers paradise, or rather just because of it, you could have had some numb nut trying to make a name for himself in the jumpers community by attempting a stunt just like that.
The proper reaction of the crew should have been to gate-check this guys chute, tell him of for making dumb comments and proceed as normal.
No need to praise the crew nor condemn them of their actions or any contributor on this thread.
Even though HALO and HAHO guys jump out of something like a KC130s open rear end, you'll find a rather good position on any aircrafts rear door even if that would not be a prime choice. And your quite right that HALO and HAHO equipment makes a person look like a storm trooper too.
In this case I further agree that the entire situation has been blown out of proportion. But notwithstanding the fact that GRO is a jumpers paradise, or rather just because of it, you could have had some numb nut trying to make a name for himself in the jumpers community by attempting a stunt just like that.
The proper reaction of the crew should have been to gate-check this guys chute, tell him of for making dumb comments and proceed as normal.
No need to praise the crew nor condemn them of their actions or any contributor on this thread.
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The issue was not that the parachutes were in the cabin, they were trying to be clever in front of the passengers and the pax around them were uneasy, the crew were alerted and the ground staff Duty manager was called in GRO where they were faced with a wee bit of verbal from them, this was the main reason for the offload along with the comments. The pax later flew with EZY minus the cheek !!
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Konkordski, I do have to agree with your comment. The threat is what is relevant, not the ability to carry it...however since the topic has been raised I can't resist discussing it.
N380UA, the doors open inwards first. You have to over come in excess of 7 pounds for every square inch. Thats equates to between one and two tonnes of weight on the door. Next, the doors open forward. So if you do get it open (by demanding the cabin be deressurised), you now have to push it forward into 250kts of wind!! I don't believe opening a 737 door enough to jump out in flight is an option. I was under the impression that the new o/wing exits are electronically locked in the air (by air/gnd sensing so out of flt deck control). If this is incorrect, and the o/wing was opened (by convincing the capt to depress) they would certainly be ripped off. They would probably hit the tail. If they didn't, then the jumper probably would!!
I have to agree, a parachute itself is not a threat. It is at best a method of escape. If it were accompanied by a method of threat (and this could be argued to be merely a verbal threat) then it could be a cause for concern.
Cheers...BH
N380UA, the doors open inwards first. You have to over come in excess of 7 pounds for every square inch. Thats equates to between one and two tonnes of weight on the door. Next, the doors open forward. So if you do get it open (by demanding the cabin be deressurised), you now have to push it forward into 250kts of wind!! I don't believe opening a 737 door enough to jump out in flight is an option. I was under the impression that the new o/wing exits are electronically locked in the air (by air/gnd sensing so out of flt deck control). If this is incorrect, and the o/wing was opened (by convincing the capt to depress) they would certainly be ripped off. They would probably hit the tail. If they didn't, then the jumper probably would!!
I have to agree, a parachute itself is not a threat. It is at best a method of escape. If it were accompanied by a method of threat (and this could be argued to be merely a verbal threat) then it could be a cause for concern.
Cheers...BH
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The issue was not that the parachutes were in the cabin, they were trying to be clever in front of the passengers
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ok Ive calmed down and aplogise for going off on one , but the chap on here who advocated having a word has the right idea. assess the situation talk to the punter etc etc. Either way, to compare a comment about a parachute to a bomb is ludicrous. If the guy was a knob kick him off ( or as mentioned refuse boarding), but this has the same threat level as a pissed up dobber going on holiday and being a knob not a viable terrorist threat.I hear light hearted comments from punters ref parachutes all the time. Its time for a reality check before bush and his moronic ploicies brainwash us all. OOps nearly went off again
BUT talking (joking) about parachutes on a plane is not making a threat. period.
BUT talking (joking) about parachutes on a plane is not making a threat. period.
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I'm no parachutist, but seem to remember that we used to ban chutes from travelling in the cabin not for security but safety and also insist that any self opening devices were removed because of the explosive squibs (Like those on Engine Fire Bottles I guess) used to activate the device - can anyone in the know enlighten me