Those "bloody" slow 767's on international long-haul!
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Those "bloody" slow 767's on international long-haul!
Yes, I know they are somewhat more fuel efficient, but hell, they bloody well should be, they cost us and countless others in the 747's heaps of fuel having to stay low, or having to slow down to something less than MRC, which causes AOA's to go to high and make us use more fuel.. .I've been doing the MiddleEast to SE Asia route a lot lately, and seem to 'run into' one on just about every flight!. .And you know that the Indian ATC will not do anything constructive to try and fix the problem, that's been the case for many years.. .I constantly hear multiple aircraft being slowed or not allowed to climb to use their most fuel efficient cruise altitude, because there is ONE 767 cruising at M.80, or, if they really speed up, to M.82, this is rubbish!. .We have to continually cart extra fuel to allow for these 'road-blocks', yet the offending 767 usually say to ATC that they need to stay 'in the way' because they need to maintain LRC to make their destination - what about us?. .This problem is not only confined to this route, of course, but with the Indian ATC 'system', it will continue to be a problem.. .The other day, we were at the holding point, prior to t/o, right behind a 767, going out on the same airway, and on the same route clearance as us, so we requested priority ahead for t/o, to get ahead, even though the 767 has a significantly better climb performance, because, in part, because we have to carry that extra fuel, and the ATC did not really understand what we were on about, thought we were just trying to simply 'get ahead' for the sake of it!. .As the old saying goes, it's hard to fly with the eagles when you have to deal with turkeys! (or something!). .comments?. .Cheers.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Middle East / UK
Age: 45
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The B767 cant go much faster than M0.82. It is almost barber pole. So do you want them to fly on the overspeed?? If you know they are there allow for the lower level, and/or the lower speed, and carry extra fuel!! Oh, and GET A LIFE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
Join Date: Dec 2000
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This is life! Someone is faster and someone is slower.. .For me .78 is normal so I'm irritated when stuck behind a 146. But that's the way it is. Sometimes you can get around it, other times you'll just have to live with it.. .. .Surely you can't suggest that everyone should get 747's? Maybe it's your aircraft that is too fast for the altitude you're flying at?. .Don't get me wrong, my company has 747 and I like them.. .What do you suggest we do about it?. .. .BTW, Stop calling me Shirly! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I think a few of you missed the point.. .. .Would'nt it be nice if flights were planned so 76's & 74's could be assigned different flight levels throughout the route. The 74's can speed along at bat out of hell pace without caring the extra fuel to allow for other slower acft and 76's can dawdle along at their own pace taking in the scenery.. .. .Would'nt it be nice.......... .Not gonna happen though!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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Flight Detent,. .. .On behalf of the B767 community I offer our profound apologies for inconveniencing you so terribly. I only wish we could all fly the “BIG, FAST and HARD” wonderjet that you so eloquently describe – I bet the girls just love you. No need to buy a Porche I suppose ?. .. .As a matter of interest, I spent 2 hours stuck below your BIG BEAST least night waiting to get climb to FL410 because some lard arsed 747 was “too heavy” to climb above FL330 and the speed difference (us .82 him .85) did not give 10 minutes seperation in Indian airspace. Unlike you, I chose to sit back, relax and enjoy the flight – it’s not my fuel and at least the B767 can carry loads extra.. .. .Finally, on the subject of fuel – if you ever mature enough to get into the LHS you may well have to make some strategic fuel decisions. Until then I respectfully suggest you keep your THROBBING MONSTER stories for Tracey behind the bar in the Six Bells.. .. .Cheers, Eicas. (“Captain Eicas” to the likes of you.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Why Not ? The Concorde is running short of fuel again and poor old FD is stuck in a holding pattern having another cup of coffee and making $3 a minute. Just shows us again how unfair life is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
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Before I go I thought I'd try a little experiment....... .. .Eff Oh states the B767 barbers pole is "close to .82". So here we go...... .. .The MMO of a B767 is .86. .. .Christ, Flight Detent definately has something here - my little member has just grown 2 whole inches. Thanks FD.. .. .Cheers, Eicas.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Isn't lifa fabulously simple? The overtaking aircraft has to give way.. .. .So what can you do?. .1) descent to a lower level. .2) climb to a higher level. .3) try to arrange a new route.. .. .The last option is certainly the best one. It gives you something to do on these long long loooong flights. Take out the charts, discuss all the options with the entire crew, write down the airway numbers, check the notams if these routes are open, decide on the best one and start bargaining with ATC.. .Have fun. .Sq