Air France crash at YYZ (Merged)
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Who cares what they say, the images and passenger accounts speak for themselves-try telling them they werent in a crash...
Whats important here is that we recognize that we have been very lucky and try to learn from what happened.
Whats important here is that we recognize that we have been very lucky and try to learn from what happened.
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According to Air France's website this is their current "Flight operations news".
No particular event to be reported at this time on our whole network.
For information about our flights, please refer to the "Schedule - Flight status" section of the site.
Maybe they should watch TV.
No particular event to be reported at this time on our whole network.
For information about our flights, please refer to the "Schedule - Flight status" section of the site.
Maybe they should watch TV.
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Maybe lightning was a factor, then again maybe not.
Eyewitness:
http://www.caribbeanalpa.com/cgi-bin...303333&v=2&gV=
Eyewitness:
http://www.caribbeanalpa.com/cgi-bin...303333&v=2&gV=
Join Date: May 2005
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Just been watching CNN, They are reporting it as a Plane Crash, although as stated before, it seems to be an overshoot of the runway. Reports on CNN are stating the all on board survived. Reports also suggest that plane was evacuated within 50 Seconds. Well done cabin Crew. I am just thankful that all on board have survived.
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One thing that is standard practice at most airlines is turning the lights off for takeoff and landing. With that in mind at this time I would consider that they simply turned off the lights per SOP. I can't imagine that even a lightning strike would cause a complete electrical failure.
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Having dealt with the 340 for 8yrs and quite a few lightning strikes, I would be very surprised if this was the cause. You usually end up with a splatter of entry marks and a burn area on the exit. I did see a photo from somewhere of a fixed nose u/c door with a hole in it, but on a 340 that is the worst I have seen. Certainly never heard of loss of electrics in a ny shape or form.
Also if complete electrics were lost the alternate braking (no antiskid) should have been available as it is a fully hydraulic backup, and all the static inverters and other backups should have come online, however this incident may have happened so quickly that there was little time for an considered reaction and the pilots reacted to what they saw. Well done on doing what they did. So whatever the cause it is all speculation at this stage.
Also this is not the first A340 crash, Virgin Atlantic had one in '97 with an main gear leg stuck up. Certainly looked like a crash from where I was stood, but again saved by good flying skills. So with 2 accidents in 14 years I guess that safety record will not look as good to the press now, look what they did to Concorde over 1 accident!!!
Also if complete electrics were lost the alternate braking (no antiskid) should have been available as it is a fully hydraulic backup, and all the static inverters and other backups should have come online, however this incident may have happened so quickly that there was little time for an considered reaction and the pilots reacted to what they saw. Well done on doing what they did. So whatever the cause it is all speculation at this stage.
Also this is not the first A340 crash, Virgin Atlantic had one in '97 with an main gear leg stuck up. Certainly looked like a crash from where I was stood, but again saved by good flying skills. So with 2 accidents in 14 years I guess that safety record will not look as good to the press now, look what they did to Concorde over 1 accident!!!
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Why were they trying to land in this weather??
Company pressure over diversions is getting ridiculous (trying not to be too speculative here!!).
But, from initial reports the weather was obviously absolutely appauling!!
Company pressure over diversions is getting ridiculous (trying not to be too speculative here!!).
But, from initial reports the weather was obviously absolutely appauling!!
Interesting contrast between this accident and the Mumbai 747 overshoot in what seem to have been similar conditions. Just wonder, will roasting of the AF crew and Toronto airport be as quick off the mark as it was with Mumbai?
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Farrell
liveatc is being "slashdotted" (although it has not actually being posted to slashdot), I imagine the same kind of hammering is being meted out to its servers. The 1600 ATC mp3 is currently downloading on my cable connection at a leisurely 0.6kbps!
liveatc is being "slashdotted" (although it has not actually being posted to slashdot), I imagine the same kind of hammering is being meted out to its servers. The 1600 ATC mp3 is currently downloading on my cable connection at a leisurely 0.6kbps!
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Air France again the news today
http://www.canada.com/travel/story.h...a-da4b0ec9df8c
Body found in landing gear of Air France plane arriving from Montreal
Canadian Press
Tuesday, August 02, 2005
ADVERTISEMENT
PARIS (CP) - The body of a stowaway was found Tuesday in the landing gear of an Air France plane arriving at the Roissy airport in Paris from Montreal.
"The body was found during a check of the landing gear of an Airbus A330 that came on the Montreal-Paris route," said the airline.
Air France didn't identify the victim or his nationality. The airline wasn't sure when the person boarded the aircraft
http://www.canada.com/travel/story.h...a-da4b0ec9df8c
Body found in landing gear of Air France plane arriving from Montreal
Canadian Press
Tuesday, August 02, 2005
ADVERTISEMENT
PARIS (CP) - The body of a stowaway was found Tuesday in the landing gear of an Air France plane arriving at the Roissy airport in Paris from Montreal.
"The body was found during a check of the landing gear of an Airbus A330 that came on the Montreal-Paris route," said the airline.
Air France didn't identify the victim or his nationality. The airline wasn't sure when the person boarded the aircraft
Passenger Account and Personal Observations
CBC Web Article
I was leaving my office 8 miles south of the accident site a few minutes after it happened. The rainfall was like driving through a carwash and could have been the same cell as they had been moving south on the radar pictures for the last few hours.
The satellite pictures initially showed two bubbles coming South from Tobermory that blossomed into CBs. The CB line eventually stretched along the Niagara Escarpment from Tobermory to Port Credit and eventually to Buffalo. The satellite images are considerably wider than the radar images which showed a tight band of rainfall.
The satellite images will be available for some 24 hours: Canadian Satellite Images
I don't know how to retrieve archived radar images. If anybody can, look at Buffalo, King and Britt -- it was quite a show.
I was leaving my office 8 miles south of the accident site a few minutes after it happened. The rainfall was like driving through a carwash and could have been the same cell as they had been moving south on the radar pictures for the last few hours.
The satellite pictures initially showed two bubbles coming South from Tobermory that blossomed into CBs. The CB line eventually stretched along the Niagara Escarpment from Tobermory to Port Credit and eventually to Buffalo. The satellite images are considerably wider than the radar images which showed a tight band of rainfall.
The satellite images will be available for some 24 hours: Canadian Satellite Images
I don't know how to retrieve archived radar images. If anybody can, look at Buffalo, King and Britt -- it was quite a show.
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Here's something interesting...
here's a quote from AP (updated):
I am so glad that there are so many experts out there ... 
7 7 7 7
Gwen Dunlop, a Toronto resident who was on the flight returning from vacation in France, said when the plane first touched down the passengers believed they had landed safely and clapped with relief.
"Only seconds later, it started really moving and obviously it wasn't OK," said Dunlop. "At some point the wing was off. The oxygen masks never came down; the plane was filling up with smoke."
She said one of the flight attendants tried to calm passengers and tell them that everything was fine.
"One of the hostesses said, `You can calm down, it's OK,' and yet the plane was on fire and smoke was pouring in," Dunlop told The AP. "I don't like to criticize, but the staff did not seem helpful or prepared."
"Only seconds later, it started really moving and obviously it wasn't OK," said Dunlop. "At some point the wing was off. The oxygen masks never came down; the plane was filling up with smoke."
She said one of the flight attendants tried to calm passengers and tell them that everything was fine.
"One of the hostesses said, `You can calm down, it's OK,' and yet the plane was on fire and smoke was pouring in," Dunlop told The AP. "I don't like to criticize, but the staff did not seem helpful or prepared."
7 7 7 7
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Not the first time this ravine has claimed an aircraft.
26 June, 1978 Toronto, Canada. An Air Canada DC9-32 rejected the takeoff after a tire burst and debris was ingested into an engine, causing compressor stall. Two of the 102 passengers were killed after the aircraft over ran the runway.
Heres wishing that all our overruns be long, flat and dry.
26 June, 1978 Toronto, Canada. An Air Canada DC9-32 rejected the takeoff after a tire burst and debris was ingested into an engine, causing compressor stall. Two of the 102 passengers were killed after the aircraft over ran the runway.
Heres wishing that all our overruns be long, flat and dry.
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The aircraft is a burnt out hull.
Often wondered if it would be beneficial to pave over that ravine - on the runway heading - runway width - and install a culvert - and carrier type barrier nets. No nets and highway 401 would be the end result.
Often wondered if it would be beneficial to pave over that ravine - on the runway heading - runway width - and install a culvert - and carrier type barrier nets. No nets and highway 401 would be the end result.
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FROM AIR FRANCE WEBSITE
Air France flight AF 358, inbound to Toronto from Paris, had an accident while landing at Toronto Pearson Airport. The aircraft, an Airbus A340, carried 297 passengers and 12 crew members. Everyone on board the jet was able to get off the plane. There are no victims. 22 passengers suffering minor injuries are treated at area hospitals.
Air France is doing everything to give assistance to passengers who where on board flight AF 358.
Air France has established a passenger information centre, and a toll-free number is available for family and friends of those who may have been on board flight AF 358 The toll-free number is :
For those calling from France : 0 800 800 812
For those calling from outside : + 33 1 56 93 10 00
Air France flight AF 358, inbound to Toronto from Paris, had an accident while landing at Toronto Pearson Airport. The aircraft, an Airbus A340, carried 297 passengers and 12 crew members. Everyone on board the jet was able to get off the plane. There are no victims. 22 passengers suffering minor injuries are treated at area hospitals.
Air France is doing everything to give assistance to passengers who where on board flight AF 358.
Air France has established a passenger information centre, and a toll-free number is available for family and friends of those who may have been on board flight AF 358 The toll-free number is :
For those calling from France : 0 800 800 812
For those calling from outside : + 33 1 56 93 10 00
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Often wondered if it would be beneficial to pave over that ravine - on the runway heading - runway width - and install a culvert - and carrier type barrier nets. No nets and highway 401 would be the end result.
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I think some of our members are getting a little sensitive.
If a complete loss of airframe occurred with passengers on board and with the aircraft being in rapid motion immediately after touch down is not a crash, what is?
If a complete loss of airframe occurred with passengers on board and with the aircraft being in rapid motion immediately after touch down is not a crash, what is?
Armada-thanks for the excellent news website.
It will be interesting to later read whether most emergency exits were useable, depending on how steep an angle going down any evacuation slides in uneven terrain and with any collapsed landing gear. This could cause broken bones or worse.
Also, whether the passengers went to the nearest useable exits, especially behind them.
Historically, it has been said that many passengers instinctively try to go forward to the main cabin door. The flightcrew and cabin crewmembers must have done a superb job with no time to plan and coordinate on the interphone etc.
Let's learn as much as we can from this.
It will be interesting to later read whether most emergency exits were useable, depending on how steep an angle going down any evacuation slides in uneven terrain and with any collapsed landing gear. This could cause broken bones or worse.
Also, whether the passengers went to the nearest useable exits, especially behind them.
Historically, it has been said that many passengers instinctively try to go forward to the main cabin door. The flightcrew and cabin crewmembers must have done a superb job with no time to plan and coordinate on the interphone etc.
Let's learn as much as we can from this.