Ryanair in Court Battles with Lufthansa
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Ryanair in Court Battles with Lufthansa
From today's Financial Times:
[quote]Ryanair protests again in battle with Lufthansa
By Kevin Done, Aerospace Correspondent
Published: January 9 2002 20:15 | Last Updated: January 9 2002 20:25
Ryanair, Europe's leading low-cost airline, on Wednesday raised the decibels in its increasingly acrimonious legal battle with Lufthansa.
It said it had lodged a second complaint with the European Commission about the German airline's alleged "dirty tricks" campaign against it.
Michael O'Leary, Ryanair chief executive, said Lufthansa had engaged in a series of "ridiculous" court actions in Germany in an attempt to stop the company from publishing advertisements comparing Lufthansa and Ryanair fares.
"Even more laughably," said Mr O'Leary, the German airline had "sought to prevent Ryanair from issuing press releases or making statements in the German market critical of Lufthansa."
The public relations and legal battle is coming to the boil, as Ryanair prepares to launch a network of routes from a new operating base in Germany at Hahn, a former US fighter base located about 60 miles west of Frankfurt. Mr O'Leary forecasts that Ryanair will almost quadruple passenger volumes through Hahn in the first 12 months of the base's operation to more than 1.5m, as the Irish airline launches the first low-fare competition against Lufthansa in the German carrier's domestic market.
It is a favourite Ryanair tactic in the belief that, in comparing air fares, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Lufthansa has won two temporary injunctions against Ryanair's alleged misleading advertisements. It said: "The fact that the court gave these injunctions shows that it shares Lufthansa's point of view. There is nothing more to say."
Mr O'Leary said that Ryanair was appealing against each injunction
<hr></blockquote>
[quote]Ryanair protests again in battle with Lufthansa
By Kevin Done, Aerospace Correspondent
Published: January 9 2002 20:15 | Last Updated: January 9 2002 20:25
Ryanair, Europe's leading low-cost airline, on Wednesday raised the decibels in its increasingly acrimonious legal battle with Lufthansa.
It said it had lodged a second complaint with the European Commission about the German airline's alleged "dirty tricks" campaign against it.
Michael O'Leary, Ryanair chief executive, said Lufthansa had engaged in a series of "ridiculous" court actions in Germany in an attempt to stop the company from publishing advertisements comparing Lufthansa and Ryanair fares.
"Even more laughably," said Mr O'Leary, the German airline had "sought to prevent Ryanair from issuing press releases or making statements in the German market critical of Lufthansa."
The public relations and legal battle is coming to the boil, as Ryanair prepares to launch a network of routes from a new operating base in Germany at Hahn, a former US fighter base located about 60 miles west of Frankfurt. Mr O'Leary forecasts that Ryanair will almost quadruple passenger volumes through Hahn in the first 12 months of the base's operation to more than 1.5m, as the Irish airline launches the first low-fare competition against Lufthansa in the German carrier's domestic market.
It is a favourite Ryanair tactic in the belief that, in comparing air fares, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Lufthansa has won two temporary injunctions against Ryanair's alleged misleading advertisements. It said: "The fact that the court gave these injunctions shows that it shares Lufthansa's point of view. There is nothing more to say."
Mr O'Leary said that Ryanair was appealing against each injunction
<hr></blockquote>
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LH are fighting a lost cause. The Germans will love FR's low fares and LH doesn't stand a chance in fighting FR. They might as well give up now before losing any more money in pointless legal battles.
The future for German air travel is Irish!!!
The future for German air travel is Irish!!!
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FlyingIrishMan
There is a remote chance that a few Germans might be tempted by FR's pricing. However, many Germans (except Ossies - East Germans) have grown up in a society that firmly believes in producing top quality producs to be sold at premium prices, which is why everyone there earns better money than their Irish counterparts (shop floor & cockpit). <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Ryanair's advertisements will alienate the German public. As a German you would never live it down if your friends, work colleagues or neighbours found out that you travelled on a budget airline. You have to keep us with the Schidts (no Jones'), and the Schmidts can afford to travel on Lufthansa.
But MOL needn't worry. There are 4 million guest workers in Germany looking for cheap tickets. Shame they all want to go to IST, ADB and AYT.
Perhaps we will soon see an FR hub in Istanbul.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
There is a remote chance that a few Germans might be tempted by FR's pricing. However, many Germans (except Ossies - East Germans) have grown up in a society that firmly believes in producing top quality producs to be sold at premium prices, which is why everyone there earns better money than their Irish counterparts (shop floor & cockpit). <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Ryanair's advertisements will alienate the German public. As a German you would never live it down if your friends, work colleagues or neighbours found out that you travelled on a budget airline. You have to keep us with the Schidts (no Jones'), and the Schmidts can afford to travel on Lufthansa.
But MOL needn't worry. There are 4 million guest workers in Germany looking for cheap tickets. Shame they all want to go to IST, ADB and AYT.
Perhaps we will soon see an FR hub in Istanbul.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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Would this be the same Ryanair that was admonished this week by the Advertising Standards Authority for misleading the UK public? Apparently they were advertising 'Every seat on every flight reduced', with a rather selective definition of 'every' being Monday to Thursday on selected flights only, or something like that. Oops!
[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: Hand Solo ]</p>
[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: Hand Solo ]</p>
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Who cares about Mr.Schmidt's decisions! I can't wait for FR offering more flights from Germany and many others do as well.
It's time LH gets kicked in the ass and I'm sure Ryanair will be successful in doing that...
By the way, by running to court every two days Ryanair gets the attention which LH tries to keep low...
Regards
Udito
It's time LH gets kicked in the ass and I'm sure Ryanair will be successful in doing that...
By the way, by running to court every two days Ryanair gets the attention which LH tries to keep low...
Regards
Udito
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As long as Ryanair point out in there ads that Hahn in 60 miles away from FRA, and that there is no infrastructure in place to get people to and from Frankfurt, then i see no problem.
[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]</p>
[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]</p>
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Don't sit on the fence V50, whatever you do.
I've heard the argument about the Germans preferring quality before. Time will tell. I would ask you one thing though; if LH believed that the Germans wouldn't be tempted by low prices because of peer pressure, why would they spend so much money trying to block all of the adverts?
I've heard the argument about the Germans preferring quality before. Time will tell. I would ask you one thing though; if LH believed that the Germans wouldn't be tempted by low prices because of peer pressure, why would they spend so much money trying to block all of the adverts?
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I am sorry if my remarks allowed any leeway for interpretation. MOL is and always will be, a tight fisted, arragont, obnoxius, self promoting bastard.
Thats my chest cleared, back to the world of internet security
Thats my chest cleared, back to the world of internet security
charterguy:
I don´t think you´re quite right about the "Schmidts".
Germans are look very closely at what price they pay.
If Ryanair offered the same as LH (dep/dest airports, routes, frequencies) for a lower price, people would use them.
Fact is, Ryanair flies to/from Hahn, which is at least an hours drive from FRA (or any other "civilized" region for that matter) and to Luebeck (north of HAM) and possibly some other "out-of-the-way" places in Deutschland.
DLH tried to analyze the success of the UK low-cost companies a few years back.
It all has to do with the market from which they mainly operate to/from - the greater London area.
There is currently no other catchment (could be spelled wrong) area of this magnitude in the world.
You have millions of potential customers living within 60Min. of one of the three major airports there.
AND: GB is an island, so airplane travel to the continent has a definite time-advantage over all other modes of transport.
(Only LTU was able to duplicate this biz-model between DUS and PMI - also on an island - in Germany.)
We´ll see if the market in Germany is big enough for Ryanair´s model.
I don´t believe Ryanair itself is the "problem" for DLH (albeit they´re a "pain in the ..."), but rather the fact, that they might be sucking potential long-haul passengers away from Germany to LHR.
DBA has been rather annoying for us, too, but they´re not making much money either.
The real "enemy" for DLH is west of the Rhine anyway...
JMHO
I don´t think you´re quite right about the "Schmidts".
Germans are look very closely at what price they pay.
If Ryanair offered the same as LH (dep/dest airports, routes, frequencies) for a lower price, people would use them.
Fact is, Ryanair flies to/from Hahn, which is at least an hours drive from FRA (or any other "civilized" region for that matter) and to Luebeck (north of HAM) and possibly some other "out-of-the-way" places in Deutschland.
DLH tried to analyze the success of the UK low-cost companies a few years back.
It all has to do with the market from which they mainly operate to/from - the greater London area.
There is currently no other catchment (could be spelled wrong) area of this magnitude in the world.
You have millions of potential customers living within 60Min. of one of the three major airports there.
AND: GB is an island, so airplane travel to the continent has a definite time-advantage over all other modes of transport.
(Only LTU was able to duplicate this biz-model between DUS and PMI - also on an island - in Germany.)
We´ll see if the market in Germany is big enough for Ryanair´s model.
I don´t believe Ryanair itself is the "problem" for DLH (albeit they´re a "pain in the ..."), but rather the fact, that they might be sucking potential long-haul passengers away from Germany to LHR.
DBA has been rather annoying for us, too, but they´re not making much money either.
The real "enemy" for DLH is west of the Rhine anyway...
JMHO
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Charterguy:
What you are saying nicely phrased is basically that Germans are thick and unable to do simple maths. I very much doubt that given an alternative that is 70% cheaper, a German will chose LH just for the sake of it.
While for business travellers HHN might be a little out of the way, holiday makers and the casually travelling public will love FR.
Willkommen zu Deutschland Low Fares!!
What you are saying nicely phrased is basically that Germans are thick and unable to do simple maths. I very much doubt that given an alternative that is 70% cheaper, a German will chose LH just for the sake of it.
While for business travellers HHN might be a little out of the way, holiday makers and the casually travelling public will love FR.
Willkommen zu Deutschland Low Fares!!
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TheFlyingIrishman
Have you ever seen Germans on holiday? They love to complain about everything. It's in their nature. Well, you cannot look a gift horse in the mouth, which is why Germans would sooner pay a bit more, thus 'buying the right to complain'.
I'd love to see MOL stranding a plane load of German pax in Ireland or the UK. Zat wud be ze start of world war sree !! If this was to happen MOL would get serious publicity in Germany, but not the kind he wants.
Have you ever seen Germans on holiday? They love to complain about everything. It's in their nature. Well, you cannot look a gift horse in the mouth, which is why Germans would sooner pay a bit more, thus 'buying the right to complain'.
I'd love to see MOL stranding a plane load of German pax in Ireland or the UK. Zat wud be ze start of world war sree !! If this was to happen MOL would get serious publicity in Germany, but not the kind he wants.
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I've seen Germans on holiday, and from what I see they appear to have higher expectations than...oohhh let's say...the Brits?, the Irish?
They have nice clean pubs with good beer and no puking, drug taking thugs in shell suits.
They seem to like good food and clean restaurants, not 'chicken 'n' chips' down the Nags Head.
They also like to have the best sun loungers, and they get up at the crack of dawn to make sure they get 'em. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
This may be a cultural thing, but I'd bet a pound to a euro that while the prices might attract them, they won't be so understanding as your average paddy or brit (who are, lets face it, well used to the concept of crap service) when it comes to being told to naff off when things don't go to plan.
Like you said...we shall see. It'll be an interesting cultural experiment to watch from a safe distance.
They have nice clean pubs with good beer and no puking, drug taking thugs in shell suits.
They seem to like good food and clean restaurants, not 'chicken 'n' chips' down the Nags Head.
They also like to have the best sun loungers, and they get up at the crack of dawn to make sure they get 'em. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
This may be a cultural thing, but I'd bet a pound to a euro that while the prices might attract them, they won't be so understanding as your average paddy or brit (who are, lets face it, well used to the concept of crap service) when it comes to being told to naff off when things don't go to plan.
Like you said...we shall see. It'll be an interesting cultural experiment to watch from a safe distance.
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what a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that FR are not new to Frankfurt, they have been operating succesfully in the German market for a couple of years. the real change is that now they are basing staff and aircraft there and adding more routes. they would not be doing this if the existing routes from Hahn werent doing well and they obviously see Hahn as a winning formula.
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Charterguy,
are you really convinced about the load of **** you write? These comments are like the lousy and cheap yellow press headlines which can be read whenever German and English soccer team face each other...so much for your seriousness...
Regards
Udo
are you really convinced about the load of **** you write? These comments are like the lousy and cheap yellow press headlines which can be read whenever German and English soccer team face each other...so much for your seriousness...
Regards
Udo
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FYI, comparative advertising is forbidden in Germany. LH would not be allowed to have an ad campaign comparing their service with that of Ryanair, or showing German pax stranded on a Ryanair plane.
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@Idunno
____________
They also like to have the best sun loungers, and they get up at the crack of dawn to make sure they get 'em.
____________
After all, we have something in common with the Brit´s!!!
[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: Airking ]</p>
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They also like to have the best sun loungers, and they get up at the crack of dawn to make sure they get 'em.
____________
After all, we have something in common with the Brit´s!!!
[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: Airking ]</p>
