Ryanair and BALPA/IALPA
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good point
nighthopper,a few good points there.but as someone who now works in fr,we have now no choice left to us but to join and strive for union recognition,the reasons.
when we retire,we have no pension plan - what to live on then?
We will have no loss of licence.well you can say go get it somewhere else.it was part of our working agreement.
we pay for our uniforms - not my choice to wear the uniform,i would prefer slacks and a shirt,so why pay for it.
we pay for our transport to and from the sim. and accomodation while there.
we can be dismissed at the drop of a pin.
we cannot negotiate anything or even complain if hard done by.
we are threatened with paying for our sim recurrency,twice a year when the state requires but one check a year.
we pay for our own medical checks and do them on our day off.
all other conditions are gradually being eroded.
why do we do this to fund the low fares that people like your good self enjoy,might be a little unfair.i have no problem with cheap flights but not at the expense of my family.
should you have an alternative to the union,i am all ears.
when we retire,we have no pension plan - what to live on then?
We will have no loss of licence.well you can say go get it somewhere else.it was part of our working agreement.
we pay for our uniforms - not my choice to wear the uniform,i would prefer slacks and a shirt,so why pay for it.
we pay for our transport to and from the sim. and accomodation while there.
we can be dismissed at the drop of a pin.
we cannot negotiate anything or even complain if hard done by.
we are threatened with paying for our sim recurrency,twice a year when the state requires but one check a year.
we pay for our own medical checks and do them on our day off.
all other conditions are gradually being eroded.
why do we do this to fund the low fares that people like your good self enjoy,might be a little unfair.i have no problem with cheap flights but not at the expense of my family.
should you have an alternative to the union,i am all ears.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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That'd be this Guardian article.
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Join Date: Sep 2000
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MOL often compares his airline to the original LCC, Southwest.
It may surpirise some to learn that Southwest is THE MOST UNIONISED airline in the US.
MOL will waste precious millions attempting to subtly deny the opportunity for his pilots to unionise.
Bullies only rule through fear. Once the fear is gone, so will he be.
THIS, IMO, is why he's so terrified of the FR pilots.
If you don't hang together you will surely be hung seperately (as a famous founding father once said).
dd
It may surpirise some to learn that Southwest is THE MOST UNIONISED airline in the US.
MOL will waste precious millions attempting to subtly deny the opportunity for his pilots to unionise.
Bullies only rule through fear. Once the fear is gone, so will he be.
THIS, IMO, is why he's so terrified of the FR pilots.
If you don't hang together you will surely be hung seperately (as a famous founding father once said).
dd
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southwest
the comparison between ryanair and southwest is just that they are both lcc's.thats where it ends.
to quote dave o'brien from our recent management briefing sessions,"we are nothing like southwest,i have been over there on a few occasions and they are typical looney americans,having ticker tape parties through the office and hugging each other".
Edited in line with the above guidelines. Admin.
to quote dave o'brien from our recent management briefing sessions,"we are nothing like southwest,i have been over there on a few occasions and they are typical looney americans,having ticker tape parties through the office and hugging each other".
Edited in line with the above guidelines. Admin.
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I wonder if anyone from Southwest has visited Ryanair to see how they have managed to achieve lower break even load factors and higher operating ratios? Maybe through using larger aircraft and with denser seating with less spent on selling tickets and more revenue through ancillary services? Mind you I'm not sure if M O'L's customer service ideas would go down well in the US!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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on MOL...
customers would have sued MOL in the US ages ago...
I like how DOB called the southwest people raving looney americans...
sure, like in Dublin we tend to keep things to a hate-hate relationship, and feel this breeds better employee satisfaction and performance...
atl;east ahtas how things appear to come over at the receiving end of the stick.
With the ITF chasing up MOL's heels, one wonders how much longer he's going to last before he cracks and takes the next step
I like how DOB called the southwest people raving looney americans...
sure, like in Dublin we tend to keep things to a hate-hate relationship, and feel this breeds better employee satisfaction and performance...
atl;east ahtas how things appear to come over at the receiving end of the stick.
With the ITF chasing up MOL's heels, one wonders how much longer he's going to last before he cracks and takes the next step
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Not sure how the low fares airline can call itself that... !
I've just picked a sample flight from Ireland to Spain for 4 adults.
three carriers - 1 European 2 Irish.
1 Irish fare = 735 all in
1 low cost Irish fare = 1223 all in
1 European Major = £ 684 GBP all in
So who's kidding who ???
Pull together people you're being ripped off along with 'unassuming' SLF and piggy in th middle is laughing all the way to th bank !
I've just picked a sample flight from Ireland to Spain for 4 adults.
three carriers - 1 European 2 Irish.
1 Irish fare = 735 all in
1 low cost Irish fare = 1223 all in
1 European Major = £ 684 GBP all in
So who's kidding who ???
Pull together people you're being ripped off along with 'unassuming' SLF and piggy in th middle is laughing all the way to th bank !
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thats just the point
TCS
Management in an airport will always try to cut back on things...the difference is in RYR if you dont like, leave.
someone got fired because they decided to question the new policy on no crew water onboard airplanes? too bad...take it or leave it.
If anyone mentions even considering blowing thigns at RYR out into the open they are shown the door. The company is know to even retrench cabin crew once they reach a certain service time because they then start costing the company too much.
this is not rumour. It is well known in the company as a fact.
Grant yourself lucky that in SWA you have the choice of going to union if you wish
Management in an airport will always try to cut back on things...the difference is in RYR if you dont like, leave.
someone got fired because they decided to question the new policy on no crew water onboard airplanes? too bad...take it or leave it.
If anyone mentions even considering blowing thigns at RYR out into the open they are shown the door. The company is know to even retrench cabin crew once they reach a certain service time because they then start costing the company too much.
this is not rumour. It is well known in the company as a fact.
Grant yourself lucky that in SWA you have the choice of going to union if you wish
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I have followed this and the other anti-Ryanair threads with great interest and what I cannot work out is, if things are so bad why are all these posters still working with Ryanair?.
I would have thought that if things are so bad you would have left and went to one of the competing airlines offering better terms and conditions and working life that seems so elusive.
Would in not be best to leave and get the better terms and condition you desire than stay when you are obviously so unhappy?.
I would have thought that if things are so bad you would have left and went to one of the competing airlines offering better terms and conditions and working life that seems so elusive.
Would in not be best to leave and get the better terms and condition you desire than stay when you are obviously so unhappy?.
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be a man
why not stay here and fight for the terms and conditions here.make a difference and not keep running.i think as pilots we have run away from the hard choices for too long now just to feather our own nests.this is the reason that we are in this mess now.do you think that all the other airlines are going to sit back and let fr be the only ones to ride roughshod over their staff.your turn will come in time if we don't fight your battle for you now.DO NOT BE UNDER ANY ILLUSIONS RUNWAY 31.YOUR DAY MAY COME AND IT IS NOT PLEASANTthis is not just about ryanair and balpa knows this,like we do here in the firing(pun) line.
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Don't forget the important issue of training bonds which force you to pay a large amount of money if you decide to go and work for a better employer. There are far fewer market forces in this industry than most people think. Some of which are positively ANTI-competitive.
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sergeblanco is spot on... Although other airlines may be construed by union forces at the moment, it may come to pass that they will soon realise that should ryanair be able to pull this off, they too can lower the bar...
if all the airlines offer the same low pay and conditions package where else can we possibly run to...
but it is definately not a bad question runway...and there are some guys who are packing up and jumping ship...
market forces are definately not as quick in aviation as people think they are with regards to staff...there are pilots in the market jumping for a job, there are others gladly looking around, but no one will take the risk of leaving a company in the hope of getting hired elsewhere. Seniority plays a big factor, as does the rate of hour building, possible future command opportunities...
and why should we be forced out by a bully from an airline we all effectively built for him. Sure he steered the ship, but we rowed the damned thing didnt we?
if all the airlines offer the same low pay and conditions package where else can we possibly run to...
but it is definately not a bad question runway...and there are some guys who are packing up and jumping ship...
market forces are definately not as quick in aviation as people think they are with regards to staff...there are pilots in the market jumping for a job, there are others gladly looking around, but no one will take the risk of leaving a company in the hope of getting hired elsewhere. Seniority plays a big factor, as does the rate of hour building, possible future command opportunities...
and why should we be forced out by a bully from an airline we all effectively built for him. Sure he steered the ship, but we rowed the damned thing didnt we?
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Greetings all.
I would like to make some points to all participating actively, and passively. We at Ryanair are at no illusion where we are. We have not just woken up to the success of the airline and desire more money, or more benefits. We all know we work for Ryanair, and not South West or BA, or Virgin, or any other airline in the world. Each has its unique issues and pros and cons.
We all were happy to join Ryanair, and work hard for a living ( 4sectors in and out of London, daily, training cadets is very tiring when you have to give a quality product to the customers, do a 25 minute turnaround, and train to the highest standard the new guys.) What we achieve at work goes above and beyond what MOL and his team gives us tools and policy for. I am not going to argue about underpayment, or not being valued enough, etc.
We pilots at Ryanair are fighting to keep our present terms and conditions from erroding. Everything around the world is becoming more expensive, and our salaries are going the wrong way.
I do not want to leave Ryanair because management are unable to find long term solutions to their cost model, and are destroying our tcs because that is all they can do. When the times were tough many years ago, we all agreed to a paycut when management told us we might have to see some of our colleagues go, but that was when we were fighting for survival.
Ryanair makes millions of Euros in cash every year, 250 millions last year, and about the same this year, and this is after tax. We have over 1 billion in cash which is airline wealth and not cash in hand for day to day operations. No one in Management has given anything back from their high salaries, or their high bonuses to say, look guys we are participating in a difficult period of cutbacks, and here is what we are also giving back. Ryanair does not need to cut back costs further to compete, they are already extremely low. They need to become more service oriented. In the mean time they are squeezing everyone out of the market, with artificial cost reductions, taking away things from its employees which are not priviledges, or benefits but the mere necesities. Having water onboard an aircraft is not an unnecessary cost, it is a legal requirement. Taking away our loss of licence, is not a benefit, it is a necessity. Our job has a six month validation period, and some of us have needed this money to help us fund something to do in between jobs when we have lost our licence thus our income generating capability.
We do not want to leave the airline just because the bosses cannot make their ambitious plans work. They are the ones buying 300 airplanes like as if they were coffee table. If their plans had worked, they would be billioners, but we would still be getting the same salaries. It was their choice to be where they are, so if they cannot make things work, and fill up airplanes with high yield pax, then they should reap the consequences of their missmanagement and close the door on the way out.
I would like to make some points to all participating actively, and passively. We at Ryanair are at no illusion where we are. We have not just woken up to the success of the airline and desire more money, or more benefits. We all know we work for Ryanair, and not South West or BA, or Virgin, or any other airline in the world. Each has its unique issues and pros and cons.
We all were happy to join Ryanair, and work hard for a living ( 4sectors in and out of London, daily, training cadets is very tiring when you have to give a quality product to the customers, do a 25 minute turnaround, and train to the highest standard the new guys.) What we achieve at work goes above and beyond what MOL and his team gives us tools and policy for. I am not going to argue about underpayment, or not being valued enough, etc.
We pilots at Ryanair are fighting to keep our present terms and conditions from erroding. Everything around the world is becoming more expensive, and our salaries are going the wrong way.
I do not want to leave Ryanair because management are unable to find long term solutions to their cost model, and are destroying our tcs because that is all they can do. When the times were tough many years ago, we all agreed to a paycut when management told us we might have to see some of our colleagues go, but that was when we were fighting for survival.
Ryanair makes millions of Euros in cash every year, 250 millions last year, and about the same this year, and this is after tax. We have over 1 billion in cash which is airline wealth and not cash in hand for day to day operations. No one in Management has given anything back from their high salaries, or their high bonuses to say, look guys we are participating in a difficult period of cutbacks, and here is what we are also giving back. Ryanair does not need to cut back costs further to compete, they are already extremely low. They need to become more service oriented. In the mean time they are squeezing everyone out of the market, with artificial cost reductions, taking away things from its employees which are not priviledges, or benefits but the mere necesities. Having water onboard an aircraft is not an unnecessary cost, it is a legal requirement. Taking away our loss of licence, is not a benefit, it is a necessity. Our job has a six month validation period, and some of us have needed this money to help us fund something to do in between jobs when we have lost our licence thus our income generating capability.
We do not want to leave the airline just because the bosses cannot make their ambitious plans work. They are the ones buying 300 airplanes like as if they were coffee table. If their plans had worked, they would be billioners, but we would still be getting the same salaries. It was their choice to be where they are, so if they cannot make things work, and fill up airplanes with high yield pax, then they should reap the consequences of their missmanagement and close the door on the way out.
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When someone resigns from RYR they are forced to sign a declaration stating they will never attempt to sue RYR for anything after leaving. If it's not signed, the chances are, you won't get paid..... bully tactics ???
Just a numbered other
Runway31,
Chickens and serge are spot on. There is no point in jumping out of the frying pan, and into the fire.
The appalling antics of MOL are being imitaded daily by his competitors, and it's only the union which will prevent the whole industry (LCCs) ending up the same.
It's not just FR that's at stake here. Go for it.
Chickens and serge are spot on. There is no point in jumping out of the frying pan, and into the fire.
The appalling antics of MOL are being imitaded daily by his competitors, and it's only the union which will prevent the whole industry (LCCs) ending up the same.
It's not just FR that's at stake here. Go for it.
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Just finished reading the "Ryanair" book by the Irish Times journalist. In it our CEO is quoted as saying that safety is the only thing that keeps him awake at night. Well , at Buzz Stansted what keeps a lot of us awake at night, is wondering whether we will have a job or not after you close us down !
Since February 2003, the Buzz pilots have faced over 18 months of threats and uncertainty over their future, Many times recently I have gone to work on an early after a sleepless night worrying about my family's financial security etc , coupled on occasions with the discovery in my pigeon hole of yet another letter from a certain manager at Stansted, containing material that is upsetting to say the least !
At present there are a lot of tired, unhappy and stressed pilots like myself at Buzz Stansted (and I suspect Ryanair too) When we joined, we were all put on one year's probation, during which time we could be given one week's notice. We have been told that "if" we are sucessful with our applications to Ryanair (after paying our £50 of course !) we will be on one year's probation again ! Thats two years of living under the threat of bieng shown the door with only a week's notice, additional stress we could all do without I'm sure.
PS
Two Captains at Buzz Stansted have had minor heart attacks in the last 12 months, *this is a fact *. Fortunately they have both made full recoveries and were not at work at the time.
Sweet dreams .......................
Since February 2003, the Buzz pilots have faced over 18 months of threats and uncertainty over their future, Many times recently I have gone to work on an early after a sleepless night worrying about my family's financial security etc , coupled on occasions with the discovery in my pigeon hole of yet another letter from a certain manager at Stansted, containing material that is upsetting to say the least !
At present there are a lot of tired, unhappy and stressed pilots like myself at Buzz Stansted (and I suspect Ryanair too) When we joined, we were all put on one year's probation, during which time we could be given one week's notice. We have been told that "if" we are sucessful with our applications to Ryanair (after paying our £50 of course !) we will be on one year's probation again ! Thats two years of living under the threat of bieng shown the door with only a week's notice, additional stress we could all do without I'm sure.
PS
Two Captains at Buzz Stansted have had minor heart attacks in the last 12 months, *this is a fact *. Fortunately they have both made full recoveries and were not at work at the time.
Sweet dreams .......................
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2infinity, you're absolutely right. Squeezing and squeezing will only bring defeat to MOL and his band just because there's a point below which you fight for your life and your family's life and you want the other side to pass away before you do yourself.
There used to be a time, in some -European-countries, when the richest who used to make even more and more money on their servants' backs got their heads chopped off for that. In public. This is to show, in general terms, how a tense situation cannot naturally go on for ever.
For a situation to go on for ever, you need equilibrium, win-win and desire from all to keep going.
That is absolutely not the case at FR at the moment !!!
There used to be a time, in some -European-countries, when the richest who used to make even more and more money on their servants' backs got their heads chopped off for that. In public. This is to show, in general terms, how a tense situation cannot naturally go on for ever.
For a situation to go on for ever, you need equilibrium, win-win and desire from all to keep going.
That is absolutely not the case at FR at the moment !!!
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FRying....
Its interesting...
As is common belief, MOL thinks he can pull these antics and get away with it, anticipating scores of pilots to leave only to be replaced with cheaper, less experienced crew who are willing to take the brunt, in some cases perhaps because they can't get in anywhere else.
but this cant keep going on forever...the point of scarcity is near, and soon the company will find themselves, as will many others, with expansion plans unable to be met by the lack in supply of crews.
the market will show recessive growth again, and those companies with the most eggs in their baskets will falter.
its not that hard to forsee
if anyone in the airline business is reading this (and most of us can already guess one individual), wake up and use the brains that got you your job...
stability in this market is of utmost importance...lack of it leads to iincidents and, heavan forbid, accidents...
stability includes proper workforce conditions...
As is common belief, MOL thinks he can pull these antics and get away with it, anticipating scores of pilots to leave only to be replaced with cheaper, less experienced crew who are willing to take the brunt, in some cases perhaps because they can't get in anywhere else.
but this cant keep going on forever...the point of scarcity is near, and soon the company will find themselves, as will many others, with expansion plans unable to be met by the lack in supply of crews.
the market will show recessive growth again, and those companies with the most eggs in their baskets will falter.
its not that hard to forsee
if anyone in the airline business is reading this (and most of us can already guess one individual), wake up and use the brains that got you your job...
stability in this market is of utmost importance...lack of it leads to iincidents and, heavan forbid, accidents...
stability includes proper workforce conditions...