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Americans add more petty and useless regulations.

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Americans add more petty and useless regulations.

Old 30th Jun 2004, 15:37
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Americans add more petty and useless regulations.

The United States authorities are implementing a process which requires the passport and visa information of all crew likely to operate to, from or over the United States to be provided to them in a 'Master Crew List' (MCL) This information must not be changed within 48 hours of operating to the USA.

So - no crew operate from standby , no flexibility for the company.

How dare they .
Who the heck do they think they are?

On a similar vein....
I pray that we start treating American visitors to Europe with as much disdain as they show our tourists.
( My wife's sister and young lad queued for 120 min's to pass immigration - after a 9 hr flight) . Who needs that?
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 15:40
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So if the Skipper goes sick a day before the flight gets cancelled, right?

Even the Yanks can't be that stupid!?
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 15:44
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Like a bet? I used to support the USA , having been over there around 35 times but now I'm beginning to think a little deeper . From what I have read on these hallowed pages and in the press (!) and seen from Iraq , I wonder just what we are dealing with here .
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 16:03
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Angry

IMHO visitors to the US are paying the price for the inability of the intelligence agencies to detect the 9/11 conspiracy in advance of the awful events of that day. Also, the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) is getting ever more powers, and now has the power of license suspension with the only right of appeal back to the TSA (according to AOPA US). Sad to see all this happening to a country I always used to enjoy visiting.
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 16:21
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TSA? T*ssers, S*itheads and A*seholes. And that's just the management.

Every time I read the next ridiculous edict from the Land of the Free I just laugh and thank the lord that my remit no longer involves dealing with those ignorant idiots any more.

Do they REALLY think that there is a credible threat from the crew?

If you can, vote with your feet. Don't go there, don't spend your money there, perhaps (or perhaps not) they might get the message.

BTW, Shuttleworth, good call, though you can bet your life that they'll be the first to kick up. Recently had to go through the new(ish) security check to get the gate 9 at LHR T3 (x-ray and arch + search) from the lounge areas. Couple in front of me complaining LOUDLY that they shouldn't need to be subjected to another search as they'd already been searched before. Guess what nationality - yup, you've got it, our Pilgrim friends
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 16:24
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Hi Shuttleworth,

You imply that the MCL will be flight specific but you donít state whether this is the case. It makes a big difference.

If not, then under the proposed system is it not possible just to add all flight crew to the MCL and as long as their Passport and Visa information does not change within 48 hours of operating in or over the US everything will be legal?

Cheers,
HaM
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 17:16
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Cool

Life is just so unfair...

Please, stay home, you'd be much happier.
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 17:28
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So basically, you are against providing of information in a timely manner to the American Authorities? I do not agree with the combining of Iraq, and the inablitiy for the CIA to detect 9/11 with a regulation regarding some advance notice of Who's flying the plane on a MCL. GROW UP!. Your supposed to be "professional's." Start acting like it. Calling Americans T*ssers, S*itheads and A*seholes and then spitting on the freedom that you take for granted day in and day out is sad. Very very sad. I would expect more from "proffessionals."
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 17:31
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What can I say? I have just been back to the United States of America for the first time in three years and, despite all the horror stories, I found all of the staff (I asume they were employed by TSA) at IAD were very courteous and even had a big sense of humour.

Inbound formalities were at a minimum as far as time-wasting was concerned. It took less than 45 minutes to get from the aircraft to the hire-car.
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 17:43
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from Kala

Also, the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) is getting ever more powers, and now has the power of license suspension with the only right of appeal back to the TSA
Actually that is way out of date. The threat of that was removed a couple of weeks ago.

Most of the tripe you read about America here on PPRUNE turns out to be untrue if you go and try it for yourself. But don't let facts get in the way of good old fashioned america bashing. Kinda reminds me of an Aesop's fable....


Cheers
Wino
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 18:00
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"American bashing"

Are you suggesting sir that i am either vietnamese or iraqi . Both quite accomplished american bashers.

Maybe i should rname my little fella, "GeorgeBush" instead of the bishop.Then i would get double the fun, every bash
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 18:01
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Ontariotech

I take it you don't have to go through US immigration. (The USofA is a country nearly entirely populated by immigrants anyway).

I think most of the problem is that US immigration is getting rediculous. My wife was coming to join me in Belize and they wouldn't let her catch her connecting flight in Miami because she had no return ticket! She was coming for 9 months from the UK to a commonweatlth country and not leaving the airport terminal - what business is it of the US government if she is using one way tickets since we didn't know my end of tour date (I was there with the British Army).

And lordy, try and get in on a Visa to learn to fly! I know that it is sensitive, but I was a British Army helicopter pilot, having spent time with US forces in Kosovo, Macedonia and Bosnia. was it really necessary to make me sit in a room for 2 hours while they phoned my flight school and asked if they had heard of me?

Was it Brazil who fingerprinted and photographed the US crew coming in, and look what response they got!

No-one is denying you your right to defend your borders, it just seems that every other country manages to do it without making you jump through hoops for hours.

(Sorry, I know that was slightly off the original topic)
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 18:24
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Am I missing something?

I have to have a D Visa to operate into USA, so why do they need yet another layer of Bureaucracy? This paranoia in the US is really getting beyond sensible bounds.

I also think that in the interests of fairness the EU should insist on reciprocal Visa requirements for US Crewmembers who operate into Europe.

And, by the way, it is a sign of healthy democracy to criticise, without being accused of being anti-American.
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 18:28
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Cool

Too Bad...Maybe you'll just have to stay home and deal with over inflated prices, lousy food, lousy service, congested roads, tiny houses....but extremely "courteous and efficient" immigration and airport service personnel and just watch the miserable tv whilst moaning about how great it is you're not all in the US...Have fun!
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 18:40
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Reminds me of the opening lines of the movie "Annie Hall" (1977):

There's an old joke. Uh, two elderly women are at a Catskills mountain resort, and one of 'em says: "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know, and such small portions."
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 18:41
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Robkey:

Rather than just whining and showing the usual contempt for any place other than the US, why don't you actually try to justify these stupid rules that are being enforced in the "Land of the Free"?

If these restrictions were imposed on your own US airlines, I'm sure you'd have something to say about it.
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 19:03
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>>If these restrictions were imposed on your own US airlines, I'm sure you'd have something to say about it.

Perhaps you don't fly much internationally, but in fact these restrictions are imposed on U.S. carriers. And yes we do moan and groan about it a little.
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 19:18
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longbefore 9/11 I had to get visa's to operate in and out of France.

Just treating the EU as equal states.

Cheers
Wino
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 19:53
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Wouldn't the airlines just put the backup/stand by pilots info on the list when they submit it to the authority? Otherwise the airline is getting completely screwed over this.
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Old 30th Jun 2004, 19:54
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Ropey - not off topic - Very good posting.
The American's are causing such hatred it's astonishing.
This is here ... imagine what the feeling is in Karachi, Riyadh or Indonesia!
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