Manchester Security

[bjcc]

A few points to consider...

'Being touched up':

If you were asked to search someone I can ganantee you would avoid any intimate area, it's human nature. Therefore, if you have something you shouldn't, where would you put it?

An example, a lady who worked for a very big airline at LHR was used in anti terrorist excercies when I was there, she'd had a breast removed. She used to hide a granade in the 'empty' side...and guess what? It was virtualy never found! And she was searched by trained police officers.

There is a very fine line between a sexual assault and a search that has to include parts of your body you don't want strangers touching. Yes, they may go over things more than once, possibly because they may have thought they felt something that shouldn't have been there.

Searches when the bleep doesn't go off...The bleep is irrelevent, the DfT dictate how many people in 10 have to be physicaly searched (no stipulation is made for crew/pax/other airport workers). Those searches are at random.

Most people wear a watch, a other bits of metal about them which can cause the detector to go off. Others have metal plates in limbs (some of which do set off the detectors)

No, the object of searches is not to detect DfT inspectors. The idea of the inspectors is to make sure the searches are being carried out to a standard. Similar to whats been said, but the idea being that the search is able to find most objects. It wont find anything, nothing short of a strip search and a rubber glove will do that.

Unless something has changed in the last few years there is no right or power as such to search, however it is a condition of going airside. There in lays the answer, if you don't like it....

Oh and for information...I went though MAN last week. I set off the detector. I was searched, asked to remove my shoes, made to walk though the detector again, then again. eventualy they were happy and off I went. Did it bother me? No, not really, I'd rather that, than find myself freefalling from 20,000 feet.

[mikeyuk]

Thank's to hasta and bjcc

At last people with some common sense,thank you.

[mondriver]

Looks like you are incapable of having a rational conversation without getting emotional mikeyuk....so I'll reply to you to see what other insults you sling my way.

If you do indeed know where I am talking about going for a medical, then please explain to me the checkpoint I must pass to get from "controlled" lanside to airside via the hangar access areas.....?

Yes I accept that I am not directly going "airside" by passing through the security point in my car, but it would take less than 10secs to get access to apron and airside facilities from there, without passing through additional security points......

So...please...before you insult ME...get YOUR facts right.


My point...which I will re-iterate again...is that I DO NOT object to searches and will obviously always be searched when required (by quota or a detector going off). What I object to is being frisked by hand and then waved through. I have been tempted on many occasions to ask the security guy what set the detector off.... but as my priority is to my company to get a flight away on time, and not to play the games of security, I have refrained.

.....incoming.....

[mikeyuk]

There are only 2 ways to get airside from Weat site .
The main vehicle acess point with the row of 4 barriers and the NEA terminal who have there own Security.There is no other direct access from the hangers without climbing a fence.If you do know of another way i think it is in your intrest to inform someone at the airport pronto.

"What I object to is being frisked by hand and then waved through. I have been tempted on many occasions to ask the security guy what set the detector off."

Most competent security officers can often tell what sets the AMD off after a frisk if nothing is actually found.We are constantly looking at what other metal you have on your person i.e watch, change, belt , jewellery and what type of footwear.Please in future do ask the ASO what set it off and let them explain to you what they think.

I'm sorry if i have insulted anyone but if people constantly had a go at the job you do , i'm sure you would flip once in a while.

[16 blades]

Just an aside - since you can only be searched by a member of the same sex, for obvious reasons, can you object to being searched by a gay man / woman (for the same reasons)? It'd be interesting to see THAT one in action...

16B

[bjcc]

mondriver

Without wishing to wind this up...How else do you expect to be searched other than by hand?

explosives don't set off detectors and a wand certainly wont find anything non metalic...


Being frisked is about all that is left.

Maybe creating a fuss will get the place of search changed, maybe it will only result in you being banned from going airside....irrespective the searches will continue and of course you run the risk of turning a perception of crews being targeted into reality.

[fmgc]

bjcc

Using your logic you might as well get rid of the arches and hand search everybody.

[7006 fan]

I get frisked quite regularly, sometimes it's because I have left my office keys in my pocket, or I forgot to take my mobile out of my jacket. I have pointed this out but am still searched, could ask "what's the point of this, I walk through here 4/5 times a day plus, I am more senior to you, you will obey me" NO, when I am in Security Search my seniority is worth nothing -they are the boss. And heck what is 20 odd seconds of your life.
As for getting 'touched up' search is m-m f-f, must be about the most pathetic excuse I have ever heard for not being searched.
I have been in queues in America where people have said to someone in the queue:
'hey Honey, they won't let me take this as I have too many bags, could you take it for me!!!" The scarey thing was the response:
"Sugar that's no problem"!!!
Is that what we prefer
As for "my first duty is to my Company", then security is obviously top of that list, coz no-one will thank the security guard who lets the psycho employee through!!!
Like anything in life to be free to move about means having some restrictions, we all know airports must be secure but a security search is in no way like the infamous SUS law of the 1980's (Stop Under Suspicion) for those too young or not born then!

[chiglet]

"Security" ...
Eons ago, the only access to Manchester Tower Block was through the "Fuel Farm/Freight Apron "security gate".
At that time, I rode a motorcycle. On a fine, dry day, "security" would wave me through [visor down] .....However, if it was raining.....I was stopped, visor up and ID card produced
Me, I was in my waterproofs, the "security" were in "shirt sleeves", being in their little hut
Nothing has changed
watp.iktch

[Ignition Override]

What helps make it an easy experience is to wear newer (Rockport) uniform shoes which have no metal-they are not attractive, but so what. As I walk up to the security ckeckpoint I stick my expensive hotel room ballpoint pen and cellphone in the 'smaller' pocket at the top of my suitcase. The same for change from one's pants pockets. All we need to do then, is fold our uniform coat in half and put it in the plastic container+ throw flight bag and suitcase up there. The x-ray is triggered by the total amount of metal. It never beeps when I go through. Just by knowing what metallic objects are on you and in one continuous motion putting most stuff in your own suitcase pocket takes care of most of the frustration. It only takes five seconds to stick it in there and zip the pocket closed. Or stick it in your uniform coat pocket if the coat goes on the conveyer belt. Luckily, we leave our coats home during the hot summer. Unlike the widebody crews, we are the sweaty workhorses of our company.

To help avoid losing the airline ident. card, maybe you can buy a long, thin red strap and it still hangs around your neck-even if the clip is knocked loose. It makes it much easier to spot the id card if it ever falls on the floor someplace onto some other stuff, or falls from the x-ray belt. How about rarely jumpseating on another airline and the gate agent forgets to give it back to you (!) as you are running late! This card has never set off the warning.

[Swatters]

Mondriver now says ..... "Yes I accept that I am not directly going "airside" by passing through the security point in my car, but it would take less than 10secs to get access to apron and airside facilities from there, without passing through additional security points...... ..... Please can you explain how this would be possible !!!!

[longstay]

Manchester airport, ahhhhhhhh, pathetic.

I myself had my wallet checked the other day........ !

I told the bloke that I had no need to smuggle some nail file through security in my wallet with which to hijack myself since I had an axe in the flightdeck, he looked shocked and at on point I thought he was going to accompany to the a/c to confiscate it !!!!!!

Bloke infront of me had to take his hat off.............. ! - what the hell could he have under his hat ???? that he has just walked through the hoop with anyway ?????

I read in the press the other day that the government are relaxing the nonsense on 'sharp' objects airside, re-installing metal cutlery on flights etc... but this is up to individual airports now !!!!!
Why, what sense does it make that you can have metal cutlery on a flight from say Leeds but not from say Manchester ????
The DTR seem to be another government nonsense 'quango' full of morons at desks.

oh, swatters, r u for real ??? anyone who is based there knows what is being said, i,m sure no one is silly enough to 'explain it' to you !!!!!

[mikeyuk]

Longstay

oh, swatters, r u for real ??? anyone who is based there knows what is being said, i,m sure no one is silly enough to 'explain it' to you !!!!!

Please do explain !!!!!!!
I work there and would love to know .

Bloke infront of me had to take his hat off.............. ! - what the hell could he have under his hat ???? that he has just walked through the hoop with anyway ?????

If you read earlier posts there are alot of stealth weapons now on the market (thats made of plastic's to you) so the Hoop as you strangely put it (pressume you mean the AMD) would not be activated.

[longstay]

Mikeuk, get real, i have more security clearance than you as does any pilot ! understand, i don't need a plastic anything under my hat, nor does any other pilot !!!!!!!! i have a METAL axe, a METAL axe in my place of work, as does every other pilot !!!!!!!

[mikeyuk]

You didn't say the person infront was a pilot but that aside, it is a DFT requirement that all hats are removed whether your staff or passenger.
I think you will find we have to have the same security clearance.

oh, swatters, r u for real ??? anyone who is based there knows what is being said, i,m sure no one is silly enough to 'explain it' to you !!!!!

Still not answered the question!!!!!!

[FLCH]

I have to admit, the TSA can be overwhelmingly obtuse sometimes, if you have to go thru secondary screening most of the TSA people go thru the routine. there are some paranoid one that are looking for a "smoking gun". However, I was passing thru a staff checkpoint in the UK, about a year ago, I was stopped and asked to show my passport and pilots licence, as I was not "with the rest of the crew", the Flight attendants were duty free shopping and the Capt. went to find breakfast. After a thorough exam, bags and pat down, my licence was taken away from me for "futher examination". The security people were pleasant enough I must admit. When my licence was returned, a few snide comments were made about photocopying my licence(as there is no pisture id), so they (the security screeners) could pose as pilots too. Now I went thru security to get on my plane to go to work ...not to get into a discussion about the appearance of my pilots licence. It had happened several times after that too (ie wanting to see my passport and licence), all with different people manning the post. You only have to read the posts about security at MAN to see all is not well there either. Needless to say I don't bid this city anymore on my line.....

[longstay]

So mike, what newspaper do you work for ?

[mealie puddin]

longstay: just because you have a axe behind you, it don't mean you have a security clearance, it's only a basic tool required in case of escape, ( cavemen had axe's), there is much going on that you/we as pilots don't/shouldn't need to know.

Anyway hats look daft, blast from the military past.

[chrisnutter1]

Security

I think really and truthfully we've all heard enough on whether or not security staff are competent at their jobs don't you?? We have foul mouthed, homophobic, arrogant son's of who are aptly titled pilots..... there are also people who work for security who seem a little cack handed with their searches and a little obnoxious. It's already been said that we shouldn't tar each of our 'kind' with the same brush. I agree that (as crew) we have things on the aircraft that could be used as offensive weapons axes, oxygen bottles, anything. Rules however silly we think they are, are there for a reason. You visit the USA you have to take your jacket off when you pass through security (As a minimum) common sense prevails here folks. We expect security to look out for us, we don't get to see whats in our pax bags, we don't get the opportunity to check out those pax who look a bit suspect. Why don't we leave the security side of things to the people who are actually paid to deal with security. If you (pilots) got some security agent telling you what speed to lower your flaps you'd be a bit p****d off too no?! Improvements are needed in all areas of the aviation industry, aircrew are taught CRM it doesn't just 'go' on the aircraft.

Just remeber next time you go through security, the guy frisking probably doesn't want to have to put his hands anywhere near half the smelly old gits out there he's just doing a job however poorly you think he's doing it!

[Jet2]

Although I'm not convinced of the effectiveness of the security checkpoints at MAN, I can only speak from my own experience. I have only ever found the security staff to be friendly and not intrusive. When I went through a phase of beeping the scanner, one of the security officers overheard me talking to my colleague as to what was setting it off and, after doing the search, kindly took the time to show it was my shoes by using the handheld scanner. However, I have rarely beeped the scanner since and I still have the same shoes ..... ???? It's sad to hear others have had problems but no complaints about the staff from me.

Only thing that does annoy me is the large queue of passengers in the staff channel on busy days. Kind of defeats the idea of having a staff channel really!