Two Russian pax a/c crashed within minutes of each other
Even if investigations over there conclude that terrorists were the cause, let's hope that the criminals are caught, and that the Western media, somehow, avoids splashing any graphic images all over the tv screens. This took place for weeks after 9/11, and the airport channels could not be changed!
Many people might still be frightened sheep regarding air travel. Let's hope, for the sake of many thousands of jobs 'on the line', that nothing multiplies the anxieties.
Many people might still be frightened sheep regarding air travel. Let's hope, for the sake of many thousands of jobs 'on the line', that nothing multiplies the anxieties.
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Once again confusion reigns. So far this morning I have heard.
"both airplanes made a hijack distress signal"
"one airplane made a hijack distress signal"
"both planes made a hijack or some kind of other distress signal"
Anybody have any ATC news confirming what the Russian pilot(s) were squaking prior to going down? or is this more nonsense from our wonderful media?
"both airplanes made a hijack distress signal"
"one airplane made a hijack distress signal"
"both planes made a hijack or some kind of other distress signal"
Anybody have any ATC news confirming what the Russian pilot(s) were squaking prior to going down? or is this more nonsense from our wonderful media?
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BBC news said this morning one A/C had sent out a "hijack alert" and the newsman described it as an "airbourne SOS". I presume that one of the pilots had managed to squwark 7500. Thats all that i can add really, except to say that if it is the Chechens, i hope this doesn't affect other nations aviation industries, as this is a particularly unfortunate russian problem.
Sad day.
Sad day.
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Anybody have any ATC news confirming what the Russian pilot(s) were squaking prior to going down? or is this more nonsense from our wonderful media?
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10:44, Moscow time
Siberia Airlines official statement
According to updated information from Head of the Military Sector of the Main Center of the Russian Unified System of Air Traffic Control, the hijacking alarm which was received last night came from the TU-154 plane of Siberia Airlines. It happened just before the loss of contact with the plane and its disappearance from the radar screens.
As it has been reported, last night the air company's Flight Control Center received a telegram with information about the alarm sent from one of the missing planes and a request for additional security measures.
Siberia Airlines official statement
According to updated information from Head of the Military Sector of the Main Center of the Russian Unified System of Air Traffic Control, the hijacking alarm which was received last night came from the TU-154 plane of Siberia Airlines. It happened just before the loss of contact with the plane and its disappearance from the radar screens.
As it has been reported, last night the air company's Flight Control Center received a telegram with information about the alarm sent from one of the missing planes and a request for additional security measures.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum
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Russian news report:
http://www.gazeta.ru/2004/08/25/oa_131251.shtml
with summary in English:
http://www.gazeta.ru/2004/08/25/oa_131252.shtml
Report in Russian states (and please bear with my translation) that officials do not confirm that there was an act of terrorism, but indirect attributes speak about it. Representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs say they are already taking measures to increase security at many Russian airports, railway stations, sea and river ports. The TU154 had been in service since 1982, had 30751 hours and was last serviced this month. Less info about the TU134 although the airline state it was one of the best in the fleet. The local authorities in Rostov are preparing to accommode the families of victims. There are also links to the names of those who died (although Sibir have already made a change to the list because of confusion over a transit passenger at Moscow). RIP.
http://www.gazeta.ru/2004/08/25/oa_131251.shtml
with summary in English:
http://www.gazeta.ru/2004/08/25/oa_131252.shtml
Report in Russian states (and please bear with my translation) that officials do not confirm that there was an act of terrorism, but indirect attributes speak about it. Representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs say they are already taking measures to increase security at many Russian airports, railway stations, sea and river ports. The TU154 had been in service since 1982, had 30751 hours and was last serviced this month. Less info about the TU134 although the airline state it was one of the best in the fleet. The local authorities in Rostov are preparing to accommode the families of victims. There are also links to the names of those who died (although Sibir have already made a change to the list because of confusion over a transit passenger at Moscow). RIP.
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They took off at the same time, went down at about the same time, but the crash sites are 500 miles apart. Any explanations/guesses?
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So far from the info we have I would go along with them both being terrorist attacks. It's too much of a coincidence surely, plus there was that "hijack" alert from the 154.
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Chronology/Locations
This is the BBC Timeline of the incident:
Domodedovo Airport
1735: A Sibir Airlines Tu-134 bound for Volgograd departs
1815: A Volga-Aviaexpress Tu-154 leaves for Sochi
1856: Contact lost with Tu-154 (41 mins after t/o)
1859: Contact lost with Tu-134 (1 hr 24 mins after t/o)
Tula region Wreckage from Tu-134 found near the village of Buchalki soon after contact is lost - 125 Miles from Moscow - in 1 hr 24 min
Rostov-on-Don: Wreckage from Tu-154 found - 600 miles from Moscow. - in 41 min....
Either this chronology is wrong...or something else is up
Domodedovo Airport
1735: A Sibir Airlines Tu-134 bound for Volgograd departs
1815: A Volga-Aviaexpress Tu-154 leaves for Sochi
1856: Contact lost with Tu-154 (41 mins after t/o)
1859: Contact lost with Tu-134 (1 hr 24 mins after t/o)
Tula region Wreckage from Tu-134 found near the village of Buchalki soon after contact is lost - 125 Miles from Moscow - in 1 hr 24 min
Rostov-on-Don: Wreckage from Tu-154 found - 600 miles from Moscow. - in 41 min....
Either this chronology is wrong...or something else is up
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I read the post that said
"Both planes left Moscow's Domodedovo Airport about 10:30 p.m." The reporting moved on, and now I know different but why don't you save your sarcasm for something worth while Abird747?
"Both planes left Moscow's Domodedovo Airport about 10:30 p.m." The reporting moved on, and now I know different but why don't you save your sarcasm for something worth while Abird747?
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Some picture from german ´stern´ online news :
Only new information on that site is that the 154 should have broken up in midair before crashing.
my feelings are with the cictims.
Only new information on that site is that the 154 should have broken up in midair before crashing.
my feelings are with the cictims.
I've always found current Russian airport security to be the equal of that in the west; going through there again this weekend and have no qualms. In fact, it doesn't suffer from the American concern about politically correctness and just intensive searching 1 in every n pax even if they're old ladies; in Russia they go through whoever they please. I presume there are certain social groupings that get checked over every time. So be it.
The 134 in question, for those discussing aircraft age, was built in 1977. Bear in mind that Russian aircraft do nothing like the hours of those in the west. The fairly intact panel in the picture above with the registration on it is the (appears to be port) engine cowling.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/604674/M/
Thoughts with the families of those involved.
The 134 in question, for those discussing aircraft age, was built in 1977. Bear in mind that Russian aircraft do nothing like the hours of those in the west. The fairly intact panel in the picture above with the registration on it is the (appears to be port) engine cowling.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/604674/M/
Thoughts with the families of those involved.
Only new information on that site is that the 154 should have broken up in midair before crashing.
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Chechens not responsible for Russia crashes says aide
Wed 25 August, 2004 14:14
LONDON (Reuters) - A London-based spokesman for the leader of Chechnya's main rebel group says it is not responsible for near-simultaneous air crashes in Russia which killed 89 people.
Asked if his group was responsible for the crashes, Akhmed Zakayev, a spokesman for Chechnya's separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov, told Reuters in London: "Of course not."
"To us any form of terrorism is absolutely unacceptable. We have condemned it and continue to condemn it," he said...
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...9§ion=news
__________________________________________
...President Vladimir Putin, vacationing in Sochi, ordered the FSB security service to investigate the crashes ahead of Sunday's presidential election in Chechnya. Rebel separatists have threatened to disrupt the poll with violence.
"The main line of inquiry we are following is violation of the rules of operating civil aircraft," FSB spokesman Sergei Ignatchenko said.
Ignatchenko said this meant pilot error, mechanical defects or problems with fuel quality -- prime suspects in Russia, where pilots are poorly paid and planes often old.
"We are also examining the possibility of a terrorist act, but we have no evidence to support this."...
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...8§ion=news
Wed 25 August, 2004 14:14
LONDON (Reuters) - A London-based spokesman for the leader of Chechnya's main rebel group says it is not responsible for near-simultaneous air crashes in Russia which killed 89 people.
Asked if his group was responsible for the crashes, Akhmed Zakayev, a spokesman for Chechnya's separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov, told Reuters in London: "Of course not."
"To us any form of terrorism is absolutely unacceptable. We have condemned it and continue to condemn it," he said...
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...9§ion=news
__________________________________________
...President Vladimir Putin, vacationing in Sochi, ordered the FSB security service to investigate the crashes ahead of Sunday's presidential election in Chechnya. Rebel separatists have threatened to disrupt the poll with violence.
"The main line of inquiry we are following is violation of the rules of operating civil aircraft," FSB spokesman Sergei Ignatchenko said.
Ignatchenko said this meant pilot error, mechanical defects or problems with fuel quality -- prime suspects in Russia, where pilots are poorly paid and planes often old.
"We are also examining the possibility of a terrorist act, but we have no evidence to support this."...
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...8§ion=news
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Come on here. Lets look at the odds. They both left same airport and crash within minutes of each other even though they left 40 minutes apart. I would like to think fuel quality, but there is just too much that points to sabotage. 
Union Goon
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from Itchy Kitchum
Nope its not. Its a problem for ALL aviation and it is VERY naive to think otherwise. A few determined lunatics acting in concert can do this anywhere, and every country on earth has a few lunactics who can't get what they want at the polls or are just imbalanced/indoctrinated and in their certainty that they are right will resort to other means.
Don't dismiss it because it only happened so far in Russia or the USA or Israel or Pakistan, or the planet Mars or somewhere else that you feel superior to. Attempts have been made in Europe and Asia to do similar things. That they were foiled was due as much to luck as anything else.
FOCAL,
Unfortunately I agree with you. Fuel contamination would be most likely at a similar time after take off. Not similar time on the clock.
I hope all the crews and pax rest easy.
Cheers
Wino
i hope this doesn't affect other nations aviation industries, as this is a particularly unfortunate russian problem.
Don't dismiss it because it only happened so far in Russia or the USA or Israel or Pakistan, or the planet Mars or somewhere else that you feel superior to. Attempts have been made in Europe and Asia to do similar things. That they were foiled was due as much to luck as anything else.
FOCAL,
Unfortunately I agree with you. Fuel contamination would be most likely at a similar time after take off. Not similar time on the clock.
I hope all the crews and pax rest easy.
Cheers
Wino