SIA Jobs MkII
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SIA Jobs MkII
From what we've learned from the lifelong threads about SIA, I think there is more than enough reasons for not ever bother to apply for it, at least for time being.
For different reasons I got from some fellows the advice for not considering Asiana as well, unless your family is starving, of course.
For different reasons I got from some fellows the advice for not considering Asiana as well, unless your family is starving, of course.
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LOC GREEN YOU SAY THAT NEXT YEARS sERVICE INCREMENT WILL BE 5% and Profit 2-3 Months. As SIA have reneged on this years bonus even though there is supposed to be a formula in place how do you know that SIA will not unilaterally decide what they think fit to give us next year? They will use their usual spin of hard times ahead etc etc and cheat and steal from us as usual.
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locgreen
I must ask you to take counsell from gypsy who really does display a more worldly view of SIA management's Machiavellian modus than your naive view would lend credance to.
They are patently out to "renegotiate" the annual increment downwards and the bonus out of the window
I must ask you to take counsell from gypsy who really does display a more worldly view of SIA management's Machiavellian modus than your naive view would lend credance to.
They are patently out to "renegotiate" the annual increment downwards and the bonus out of the window
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The service increament and profit sharing agreement between SIA and ALPA-S will expire soon, so 5% is a dream figure.
Knowing the "management", the said agreement will be ram through quickly so that the new formula will probably net SIA pilot 2%, (with all the government's propaganda about economy slowdown, the need to belt-tightening etc.) if ALPA-S gets lucky.
As for working condition, there are quite a lot of positions open but not enough applicants. So the incumbents are consistently overworked and have their rosters changed all the times.
Now more local SFOs are sent for command training, which MdV hates, because the return on this investment will pay itself over a longer period of time than a direct hiring.
The management does not intent on being here for the long run, they will just milk the system for all the performance bonuses now and leave all the turd for the next shift.
Knowing the "management", the said agreement will be ram through quickly so that the new formula will probably net SIA pilot 2%, (with all the government's propaganda about economy slowdown, the need to belt-tightening etc.) if ALPA-S gets lucky.
As for working condition, there are quite a lot of positions open but not enough applicants. So the incumbents are consistently overworked and have their rosters changed all the times.
Now more local SFOs are sent for command training, which MdV hates, because the return on this investment will pay itself over a longer period of time than a direct hiring.
The management does not intent on being here for the long run, they will just milk the system for all the performance bonuses now and leave all the turd for the next shift.
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Hey, I spotted the latest ad in Flight recently, looks like SIA are telling porkies about the A310 allowances.$1300 overnight allowances, doing Jakarta and Male. Impossible, currently around $400 on a good month. I think the overnight allowance for JKT were around S$70 total on the late one. Me thinks you need loads to make an "average" of S$1300, its just not possible.
For those expats interested in the A310, be warned, its the bumb fleet, and lies about what you'll be promised after signing up are rife. Of course, once you've signed for 5++ years, they will do what the bloody hell they like with you, and mark my words, SIA have always screwed the A310 guys in the past.
B747-400 upgrades in two years, Ha,forget it.Dont forget about all those young crawling locals will be clambering all over you to be first "promoted". And as Singaporeans, of course, they will be.
For those expats interested in the A310, be warned, its the bumb fleet, and lies about what you'll be promised after signing up are rife. Of course, once you've signed for 5++ years, they will do what the bloody hell they like with you, and mark my words, SIA have always screwed the A310 guys in the past.
B747-400 upgrades in two years, Ha,forget it.Dont forget about all those young crawling locals will be clambering all over you to be first "promoted". And as Singaporeans, of course, they will be.
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Morse Code
Thank you for your note of 20 July 2001 - my apologies for this late reply.
Perhaps the posts subsequent to yours now answer the question that you posed? If I may say so, everything which gypsy writes is absolutely correct - I watch with continued interest but in vain, for present signs of a groundswell of popular contrary feeling or information. I also feel sure that you’ve noticed past sentiments similar to gypsy’s, expressed in respect of SIA, in literally hundreds of other postings over the past few months. The present flight ops “management” is nasty, dishonourable and untrustworthy. Please be warned.
As to the bonus and service increment, locgreen indicates what we could reasonably expect under the conditions of the present agreement. However, the Singapore Government, widely publicising its non-oil related export downturn figures, has paved the way over the past couple of months for downward salary/benefit negotiation leverage to be available to Singapore corporations. SQ will, needless to say, take full advantage of this Government “nod and wink” and will simply impose what it thinks will help maintain profits, dividends and their own bonuses at the expense of annual increments and bonuses of all employees, including the pilots. So yes, we may indeed find ourselves in a situation where the annual increments and bonuses (pilots’ that is) disappear “in the national interest”.
You might also like to consider that, for some reason, the flt ops training department is now taking an extremely hard line on acceptance checks and there have been a disproportionate number of failures during the initial sim assessments in Singapore. Similarly, there seems to be a rising trend of failures during the conversion courses plus failures of first base checks after release to line flying duties. The pilots in question have been subsequently fired and left in very poor financial situations!
So, if you are currently employed but feel that you want to join this vale of tears - please consider very very carefully before you go ahead. I think that you can divine our collective advice to you.
Very good luck to you - and if you do join, take gypsy’s advice and bring plenty of money - you’ll need it.
Thank you for your note of 20 July 2001 - my apologies for this late reply.
Perhaps the posts subsequent to yours now answer the question that you posed? If I may say so, everything which gypsy writes is absolutely correct - I watch with continued interest but in vain, for present signs of a groundswell of popular contrary feeling or information. I also feel sure that you’ve noticed past sentiments similar to gypsy’s, expressed in respect of SIA, in literally hundreds of other postings over the past few months. The present flight ops “management” is nasty, dishonourable and untrustworthy. Please be warned.
As to the bonus and service increment, locgreen indicates what we could reasonably expect under the conditions of the present agreement. However, the Singapore Government, widely publicising its non-oil related export downturn figures, has paved the way over the past couple of months for downward salary/benefit negotiation leverage to be available to Singapore corporations. SQ will, needless to say, take full advantage of this Government “nod and wink” and will simply impose what it thinks will help maintain profits, dividends and their own bonuses at the expense of annual increments and bonuses of all employees, including the pilots. So yes, we may indeed find ourselves in a situation where the annual increments and bonuses (pilots’ that is) disappear “in the national interest”.
You might also like to consider that, for some reason, the flt ops training department is now taking an extremely hard line on acceptance checks and there have been a disproportionate number of failures during the initial sim assessments in Singapore. Similarly, there seems to be a rising trend of failures during the conversion courses plus failures of first base checks after release to line flying duties. The pilots in question have been subsequently fired and left in very poor financial situations!
So, if you are currently employed but feel that you want to join this vale of tears - please consider very very carefully before you go ahead. I think that you can divine our collective advice to you.
Very good luck to you - and if you do join, take gypsy’s advice and bring plenty of money - you’ll need it.
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Pickard on the MI 185 thread reports:
SIA shifts suspect directors
By ERIC ELLIS
26 July 2001
SINGAPORE Airlines has made a subtle but telling power shift to its
board of directors that seems designed to assuage regulatory concerns
about its bid to win Air New Zealand and Ansett Airlines.
As criticism mounts about the connections between Singapore's government
and the island's premier companies, as they diversify into more rigorous
regulatory environments, three directors with close government links
have quietly resigned.
Gone from the SIA board are Moses Lee, the permanent secretary of
Singapore s Health Ministry, Major-General Raymund Ng, the recent former
head of Singapore's Air Force, and former head of Singapore's secret
police Tjong Yik Min.
Does this mean that Maurice de Vaz will stay longer with SIA, to wreak more havoc now that General Raymund Ng seems to have resigned?
SIA shifts suspect directors
By ERIC ELLIS
26 July 2001
SINGAPORE Airlines has made a subtle but telling power shift to its
board of directors that seems designed to assuage regulatory concerns
about its bid to win Air New Zealand and Ansett Airlines.
As criticism mounts about the connections between Singapore's government
and the island's premier companies, as they diversify into more rigorous
regulatory environments, three directors with close government links
have quietly resigned.
Gone from the SIA board are Moses Lee, the permanent secretary of
Singapore s Health Ministry, Major-General Raymund Ng, the recent former
head of Singapore's Air Force, and former head of Singapore's secret
police Tjong Yik Min.
Does this mean that Maurice de Vaz will stay longer with SIA, to wreak more havoc now that General Raymund Ng seems to have resigned?
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thegypsy....
Yes, management has played dirty tricks again with the "ex-gratia" component. However, you WILL receive at least 6.04 months when the dust settles, if not 6.26 which our rightful due. And we will have the further satisfaction of looking management straight in the eye, and heaping ridicule with our contemptous looks.
Burnoff, and the rest who are convinced we won't receive a bonus or increment next year...the numbers will speak for themselves next year. Watch this space...
[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: locgreen ]
[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: locgreen ]
Yes, management has played dirty tricks again with the "ex-gratia" component. However, you WILL receive at least 6.04 months when the dust settles, if not 6.26 which our rightful due. And we will have the further satisfaction of looking management straight in the eye, and heaping ridicule with our contemptous looks.
Burnoff, and the rest who are convinced we won't receive a bonus or increment next year...the numbers will speak for themselves next year. Watch this space...
[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: locgreen ]
[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: locgreen ]
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locgreen You say when the dust settles we will get 6.04 as against 6.26 which you say is our right,yet you seem happy that despite this contemptuous unilateral way that SIA have behaved that next year we will still get 2 to 3 months bonus. Do you really think this management gives a damn about the look of contempt you will show when you look into their eyes. I bet that they are really running scared at that prospect!!!
You are even more naive than I originally thought.
SIA are out to get bonus payments reduced to the bare minimum,just you wait and see.
All pilots considering joining should do their financial sums on the assumption that there will be no SERVICE INCREMENTS OR BONUS PAYMENTS.
This is because of the bad faith shown by SIA and also because the two new boys ie the 2 EX Generals have to show to the board that they can reduce Pilot costs and that is how their sucess will be judged.
So if you join BRING PLENTY OF MONEY WITH YOU>
You are even more naive than I originally thought.
SIA are out to get bonus payments reduced to the bare minimum,just you wait and see.
All pilots considering joining should do their financial sums on the assumption that there will be no SERVICE INCREMENTS OR BONUS PAYMENTS.
This is because of the bad faith shown by SIA and also because the two new boys ie the 2 EX Generals have to show to the board that they can reduce Pilot costs and that is how their sucess will be judged.
So if you join BRING PLENTY OF MONEY WITH YOU>
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thegypsy,
Don't forget the part about working the pilots harder !
If everyone flies more hours, less bodies will be needed hence more cost savings. Word on the street is that the next CA will focus on this issue.
As for bonus payment and service increment next year, if any, will be mediocre, especially if they get the go-ahead to increase the ANZ stake, much money will have be spent on refleeting AN and NZ. Which is why I think they are so adamant in renegating on the agreed bonus payment this year.
Insider,
The checks being more difficult has a direct relationship with SQ006.
Another mishap and you can flush the SIA brand down the toilet.
By then, we would probably be asked to take a pay-cut as the pax load nose-dive. Not to mention our own employability when the exodus begins, which should not be too far away now as KAL is finally clearing their training back-log.
And I suppose the longer the management drag their feet on the nonsensical ex-gratia business, the greater the exodus will be when the dust finally settles.
For new joiners, your pay during training would be around S$5,000+ (before tax), so keep your family at home and bring lots of cash. You may think that S$5K is a lot of money but in Singapore, it is like a drop in the ocean if you want to start a dwelling. I strongly suggest all applicants to make a trip to Singapore to judge for themselves before ptting pen on paper.
Don't forget the part about working the pilots harder !
If everyone flies more hours, less bodies will be needed hence more cost savings. Word on the street is that the next CA will focus on this issue.
As for bonus payment and service increment next year, if any, will be mediocre, especially if they get the go-ahead to increase the ANZ stake, much money will have be spent on refleeting AN and NZ. Which is why I think they are so adamant in renegating on the agreed bonus payment this year.
Insider,
The checks being more difficult has a direct relationship with SQ006.
Another mishap and you can flush the SIA brand down the toilet.
By then, we would probably be asked to take a pay-cut as the pax load nose-dive. Not to mention our own employability when the exodus begins, which should not be too far away now as KAL is finally clearing their training back-log.
And I suppose the longer the management drag their feet on the nonsensical ex-gratia business, the greater the exodus will be when the dust finally settles.
For new joiners, your pay during training would be around S$5,000+ (before tax), so keep your family at home and bring lots of cash. You may think that S$5K is a lot of money but in Singapore, it is like a drop in the ocean if you want to start a dwelling. I strongly suggest all applicants to make a trip to Singapore to judge for themselves before ptting pen on paper.
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A B767 buddy of mine has just completed and failed a B777 sim evaluation with SIA. He tells me there are no "sour grapes" but it was obvious that they were out to fail him right from the begining.
I tend to believe him, as I know that he's a very sound and experienced operator and has never failed a base check in his life.
He thinks there is something stranger than usual going on there especially as they are reputedly short of pilots.
Any clues? He has the impression its not an improvement of standards post SQ006.
I tend to believe him, as I know that he's a very sound and experienced operator and has never failed a base check in his life.
He thinks there is something stranger than usual going on there especially as they are reputedly short of pilots.
Any clues? He has the impression its not an improvement of standards post SQ006.
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Fail a few guys, usually in batches. This looks good to the DGCA, as though the company are trying to improve safety. Watched this happening with SQ in the late seventies, from time to time. SV did the same in the eighties, nothing new really.
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locgreen
I've been using a mirror and practicing my "looking management straight in the eye, and heaping ridicule with (my) contemptous looks".
When should I start doing this in earnest? Can I expect any concrete results from this tactic?
I've been using a mirror and practicing my "looking management straight in the eye, and heaping ridicule with (my) contemptous looks".
When should I start doing this in earnest? Can I expect any concrete results from this tactic?
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Buls**t a 310 Captain makes Meal Allowance of SGD 1300 a month....I thought SIA tells lies only to the people here in S'pore. I never knew that they can get the white lies advertised in the magazine like "Flight International" I disagree with you 'Sia sniffer' these days with so much pilot shortage on A310, a captain makes about SGD 500/month as Meal Allowance. There are many turn around flights which are done as charity flights and no meal allowance is paid for them. Remaining remarks of your agreed in toto........
How come SIA didn't advertised that you have to pay IT on the so called FREE privilede travel availed. So don't you think that any thing is free here. You got to pay even for the air you breath.
One reason for the recent frequent failures in acceptance checks, first base checks etc. is that SIA in despration of pilots have acuired bad raw material so final product had to be bad. At the moment you can have any kind of flying experience to qualify for SIA........of experience on Microsoft Simulator2000 should be excluded.
How come SIA didn't advertised that you have to pay IT on the so called FREE privilede travel availed. So don't you think that any thing is free here. You got to pay even for the air you breath.
One reason for the recent frequent failures in acceptance checks, first base checks etc. is that SIA in despration of pilots have acuired bad raw material so final product had to be bad. At the moment you can have any kind of flying experience to qualify for SIA........of experience on Microsoft Simulator2000 should be excluded.
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Another trick of SIA is for you to find on arrival at Singapore you are allocated to a different Aircraft type to that on which your job offer was made!! Beware the A310 which is lower pay and allowances and A340 both of which are dying fleets. Those on the B747-300 were only doing 30 hours a month and hardly any allowances during their last 18months before the fleet was disbanded.
Have you all got the message yet??? SIA are an untrustworthy bunch.
IF you join BRING LOADS OF MONEY WITH YOU!!
Have you all got the message yet??? SIA are an untrustworthy bunch.
IF you join BRING LOADS OF MONEY WITH YOU!!
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highcirrus...you ought to start using that look right away I flashed one such look at Doc Cheong, and he wilted...he's probably going to give us more than the 1.5 months ex-gratia...and you'll have to thank me for that. Time will tell.
I flashed one such look at Doc Cheong, and he wilted...he's probably going to give us more than the 1.5 months ex-gratia...and you'll have to thank me for that. Time will tell.
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thegypsy...
I don't want to take the gloss off your gloom and doom, but i find it amusing that you're going to be sitting on a fat wallet (at least 6.04 months worth's bonus, if not more...eventually), and yet you can only see the dark side of what goes on here. How many airlines in Europe, or the US, have as generous a profit sharing scheme as we do? You're not going to spring the "oh-it-pays-my-tax" spiel, are you? Your God-given right not to pay tax?
Things are not so good here...accepted, but could be far worse. And all this talk of an exodus of pilots out of here...now, or in the near future...is hot air.
I don't want to take the gloss off your gloom and doom, but i find it amusing that you're going to be sitting on a fat wallet (at least 6.04 months worth's bonus, if not more...eventually), and yet you can only see the dark side of what goes on here. How many airlines in Europe, or the US, have as generous a profit sharing scheme as we do? You're not going to spring the "oh-it-pays-my-tax" spiel, are you? Your God-given right not to pay tax?
Things are not so good here...accepted, but could be far worse. And all this talk of an exodus of pilots out of here...now, or in the near future...is hot air.
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Hey you guys out there, I read with interest on your bombardment of SIA. Problem is- I hope to get into SIA's cadet pilotship programme. To you guys, it may seem like another attempt to scout for suckers. But to a "sucker" like me, it's practically the calling of a lifetime! Please comment 
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sirsushi
Please bear in mind that you are reading the distilled thoughts of long time cynics, fire blackened and tempered by years in the crucible of an exploitive global civil aviation arena.
Of course in your situation it’s the calling of a lifetime and all you’re interested in is getting to grips with the aeroplanes and learning all the ATPL tech stuff – and I really don’t think anyone would criticise you for going right on ahead if you are offered a place by SIA. My colleagues and myself will be very happy to see you when you come on line and will most certainly help you advance your career in any way we can.
All I would ask you to consider is that when the gloss does wear off and you eventually realise that SIA pays very poorly on a world scale and similarly treats its pilots with an unconscionable amount of contempt, you will allow for old duffers like me to sound off on this forum, or through ALPA-S, about pay, conditions, bonds and bank guarantees in the hope of galvanising enough people that change, to your distinct future benefit, may eventually come about.
Perhaps if you have alternatives to the SIA cadet scheme you would be very well advised to seriously consider them.
Meanwhile, I wish you the very best of luck and good fortune in your endeavour.
Kind regards
Please bear in mind that you are reading the distilled thoughts of long time cynics, fire blackened and tempered by years in the crucible of an exploitive global civil aviation arena.
Of course in your situation it’s the calling of a lifetime and all you’re interested in is getting to grips with the aeroplanes and learning all the ATPL tech stuff – and I really don’t think anyone would criticise you for going right on ahead if you are offered a place by SIA. My colleagues and myself will be very happy to see you when you come on line and will most certainly help you advance your career in any way we can.
All I would ask you to consider is that when the gloss does wear off and you eventually realise that SIA pays very poorly on a world scale and similarly treats its pilots with an unconscionable amount of contempt, you will allow for old duffers like me to sound off on this forum, or through ALPA-S, about pay, conditions, bonds and bank guarantees in the hope of galvanising enough people that change, to your distinct future benefit, may eventually come about.
Perhaps if you have alternatives to the SIA cadet scheme you would be very well advised to seriously consider them.
Meanwhile, I wish you the very best of luck and good fortune in your endeavour.
Kind regards