UK pilot breathalysed after go arounds
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UK pilot breathalysed after go arounds
A BACX pilot was last week breathalysed after performing two go arounds at MAN due to a technical problem.
A passenger reported to police that he "must be drunk as he took three goes to land the plane".
Police breathalysed the Captain who was negative.
Speechless.
This law is totally flawed by stupid or malicious accusations.
OK BJCC, over to you for some ex-cop pontificating.
A passenger reported to police that he "must be drunk as he took three goes to land the plane".
Police breathalysed the Captain who was negative.
Speechless.
This law is totally flawed by stupid or malicious accusations.
OK BJCC, over to you for some ex-cop pontificating.
Uncle Pete
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Jeeeeeez.
I'm glad I'm out of it.
Would the same passenger run to the cops if his/her partner picked him up from the airport and smelt of cooking sherry, but then perhaps it didn't take him/her three goes to park the car, or did it?
MP
I'm glad I'm out of it.
Would the same passenger run to the cops if his/her partner picked him up from the airport and smelt of cooking sherry, but then perhaps it didn't take him/her three goes to park the car, or did it?
MP
Last edited by MaximumPete; 28th Jan 2005 at 10:31.
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If this statement is true
and I was the captain in question, I would give serious consideration to suing for libel.
The only thing that would put me off is that the pax may not be able to pay my costs, when I won.
passenger reported to police that he "must be drunk as he took three goes to land the plane".
The only thing that would put me off is that the pax may not be able to pay my costs, when I won.
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behind_the_second_midland
'OK BJCC, over to you for some ex-cop pontificating'
The breath test was negative...Has not appeared in the press, or if it has, there was no big thing made over it. Except by you.
Ever been breath tested driving and been negative? I have, so have 1000's of other people. Many of those, as the result of what someone thinks. So lets get rid of the breath test for drivers shall we?
Try reading the act, instead of pontificating over it....The passenger did not breath test the pilot, Police did. It was the officers decision to do so not the informant.
'OK BJCC, over to you for some ex-cop pontificating'
The breath test was negative...Has not appeared in the press, or if it has, there was no big thing made over it. Except by you.
Ever been breath tested driving and been negative? I have, so have 1000's of other people. Many of those, as the result of what someone thinks. So lets get rid of the breath test for drivers shall we?
Try reading the act, instead of pontificating over it....The passenger did not breath test the pilot, Police did. It was the officers decision to do so not the informant.
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Let me get this right. The pilot has a technical problem, demanding considerable concentration and probably a little perspiration, and some aggrieved passenger can get a policemann to breathalyse him????
Someone tell me this is not true!!
I dread to think what will haappen after my next sim check!
Will I get breatyhalysed after every "non standard" event in future? Does the policeman even know what is "normal" and what is not in avaition? On what basis of suspicion was this guy tested?
Pathetic. The law is really an ass.
So how about this - let's remove the fun and games before it gets going. How about a machine at check in. You blow, get cleared for the duty you are about to start and then all these scalp hunters can go get lost...
Amazed
Someone tell me this is not true!!
I dread to think what will haappen after my next sim check!
Will I get breatyhalysed after every "non standard" event in future? Does the policeman even know what is "normal" and what is not in avaition? On what basis of suspicion was this guy tested?
Pathetic. The law is really an ass.
So how about this - let's remove the fun and games before it gets going. How about a machine at check in. You blow, get cleared for the duty you are about to start and then all these scalp hunters can go get lost...
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On the subject of go-arounds...
Recently came across this award winning piece of journalism. (A little off topic I know).
"Screams as Team Plane Pulls Out of Landing"
I find amusing the commentary on the pilot's performance and state of mind.
"Screams as Team Plane Pulls Out of Landing"
I find amusing the commentary on the pilot's performance and state of mind.
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The Policeman in question wants breath tested
This is one of the most dumb-assed reasons I have heard of to breath test a pilot/Captain.
BJCC
You seem to think the local copper had every right to humiliate this Captain by asking him to blow into the tube!
Correct me if I am wrong........... Under existing laws, UK police can only carry out a breath test if they believe the driver has been drinking.
Instead of "driver" as in road, make that "Captain" as in air......... so tell me BJCC, what had the copper to go on that made him seriously believe the Captain had been drinking - as far as I can tell, he only had some second-hand (?) verbal announcement from some PRAT 'down the back' ?
I do not condone drinking and driving, and I certainly do not condone drinking and flying, in fact I want far tougher penalties: BUT, there cannot be a case to breath-test a Commander on the say so of some ignorant fool riding down the back who thinks "3 goes to land the plane" equates to being drunk or indeed even having had a drink.
As Old King Cole said slander!
As Final 3 Greens suggests, I too would be after that bast*rd for slander - and I would write a very stiff letter to the Chief Constable to get the ball rolling.
If you think BJCC the "officer" (ha!) made a wise decision by using such pathetic evidence from an "informant" then I think you have been badly misled........... an ex-copper yourself? Pheww.
The police have a very difficult time on the streets, but to be reduced to this crap, does nothing to limit true crime.
I hope the Captain takes this further, so no further stupidity is enforced upon those who fly.
Like Max Pete, I am glad I am out of the profession, and so sorry for you guys that have to put up with such sh*t.
TG
BJCC
You seem to think the local copper had every right to humiliate this Captain by asking him to blow into the tube!
Correct me if I am wrong........... Under existing laws, UK police can only carry out a breath test if they believe the driver has been drinking.
Instead of "driver" as in road, make that "Captain" as in air......... so tell me BJCC, what had the copper to go on that made him seriously believe the Captain had been drinking - as far as I can tell, he only had some second-hand (?) verbal announcement from some PRAT 'down the back' ?
I do not condone drinking and driving, and I certainly do not condone drinking and flying, in fact I want far tougher penalties: BUT, there cannot be a case to breath-test a Commander on the say so of some ignorant fool riding down the back who thinks "3 goes to land the plane" equates to being drunk or indeed even having had a drink.
As Old King Cole said slander!
As Final 3 Greens suggests, I too would be after that bast*rd for slander - and I would write a very stiff letter to the Chief Constable to get the ball rolling.
If you think BJCC the "officer" (ha!) made a wise decision by using such pathetic evidence from an "informant" then I think you have been badly misled........... an ex-copper yourself? Pheww.
The police have a very difficult time on the streets, but to be reduced to this crap, does nothing to limit true crime.
I hope the Captain takes this further, so no further stupidity is enforced upon those who fly.
Like Max Pete, I am glad I am out of the profession, and so sorry for you guys that have to put up with such sh*t.
TG
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Old King Coal
Although not a lawyer, as I understand the law ...
- Slander is a false statement
- Libel is a false and malicious statement
Libel can be caused by a written or spoken statement.
Given the circumstances reported here (they may not be accurate), I think the latter would likely apply.
Neither are offences, since they are not criminal, but civil actions.
BJCC
The policeman may have made the decision to test the pilot, but he was applying the criminal law, not the civil law.
The pax who allegedly made the accusation can still be held to account for his/her actions in the civil courts, although a pyrrhic victory may be the result.
We shouldn't forget that both codes run in parallel under some circumstances.
Although not a lawyer, as I understand the law ...
- Slander is a false statement
- Libel is a false and malicious statement
Libel can be caused by a written or spoken statement.
Given the circumstances reported here (they may not be accurate), I think the latter would likely apply.
Neither are offences, since they are not criminal, but civil actions.
BJCC
The policeman may have made the decision to test the pilot, but he was applying the criminal law, not the civil law.
The pax who allegedly made the accusation can still be held to account for his/her actions in the civil courts, although a pyrrhic victory may be the result.
We shouldn't forget that both codes run in parallel under some circumstances.
...... I wonder if they will use Tornado's as the Spotter aircraft with the Polite man in the rear seat 
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<<If this had been anywhere near true it would have been all over the media. I don't believe a word of it.>>
I have no knowledge of this current incident but, based on my experience over a long time, I wouldn't doubt it one bit. I have been involved in perfectly normal, safe, go-arounds which suddenly became "seconds from disaster" simply because some pop-idol prat was on board and mouthed off to everyone on landing. I also experienced a passenger ringing ATC to file an airmiss!!! He'd seen something "alongside" during a bank in a holding pattern and insisted that it had been dangerous... wanted the pilot and controller suspended, etc. You can't believe the loonies who get on aeroplanes (at the back, that is!!)
I have no knowledge of this current incident but, based on my experience over a long time, I wouldn't doubt it one bit. I have been involved in perfectly normal, safe, go-arounds which suddenly became "seconds from disaster" simply because some pop-idol prat was on board and mouthed off to everyone on landing. I also experienced a passenger ringing ATC to file an airmiss!!! He'd seen something "alongside" during a bank in a holding pattern and insisted that it had been dangerous... wanted the pilot and controller suspended, etc. You can't believe the loonies who get on aeroplanes (at the back, that is!!)
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Tartan Giant
'Correct me if I am wrong........... Under existing laws, UK police can only carry out a breath test if they believe the driver has been drinking. '
No, Thats one of 3 reasons.
'If you think BJCC the "officer" (ha!) made a wise decision by using such pathetic evidence from an "informant" then I think you have been badly misled........... an ex-copper yourself? Pheww.'
'
Did I say he made a wise decision? No, I did not, nor did I say he didn't.
You jumped to a conclution, rather like this passenger appears to have done. I don't know I wasn't there. I presume nor were you, so think of it another way, how do you know he didn't have good reason to test?
Before you go jumping in with suggestions of sueing, think about the next time someone sees a house being broken into and thinks 'I wont ring the police, it might be innocent and I'll get sued.'
Runway 31, it may well be true, and in spite of the scare mongering on here, perhaps it isn't newsworthy.
'Correct me if I am wrong........... Under existing laws, UK police can only carry out a breath test if they believe the driver has been drinking. '
No, Thats one of 3 reasons.
'If you think BJCC the "officer" (ha!) made a wise decision by using such pathetic evidence from an "informant" then I think you have been badly misled........... an ex-copper yourself? Pheww.'
'
Did I say he made a wise decision? No, I did not, nor did I say he didn't.
You jumped to a conclution, rather like this passenger appears to have done. I don't know I wasn't there. I presume nor were you, so think of it another way, how do you know he didn't have good reason to test?
Before you go jumping in with suggestions of sueing, think about the next time someone sees a house being broken into and thinks 'I wont ring the police, it might be innocent and I'll get sued.'
Runway 31, it may well be true, and in spite of the scare mongering on here, perhaps it isn't newsworthy.
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T'other night an A321 did 2 [repeat, 2] Go Arounds at Manch, then Diverted to Liverpool [Reason, 40kt Xwind]. Following night, same pilot landed ok [15kt Xwind] Remark from pilot. "Not as bad as last night" 
Was he "Breathalised?"
Rollocks
watp,iktch
Was he "Breathalised?"
Rollocks
watp,iktch
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OK Mr Plod
Right then BJCC......... with your old copper hat on, some questions for you.
1. What are the other two reasons that a policeman has solid grounds to ask somebody to blow into the bag?
2. Did the policeman in the purported incident have these other two reasons as back-up?
3. Getting off the fence for a moment, knowing what you know of this alledged incident, is it reasonable for this Commander to blow into the bag?
4. I think you would know for damn sure if I had been there - I would have said - and I would have rather more solid ground to jump to more conclusions, that this initial report of some prat down the back causing trouble for no sound reason that anybody here can see.
If you think a few go-arounds is good reason for a breath test then we have further evidence that we have nannies looking after us rather than policemen - would you agree?
5. There can be no comparison of actualy SEEING a crime in progress (breaking and entering) and this alledged incident where a passenger ASSUMES a crime has been committed through his pure ignorance - would you not agree?
6. From what you have read ( we all know you are not in possession of the true facts) of this passenger causing a Captain to be breath-tested, do you believe a policeman has good reason to ask the guy to blow in the bag?
TG
1. What are the other two reasons that a policeman has solid grounds to ask somebody to blow into the bag?
2. Did the policeman in the purported incident have these other two reasons as back-up?
3. Getting off the fence for a moment, knowing what you know of this alledged incident, is it reasonable for this Commander to blow into the bag?
You jumped to a conclution (sic), rather like this passenger appears to have done. I don't know I wasn't there. I presume nor were you, so think of it another way, how do you know he didn't have good reason to test?
If you think a few go-arounds is good reason for a breath test then we have further evidence that we have nannies looking after us rather than policemen - would you agree?
5. There can be no comparison of actualy SEEING a crime in progress (breaking and entering) and this alledged incident where a passenger ASSUMES a crime has been committed through his pure ignorance - would you not agree?
6. From what you have read ( we all know you are not in possession of the true facts) of this passenger causing a Captain to be breath-tested, do you believe a policeman has good reason to ask the guy to blow in the bag?
TG
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Tartan Giant
In the case of cars ..involved in an accident or a moving traffic offence.
In the case of aviation. Involved in an accident.
In both cases there does not have to be any suspicision of drink.
There obviously wasn't an accident, but the suspicion of having been drinking may have come from the officer himself.
Is it reasonable? I don't know, I wasn't there. You ask me to get off the fence, I can't sorry. I don't have all the facts, nor does anyone else, so no one can comment.
IF thats all there was, an off hand remark by someone who had not spoken, or seen the captain, then no I don't think it was reasonable. But then, there may be more to this, until we know one way or the other then slating the pax is doing the same thing you are accusing him of.
5. Yes there is a comparison, the informant does not KNOW a crime is being committed, he thinks it is. Same principle applies. The burglar may turn out to be a window cleaner. Think it doesn't happen? Yes it does, often.
6. Is that the same question as number 3?
You say, rightly I know no more than you do about this. I have pointed out that there is a narrow view of the incidnet being put across. There is an altenative view depending on what actualy happned.
In the case of cars ..involved in an accident or a moving traffic offence.
In the case of aviation. Involved in an accident.
In both cases there does not have to be any suspicision of drink.
There obviously wasn't an accident, but the suspicion of having been drinking may have come from the officer himself.
Is it reasonable? I don't know, I wasn't there. You ask me to get off the fence, I can't sorry. I don't have all the facts, nor does anyone else, so no one can comment.
IF thats all there was, an off hand remark by someone who had not spoken, or seen the captain, then no I don't think it was reasonable. But then, there may be more to this, until we know one way or the other then slating the pax is doing the same thing you are accusing him of.
5. Yes there is a comparison, the informant does not KNOW a crime is being committed, he thinks it is. Same principle applies. The burglar may turn out to be a window cleaner. Think it doesn't happen? Yes it does, often.
6. Is that the same question as number 3?
You say, rightly I know no more than you do about this. I have pointed out that there is a narrow view of the incidnet being put across. There is an altenative view depending on what actualy happned.