Inadvertent Slide Deployment
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At the end of the day, if a slide is blown on a "bus", then it is always the cabin crews fault, because the ground crew can't blow a "bus" slide. People who aren't concentrating and aren't putting their training into practice will make mistakes. As soon as you reach the gate and are released, you should hear "cabin crew disarm doors for arrival" and then once it's done and crosschecked with your colleague you would call the senior and say "rear doors, disarmed and crosschecked" and she'll reply "and that's the forward doors disarmed and crosschecked on the F A P". ONLY at this point should the doors be opened. If someone opens it before this point, it's their fault plain and simple. All doors should be both armed and disarmed together, and remember kids, "PIN, LEVER, PIN!!!"
Rant over!
Xx
Rant over!
Xx
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EZboy, no one will argue that blowing a slide is nearly always the fault of the FA.
Which still leaves us with the industry wide problem of (a too frequent occurance of) inadvertent slide deployment.
A blown slide is terribly inconvenient for the pax that get left behind, it's dangerous for the people outside the AC, expensive for the airline and traumatic for the FA concerned.
All good reasons to look a bit further than just 'fairly and squarely appointing the blame'.
ZQA297/30 writes words of wisdom
a few pages back:
Studies on safety of cockpit operation show time and time again that where humans work, mistakes will be made. Despite good training, alertness and concentration. Making mistakes is in our nature.
So effective prevention of accidents needs to first acknowledge this simple fact instead of chasing the unnattainable goal of zero mistakes. Only then can we start to look for ways to catch these mistakes before their ultimate conclusion.
I think that there is room for improvement in the industry on the score of ISD prevention. Design has been mentioned here, and it's a very valid point. Far too many systems have an FA make the same directional movement to disarm the slide as to open the door. However different a lever and a door handle might look, as long as the movement is the same, it's just not smart design.
Another factor might be ground staff.
In our mob, the most frequently blown slide is the one on the first RH door of the 747. The door that is generally used for catering. Catering staff often starts to knock on the door as soon as the AC is standing still. Not because they are pushy bastards but because they have a very limited time to accomplish a very large job.
An FA tired after a long flight is apparently to prone to 'forgetting' procedures when under 'knocking pressure' from outside. Room for improvement again.
In some airlines the 'disarm slides' call is made by the CSD/Purser, in others it's always from the cockpit. Has a comparison ever been made between the incidence of ISD in these 2 different sytems?
I think if people smarter than me would really study this, quite a few more improvable factors would turn up.
Which still leaves us with the industry wide problem of (a too frequent occurance of) inadvertent slide deployment.
A blown slide is terribly inconvenient for the pax that get left behind, it's dangerous for the people outside the AC, expensive for the airline and traumatic for the FA concerned.
All good reasons to look a bit further than just 'fairly and squarely appointing the blame'.
ZQA297/30 writes words of wisdom
a few pages back:
Routine operations that become "non-standard" due to interruption, distraction, or other change are always fertile ground for "oopses".
This applies universally to all humans, cockpit, cabin, or ground variety. The phenomenon is exacerbated by fatigue, boredom, or stress. Sh*t happens.
This applies universally to all humans, cockpit, cabin, or ground variety. The phenomenon is exacerbated by fatigue, boredom, or stress. Sh*t happens.
So effective prevention of accidents needs to first acknowledge this simple fact instead of chasing the unnattainable goal of zero mistakes. Only then can we start to look for ways to catch these mistakes before their ultimate conclusion.
I think that there is room for improvement in the industry on the score of ISD prevention. Design has been mentioned here, and it's a very valid point. Far too many systems have an FA make the same directional movement to disarm the slide as to open the door. However different a lever and a door handle might look, as long as the movement is the same, it's just not smart design.
Another factor might be ground staff.
In our mob, the most frequently blown slide is the one on the first RH door of the 747. The door that is generally used for catering. Catering staff often starts to knock on the door as soon as the AC is standing still. Not because they are pushy bastards but because they have a very limited time to accomplish a very large job.
An FA tired after a long flight is apparently to prone to 'forgetting' procedures when under 'knocking pressure' from outside. Room for improvement again.
In some airlines the 'disarm slides' call is made by the CSD/Purser, in others it's always from the cockpit. Has a comparison ever been made between the incidence of ISD in these 2 different sytems?
I think if people smarter than me would really study this, quite a few more improvable factors would turn up.
None but a blockhead
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I hesitate to stray into the minefield between Boeing and Airbus, but might it not be sensible for standardisation here? Every passenger aircraft door has the same job to do - open when it should, stay shut when it should, and unroll the rubber carpet when it's time to dispense with the niceties and make haste. There are no reasons why the sticky-out bits that make it happen should be different... are there?
Every car company on the planet has managed to agree on brake, accelerator and clutch layout.
Flight deck standardisation... well, that's another story.
R
(Oh, saw a video of the A380 top deck overwing escape slide deploying. It goes in two directions at once - most impressive)
Every car company on the planet has managed to agree on brake, accelerator and clutch layout.
Flight deck standardisation... well, that's another story.
R
(Oh, saw a video of the A380 top deck overwing escape slide deploying. It goes in two directions at once - most impressive)
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I'm sorry, you're wrong. On the Airbus fleet the procedure is different. Door status has to be checked against ECAM status before opening since a number of slide deployments were due to false indications on the FAP. The FAP indicated that the doors were disarmed, and I suppose that the disarming process was performed by the cc, but the doors failed to disarm. The result was slide deployment. Consequently, all doors are now crosschecked/doublechecked and well and truly rogered with the flight deck before opening.
Not all unintentional slide deployment is the fault of cabin crew!
FQ
OK, just noticed that the thread has dropped the 'easyJet' from its title. The procedures above apply to easyJet, not necessarily all Airbus fleets.
Not all unintentional slide deployment is the fault of cabin crew!
FQ
OK, just noticed that the thread has dropped the 'easyJet' from its title. The procedures above apply to easyJet, not necessarily all Airbus fleets.
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Would it not be smarter to use the built in safety feature of the door/slide design and ALWAYS, in normal operations, open it from the OUTSIDE?
Then, even though the Cabin Crew check the slides are disarmed as part of the arrival procedure, the slides cannot be deployed accidentally.
There is no rocket science involved in opening a 747 or Airbus door from the outside as no disarming is necessary. Desirable maybe, but not necessary.
Aircraft and door manufacturers designed these things in this way. Why then, do airlines muck with them?
Cls
Then, even though the Cabin Crew check the slides are disarmed as part of the arrival procedure, the slides cannot be deployed accidentally.
There is no rocket science involved in opening a 747 or Airbus door from the outside as no disarming is necessary. Desirable maybe, but not necessary.
Aircraft and door manufacturers designed these things in this way. Why then, do airlines muck with them?
Cls
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CLS,
Airlines don't muck with them!! The only reason a door is designed to disarm when opened from the outside is for a very simple reason. The last thing emergency services want is to open a door and get a slide deploying into their face.
The airlines have a good policy as it is now! On not every aircraft the slide disarm when the door is operated from the outside, 727/737. So for an airline that operates a mixed fleet it is better to have one policy for the whole fleet to avoid confusion.
msexyjet,
I am sorry but i don't agree with your explanation that it could have happened because the crew memeber was tired. If you feel that you are not able to do a proper job because the company makes you work to hard then their are only two choices: call in sick or leave to another airline.
Airlines don't muck with them!! The only reason a door is designed to disarm when opened from the outside is for a very simple reason. The last thing emergency services want is to open a door and get a slide deploying into their face.
The airlines have a good policy as it is now! On not every aircraft the slide disarm when the door is operated from the outside, 727/737. So for an airline that operates a mixed fleet it is better to have one policy for the whole fleet to avoid confusion.
msexyjet,
I am sorry but i don't agree with your explanation that it could have happened because the crew memeber was tired. If you feel that you are not able to do a proper job because the company makes you work to hard then their are only two choices: call in sick or leave to another airline.
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Interesting subject -
good argument on all sides those looking at human factors try looking at a presentation given by Dr Dieter Reisinger at the cabin fire and safety conference in Atlantic city a couple of years back.
Those looking at the door arming/opening levers and procedures, Airbus know it is a problem (as do Boeing) with their aircraft and are looking to rectify it (from the horses mouth)
The two pilots (TCX I think) invention rumour is true and the device (intelligent handle or smarthandle or some name like that) should be on line over the next few months for those airlines that have signed up to it.
Basically it is a voice alert informing the operator that the door is armed. Simailar I believe to that which pilots have in the cockpit already - Glide Slope, Bank Angle, Sink Rate etc.
May it soon be on line
good argument on all sides those looking at human factors try looking at a presentation given by Dr Dieter Reisinger at the cabin fire and safety conference in Atlantic city a couple of years back.
Those looking at the door arming/opening levers and procedures, Airbus know it is a problem (as do Boeing) with their aircraft and are looking to rectify it (from the horses mouth)
The two pilots (TCX I think) invention rumour is true and the device (intelligent handle or smarthandle or some name like that) should be on line over the next few months for those airlines that have signed up to it.
Basically it is a voice alert informing the operator that the door is armed. Simailar I believe to that which pilots have in the cockpit already - Glide Slope, Bank Angle, Sink Rate etc.
May it soon be on line
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Sounds like things are getting a bit nasty here so I thought I might lighten up the argument a bit. There was a recent report of a passenger on a KA 321 who asked cabin crew directions to lav whilst the aircraft was still at the gate. The cabin crew (obviously busy) pointed vaguely aft. SLF (obviously gold tier frequent flyer) opened mid cabin emergency exit and deployed overwing slide. Love your work.
ex-Tanker
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Standardisation
You could get the impression, that only Boeing 737 and AIrbus 320 are equipped with slides...
Plenty of other ships arrive and depart from the dock - all having slides armed in different ways (eh girt bar?)
As soon as no jetty or no stairs are available, these slides have to be armed to be ready for evacuation - not "well into taxy". A couple of times I managed to prevent an MD-80 slide from being inflated by opening from the outside by a jetty operator redocking with a message.
As for standardisation in the future, it sure would be nice - however check out your turn indicator, horn (klaxon) headlight dip switch etc. on your car before deciding that all cars are standardised! There is always someone who's idea is better...
Plenty of other ships arrive and depart from the dock - all having slides armed in different ways (eh girt bar?)
As soon as no jetty or no stairs are available, these slides have to be armed to be ready for evacuation - not "well into taxy". A couple of times I managed to prevent an MD-80 slide from being inflated by opening from the outside by a jetty operator redocking with a message.
As for standardisation in the future, it sure would be nice - however check out your turn indicator, horn (klaxon) headlight dip switch etc. on your car before deciding that all cars are standardised! There is always someone who's idea is better...
Avibridge
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Cabin Crew?
Happens in all airlines when introducing 'bus fleet. Daft design of arm/disarm handle too similar to door handle.
Takes a while for C/Crew to get into correct habit.
Yes and what about other incidents such as (KAL, Malaysian, CAL) where the passengers upon spotting flames coming from the big round thing (BRT) on the near wing who promptly got up (Seat bely already undone) during pushback and opened 5R on B744 and swiftly exited followed by about twenty fellow pax. Cabin Crew? Taking drink orders before take off.
Flames? Tailpipe fire after wet start. Windmill engine for 30 secs. Then stop aircraft before running over scattered pax on tarmac. ( LOL).
No injuries to speak of apparently just a lot of lost face. Cabin crew rumoured to be complimented on following SOPs and getting drink orders correctly.
SOP rewritten. Get drink orders unless pax try uncommanded evacuation on ground. In this case. Stop drink orders and report to Chief.
Chok Dee
Takes a while for C/Crew to get into correct habit.
Yes and what about other incidents such as (KAL, Malaysian, CAL) where the passengers upon spotting flames coming from the big round thing (BRT) on the near wing who promptly got up (Seat bely already undone) during pushback and opened 5R on B744 and swiftly exited followed by about twenty fellow pax. Cabin Crew? Taking drink orders before take off.
Flames? Tailpipe fire after wet start. Windmill engine for 30 secs. Then stop aircraft before running over scattered pax on tarmac. ( LOL).
No injuries to speak of apparently just a lot of lost face. Cabin crew rumoured to be complimented on following SOPs and getting drink orders correctly.
SOP rewritten. Get drink orders unless pax try uncommanded evacuation on ground. In this case. Stop drink orders and report to Chief.
Chok Dee
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IN response to some of the comments made,
Airbus' doors are known within airlines to be easier to inadvertently blow a slide on due to their design
Anyone who's seen the inside of the 767 will see its the only Boeing Door that doesn't open out, but rather rolls into the ceiling. They will also not that the arming lever and door handle are right next to each other. The reason Boeing ditched the door design was because it has the highest incidence of inadvertent slide deployment in their commercial fleet
Every airline goes through phases of slides being blown more frequently than normal. This is usually attributed to new aircraft types in the fleet or changes to SOP's
Crew are human and can be distracted by passengers, things going on in the cabin, or just tiredness at the end of a long day. I have almost done it and Im sure others have. You're starting to flag and when you go to disarm, you see the handle marked pull and want to pull it, then luckily catch yourself before you do
Pilots make mistakes, so do we!
Airbus' doors are known within airlines to be easier to inadvertently blow a slide on due to their design
Anyone who's seen the inside of the 767 will see its the only Boeing Door that doesn't open out, but rather rolls into the ceiling. They will also not that the arming lever and door handle are right next to each other. The reason Boeing ditched the door design was because it has the highest incidence of inadvertent slide deployment in their commercial fleet
Every airline goes through phases of slides being blown more frequently than normal. This is usually attributed to new aircraft types in the fleet or changes to SOP's
Crew are human and can be distracted by passengers, things going on in the cabin, or just tiredness at the end of a long day. I have almost done it and Im sure others have. You're starting to flag and when you go to disarm, you see the handle marked pull and want to pull it, then luckily catch yourself before you do
Pilots make mistakes, so do we!
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In the airline I work for, most off the inadvertent slide deploying is caused by caterers or cleaners opening the door before bringing their truck up to the door. At a previous airline I woked for they were only allowed to open doors from the outside thus disarming the dorr if it was armed (we are obviously taling about a/c like the 747 here) The only people that were allowed to open doors from the inside were the cabin crew in an emergency (obviously), the flight crew, and the ground engineers. At that airline very few slides blown. This airline now, seems to be a regular occurence.
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Before we all blame FA's, pilots, pax or whatever, just remember Murphy's law.
If it can happen, sooner or later it will happen.
To that I will add it's likely to happen when that person is tired, happy, drunk or just a pure idiot, and boy have I've met my fair share of all catagories!
Ron
If it can happen, sooner or later it will happen.
To that I will add it's likely to happen when that person is tired, happy, drunk or just a pure idiot, and boy have I've met my fair share of all catagories!
Ron
Have been a pax on a flight in the USA that had an overwing exit slide deployed by a maintenance person. Aircraft (B757) had come across from maintenance as a replacement for a DC10 that had gone tech. Sat on the left side a few rows back from wing as passengers boarding - aware of pax having a problem in o/wing exit row - turns out that the seat belt had been trapped in the exit door - techie tried to free by pulling, no luck so just pulls the emergency handle with the result that the slide deploys - opps.
Captain comes over PA sounding less than happy and we all get off while slide is repacked (4-5 hours he said).
Are the o/wing exits disarmed at the same time as the main doors? or is there some other method by which they are disarmed.
Captain comes over PA sounding less than happy and we all get off while slide is repacked (4-5 hours he said).
Are the o/wing exits disarmed at the same time as the main doors? or is there some other method by which they are disarmed.
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3.You shouldn't be tired on the job..... I'm guessing WELL RESTED is the sentence I'm looking for. Because that's when mistakes start to happen....
CPB
Hi all
We have had a few inadvertant slide deployments in our lot, due to tiredness/cross-trained cabin crew/cleaners trying to be helpful/maintenance people who knew less than they thought. We have had the overwing slides blown by the hangar people who didn't read the book first. As an aside, I have encountered cabin crew who didn't know how to open F50 and 146 doors from the outside. Not much use to themselves or anyone else. As for those who have let slides off, have mercy. They'll get enough slagging from their mates and they won't do it again.
regards
TDD
We have had a few inadvertant slide deployments in our lot, due to tiredness/cross-trained cabin crew/cleaners trying to be helpful/maintenance people who knew less than they thought. We have had the overwing slides blown by the hangar people who didn't read the book first. As an aside, I have encountered cabin crew who didn't know how to open F50 and 146 doors from the outside. Not much use to themselves or anyone else. As for those who have let slides off, have mercy. They'll get enough slagging from their mates and they won't do it again.
regards
TDD
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kooyheier
You will find that the airline you currently work for had lots of trouble when the type was introduced, hence the streamer.
There are those that have blown a slide and those that are going to blow a slide, so i would suggest that you wind you neck in, with that smug attitude.
As loathed as I am to get involved in the discussion:
It is a known issue on the mini bus, the arming lever moves in the same ""plane" as the door opening lever, unlike the boeings where you have to either manually engage the girt bar or move a lever through a circular motion. It is a design fault in the bus. The A330 is much better.
You will find that the airline you currently work for had lots of trouble when the type was introduced, hence the streamer.
There are those that have blown a slide and those that are going to blow a slide, so i would suggest that you wind you neck in, with that smug attitude.
As loathed as I am to get involved in the discussion:
It is a known issue on the mini bus, the arming lever moves in the same ""plane" as the door opening lever, unlike the boeings where you have to either manually engage the girt bar or move a lever through a circular motion. It is a design fault in the bus. The A330 is much better.