LHR Incident 24/10/04 2025z ??? (or how not to jump into journo mode)
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LHR Incident tonight 2025z ???
What has just happened at LHR?
Seems to have been a lot of panic and hot air on 118.5 with the controller calling out "we have lost 27R all hold positions".
Controller had a lot of fear in his voice in dealing with a close prox of a "Air Malta" and "Speedbird" asking them both to immediate right turn and "climb climb". I have never heard anything like it.
BA B777 forced go around whilst attempting to land 27L at the same time.
Down to single runway ops 27R only at some stage then controller asking a/c to visiually switch to 27L.
Did the distant storm tracking to the NW have anything to do with it? ATIS reporting gusting 26-40kts with windshear reported on short finals.
What on earth was going on, sounded like chaos.
Seems to have been a lot of panic and hot air on 118.5 with the controller calling out "we have lost 27R all hold positions".
Controller had a lot of fear in his voice in dealing with a close prox of a "Air Malta" and "Speedbird" asking them both to immediate right turn and "climb climb". I have never heard anything like it.
BA B777 forced go around whilst attempting to land 27L at the same time.
Down to single runway ops 27R only at some stage then controller asking a/c to visiually switch to 27L.
Did the distant storm tracking to the NW have anything to do with it? ATIS reporting gusting 26-40kts with windshear reported on short finals.
What on earth was going on, sounded like chaos.
, after holding for 25 mins around Southend, then needs to refuel to return to LHR
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Actually, I was that controller......
There was no panic in my voice at all. Its called taking control of the RT and adopting a tone that informs pilots that they are to listen very carefully to what I am telling them because its important. There is no such thing as "hot air" in ATC
Crews were asked to hold position and maintain a degree of silence so that I could cope with arranging a radar heading for the Air Malta that was sat on the runway. This is necessary in order to visually switch traffic from the other approach. Putting an aircraft into the air that will conflict with other aircraft that are carrying out missed approaches is sometimes a necessary step in order to minimise the number of missed approaches from the other runway. The need for radio silence allows me to make phone calls and arrangements with the arrivals controller as to how we will proceed with this particular scenario and informs crews that a request for "number in sequence" will not be appreciated at this time. My respect goes out to all the crews who did exactly what I asked and allowed me to expeditiously accept traffic from the other runway. Anybody who saw it will agree that we were in a position to land on 27R within 60 secs..... Not bad considering!!!
Also, your tendency to over egg the facts disturbs me, particularly as you do not have access to all the information. The Air Malta and the Speedbird were never in close proximity. The closest they came to each other was at least 7 miles (well beyond the required sep standards). The good rate of climb was asked for so that 3000ft could be cleared rapidly on the outbound and allow for greater flexibility in the event of further missed approaches. In ATC this is a procedure known as "not dropping the arrivals guy in the $#1T". The crew were more than happy to accept the good rate of climb. The Air Malta tracked north westerly for approx 7 miles and then turned back towards the MID SID well clear of any other traffic.
Traffic is always switched back to the nominated landing runway as soon as possible when the runway is available for us. There are two main reasons for this:
1) We have a legally binding agreement to strictly adhere to runway alternation patterns
2) We can resume departing traffic on the other runway as soon as physically possible (Again a fact that I'm sure the quiet people in the holding area appreciated)
There was no drama. Nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing unsafe. No losses of separation. Nobody was seconds from disaster. I would suggest that you don't post rash and inflamatory comments on subjects that you know very little about and I strongly resent accusations of panic!!
My thanks go out to all my colleagues at work, our bretheren at TC and the crews who have had to endure a challenging day today. Respect!!
There was no panic in my voice at all. Its called taking control of the RT and adopting a tone that informs pilots that they are to listen very carefully to what I am telling them because its important. There is no such thing as "hot air" in ATC
Crews were asked to hold position and maintain a degree of silence so that I could cope with arranging a radar heading for the Air Malta that was sat on the runway. This is necessary in order to visually switch traffic from the other approach. Putting an aircraft into the air that will conflict with other aircraft that are carrying out missed approaches is sometimes a necessary step in order to minimise the number of missed approaches from the other runway. The need for radio silence allows me to make phone calls and arrangements with the arrivals controller as to how we will proceed with this particular scenario and informs crews that a request for "number in sequence" will not be appreciated at this time. My respect goes out to all the crews who did exactly what I asked and allowed me to expeditiously accept traffic from the other runway. Anybody who saw it will agree that we were in a position to land on 27R within 60 secs..... Not bad considering!!!
Also, your tendency to over egg the facts disturbs me, particularly as you do not have access to all the information. The Air Malta and the Speedbird were never in close proximity. The closest they came to each other was at least 7 miles (well beyond the required sep standards). The good rate of climb was asked for so that 3000ft could be cleared rapidly on the outbound and allow for greater flexibility in the event of further missed approaches. In ATC this is a procedure known as "not dropping the arrivals guy in the $#1T". The crew were more than happy to accept the good rate of climb. The Air Malta tracked north westerly for approx 7 miles and then turned back towards the MID SID well clear of any other traffic.
Traffic is always switched back to the nominated landing runway as soon as possible when the runway is available for us. There are two main reasons for this:
1) We have a legally binding agreement to strictly adhere to runway alternation patterns
2) We can resume departing traffic on the other runway as soon as physically possible (Again a fact that I'm sure the quiet people in the holding area appreciated)
There was no drama. Nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing unsafe. No losses of separation. Nobody was seconds from disaster. I would suggest that you don't post rash and inflamatory comments on subjects that you know very little about and I strongly resent accusations of panic!!
My thanks go out to all my colleagues at work, our bretheren at TC and the crews who have had to endure a challenging day today. Respect!!
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Many posts on pprune float aimlessly to earth, like a fart in a trance... others, now, they land on the server with a very satisfying THUMP!
Halo isn't slipping - Post of the Week, right there.
(last time I checked my halo it was stamped 'Made in Taiwan'...)
R1
Halo isn't slipping - Post of the Week, right there.
(last time I checked my halo it was stamped 'Made in Taiwan'...)
R1
CATIII Dual
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Congrats to London Heathrow ATC
Congrats to everybody involved in LHR ATC this evening.
Excellent Job done in all respects and high level of professional conduct and behaviour observed.
...Continue the good job!!!
Hellas Jet Flyer
Excellent Job done in all respects and high level of professional conduct and behaviour observed.
...Continue the good job!!!
Hellas Jet Flyer
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Halo
Well said. More power to your elbow, mike switch and airwaves lip-flutter.
I'm always plaesed to hear from an ATC pro giving his side of the story. I readily admit that you ATCO's live in a 4th dimensional world that's wholly different from the sometimes insular and parochial sphere of the paranoid pilot.
Well said. More power to your elbow, mike switch and airwaves lip-flutter.
I'm always plaesed to hear from an ATC pro giving his side of the story. I readily admit that you ATCO's live in a 4th dimensional world that's wholly different from the sometimes insular and parochial sphere of the paranoid pilot.
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From a flying career sample of a few hundred ATC setups, LHR is the best I've experienced by a noticeably big margin.
Well done, halo, a fascinating insight into the level of skill I've regularly enjoyed (and I do mean enjoyed -- it's often made me smile) from ATC at LHR.
Well done, halo, a fascinating insight into the level of skill I've regularly enjoyed (and I do mean enjoyed -- it's often made me smile) from ATC at LHR.
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Well snuffed out, Halo. Respect, Man.
For those that havn't got a flippin' clue: It was a difficult day yesterday, everybody rallied round on all sides under testing conditions. We had Maydays and Pans on our side of the A4. Even Tinpot was difficult.
Nice working with you on the landline, Halo, lets bend some notes together one day......
For those that havn't got a flippin' clue: It was a difficult day yesterday, everybody rallied round on all sides under testing conditions. We had Maydays and Pans on our side of the A4. Even Tinpot was difficult.
Nice working with you on the landline, Halo, lets bend some notes together one day......
I am a figment of my own imagination
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A response on the thread that would seem to have mirrored the initial event. Clear, concise, immediate, and problem solved. Halo a nice one
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OK, so we have established that Halo and Crew did a fantastic job, however still nobody has mentioned what caused the problems in the first place, I asked before if it was WX related but got no replies, anyone shed any light ????
Cheers
MoM
Cheers
MoM
thanks