Canada resisted helping U.S. on September 11
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Canada resisted helping U.S. on September 11
Excerpted from front page article in today's Wall Street Journal: "Within two hours, all of United's and American's domestic flights were on the ground and accounted for. Late in the afternoon, however, United still had some planes over the Pacific. These were nerve-racking times. United said it had to press hard on Canadian authorities and even Alaskan airport officials who initially refused to let the planes land."
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Well, it was definitely a confusing situation for all concerned.
Here's a link to the original article:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/642996.asp?0dm=C237B
Here's a link to the original article:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/642996.asp?0dm=C237B
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This thread has an inappropriate inflammatory title, and should be retitled or deleted.
Based on the news report it could alternatively be titled "Alaska resisted helping the US on Sept. 11th".
Presumably both Alaska and British Columbia have relatively few airports capable of taking heavy jets, and there was a valid fear of extreme congestion at these few airports if all in-bound and out-bound transpacific overflights were to seek to land at once.
The East Coast of Canada has many more airports capable of handling heavies than does the West Coast, hence the hesitation on the West Coast. No sinister Canadian plot I am afraid.
Based on the news report it could alternatively be titled "Alaska resisted helping the US on Sept. 11th".
Presumably both Alaska and British Columbia have relatively few airports capable of taking heavy jets, and there was a valid fear of extreme congestion at these few airports if all in-bound and out-bound transpacific overflights were to seek to land at once.
The East Coast of Canada has many more airports capable of handling heavies than does the West Coast, hence the hesitation on the West Coast. No sinister Canadian plot I am afraid.
I agree with McGinty, the title is misleading.
Here is a letter floating around the internet, may be a hoax but I doubt it. Americans owe a huge thanks to all involved!
Subject: RE: The Kindness of Strangers (by a Delta Flight Attendant)
We were about 5 hours out of Frankfurt flying over the North Atlantic
and I was in my crew rest seat taking my scheduled rest break. All of a
sudden the curtains parted violently and I was told to go to the
cockpit, right now, to see the captain. As soon as I got there I noticed
that the crew had one of those "All Business" looks on their faces.
The captain handed me a printed message. I quickly read the message and
realized the importance of it. The message was from Atlanta, addressed
to our flight, and simply said, "All airways over the Continental US are
closed. Land ASAP at the nearest airport, advise your destination."
Now, when a dispatcher tells you to land immediately without suggesting
which airport, one can assume that the dispatcher has reluctantly given
up control of the flight to the captain. We knew it was a serious
situation and we needed to find terra firma quickly. It was quickly
decided that the nearest airport was 400 miles away, behind our right
shoulder, in Gander, on the island of New Foundland.
A quick request was made to the Canadian traffic controller and a right
turn, directly to Gander, was approved immediately. We found out later
why there was no hesitation by the Canadian controller approving our
request.
We, the in-flight crew, were told to get the airplane ready for an
immediate landing. While this was going on another message arrived from
Atlanta telling us about some terrorist activity in the New York area.
We briefed the in-flight crew about going to Gander and we went about
our business 'closing down' the airplane for a landing. A few minutes
later I went back to the cockpit to find out that some airplanes had
been hijacked and were being flown into buildings all over the US.
We decided to make an announcement and LIE to the passengers for the
time being. We told them that an instrument problem had arisen on the
airplane and that we needed to land at Gander, to have it checked. We
promised to give more information after landing in Gander. There were
many unhappy passengers but that is par for the course.
We landed in Gander about 40 minutes after the start of this episode.
There were already about 20 other airplanes on the ground from all over
the world. After we parked on the ramp the captain made the following
announcement. "Ladies and gentlemen, you must be wondering if all these
airplanes around us have the same instrument problem as we have. But
the reality is that we are here for a good reason." Then he went on to
explain the little bit we knew about the situation in the US. There were
loud gasps and stares of disbelief.
Local time at Gander was 12:30 pm. (11:00 AM EST) Gander control told
us to stay put. No one was allowed to get off the aircraft. No one on
the ground was allowed to come near the aircraft.
Only a car from the airport police would come around once in a while,
look us over and go on to the next airplane. In the next hour or so all
the airways over the North Atlantic were vacated and Gander alone ended
up with 53 airplanes from all over the world, out of which 27 were
flying US flags. We were told that each and every plane was to be
offloaded, one at a time, with the foreign carriers given the priority.
We were No.14 in the US category. We were further told that we would be
given a tentative time to deplane at 6 pm. Meanwhile bits of news
started to come in over the aircraft radio and for the first time we
learned that airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center in New
York and into the Pentagon in DC. People were trying to use their cell
phones but were unable to connect due to a different cell system in
Canada. Some did get through but were only able to get to the Canadian
operator who would tell them that the lines to the US were either
blocked or jammed and to try again.
Some time late in the evening the news filtered to us that the World
Trade Center buildings had collapsed and that a fourth hijacking had
resulted in a crash.
Now the passengers were totally bewildered and emotionally exhausted but
stayed calm as we kept reminding them to look around to see that we were
not the only ones in this predicament. There were 52 other planes with
people on them in the same situation. We also told them that the
Canadian Government was in charge and we were at their mercy. True to
their word, at 6 PM, Gander airport told us that our turn to deplane
would come at 11 AM, the next morning. That took the last wind out of
the passengers and they simply resigned and accepted this news without
much noise and really started to get into a mode of spending the night
on the airplane.
Gander had promised us any and all medical attention if needed;
medicine, water, and lavatory servicing. And they were true to their
word. Fortunately we had no medical situation during the night. We did
have a young lady who was 33 weeks into her pregnancy. We took REALLY
good care of her. The night passed without any further complications on
our airplane despite the uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. About
10:30 on the morning of the 12th we were told to get ready to leave the
aircraft.
A convoy of school buses showed up at the side of the airplane, the
stairway was hooked up and the passengers were taken to the terminal for
"processing" We, the crew, were taken to the same terminal but were told
to go to a different section, where we were processed through
Immigration and customs and then had to register with the Red Cross.
After that we were isolated from our passengers and were taken in a
caravan of vans to a very small hotel in the town of Gander. We had no
idea where our passengers were going.
The town of Gander has a population of 10,400 people. Red Cross told us
that they were going to process about 10,500 passengers from all the
airplanes that were forced into Gander. We were told to just relax at
the hotel and wait for a call to go back to the airport, but not to
expect that call for a while. We found out the total scope of the
terror back home only after getting to our hotel and turning on the TV,
24 hours after it all started. Meanwhile we enjoyed ourselves going
around town discovering things and enjoying the hospitality. The people
were so friendly and they just knew that we were the "Plane people". We
all had a great time until we got that call, 2 days later, on the 14th
at 7 AM. We made it to the airport by 8:30 AM and left for Atlanta at
12:30 PM arriving in Atlanta at about 4:30 PM. (Gander is 1 hour and 30
minutes ahead of EST, yes!, 1 hour and 30 minutes.) But that's not what
I wanted to tell you.
What passengers told us was so uplifting and incredible and the timing
couldn't have been better.
We found out that Gander and the surrounding small communities, within a
75 Kilometer radius, had closed all the high schools, meeting halls,
lodges, and any other large gathering places. They converted all these
facilities to a mass lodging area. Some had cots set up, some had mats
with sleeping bags and pillows set up. ALL the high school students HAD
to volunteer taking care of the "GUESTS". Our 218 passengers ended up in
a town called Lewisporte, about 45 Kilometers from Gander. There they
were put in a high school. If any women wanted to be in a women only
facility, that was arranged. Families were kept together. All the
elderly passengers were given no choice and were taken to private
homes. Remember that young pregnant lady, she was put up in a private
home right across the street from a 24 hour Urgent Care type facility.
There were DDS on call and they had both male and female nurses
available and stayed with the crowd for the duration. Phone calls and
emails to US and Europe were available for every one once a day.
During the days the passengers were given a choice of "Excursion"
trips. Some people went on boat cruises of the lakes and harbors. Some
went to see the local forests. Local bakeries stayed open to make fresh
bread for the guests. Food was prepared by all the residents and brought
to the school for those who elected to stay put. Others were driven to
the eatery of their choice and fed. They were given tokens to go to the
local Laundromat to wash their clothes, since their luggage was still on
the aircraft. In other words every single need was met for those
unfortunate travelers. Passengers were crying while telling us these
stories.
After all that, they were delivered to the airport right on time and
without a single one missing or late. All because the local Red Cross
had all the information about the goings on back at Gander and knew
which group needed to leave for the airport at what time. Absolutely
incredible.
When passengers came on board, it was like they had been on a cruise.
Everybody knew everybody else by their name. They were swapping stories
of their stay, impressing each other with who had the better time. It
was mind boggling. Our flight back to Atlanta looked like a party
flight. We simply stayed out of their way. The passengers had totally
bonded and they were calling each other by their first names, exchanging
phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses. And then a strange thing
happened.
One of our business class passengers approached me and asked if he could
speak over the PA to his fellow passengers. We never, never, allow
that. But something told me to get out of his way. I said "of course".
The gentleman picked up the PA and reminded everyone about what they had
just gone through in the last few days. He reminded them of the
hospitality they had received at the hands of total strangers. He
further stated that he would like to do something in return for the good
folks of t he town of Lewisporte. He said he was going to set up a
Trust Fund under the name of DELTA 15 (our flight number). The purpose
of the trust fund is to provide a scholarship for high school student(s)
of Lewisporte to help them go to college. He asked for donations of any
amount from his fellow travelers. When the paper with donations got
back to us with the amounts, names, phone numbers and addresses, it
totaled to $14.5K or about $20K Canadian. The gentleman who started all
this turned out to be an MD from Virginia. He promised to match the
donations and to start the administrative work on the scholarship. He
also said that he would forward this proposal to Delta Corporate and ask
them to donate as well.
Why, all of this? Just because some people in far away places were
kind to some strangers, who happened to literally drop in among them?
WHY NOT?
Lama Bear
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with
a terrible resolve."
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
Here is a letter floating around the internet, may be a hoax but I doubt it. Americans owe a huge thanks to all involved!
Subject: RE: The Kindness of Strangers (by a Delta Flight Attendant)
We were about 5 hours out of Frankfurt flying over the North Atlantic
and I was in my crew rest seat taking my scheduled rest break. All of a
sudden the curtains parted violently and I was told to go to the
cockpit, right now, to see the captain. As soon as I got there I noticed
that the crew had one of those "All Business" looks on their faces.
The captain handed me a printed message. I quickly read the message and
realized the importance of it. The message was from Atlanta, addressed
to our flight, and simply said, "All airways over the Continental US are
closed. Land ASAP at the nearest airport, advise your destination."
Now, when a dispatcher tells you to land immediately without suggesting
which airport, one can assume that the dispatcher has reluctantly given
up control of the flight to the captain. We knew it was a serious
situation and we needed to find terra firma quickly. It was quickly
decided that the nearest airport was 400 miles away, behind our right
shoulder, in Gander, on the island of New Foundland.
A quick request was made to the Canadian traffic controller and a right
turn, directly to Gander, was approved immediately. We found out later
why there was no hesitation by the Canadian controller approving our
request.
We, the in-flight crew, were told to get the airplane ready for an
immediate landing. While this was going on another message arrived from
Atlanta telling us about some terrorist activity in the New York area.
We briefed the in-flight crew about going to Gander and we went about
our business 'closing down' the airplane for a landing. A few minutes
later I went back to the cockpit to find out that some airplanes had
been hijacked and were being flown into buildings all over the US.
We decided to make an announcement and LIE to the passengers for the
time being. We told them that an instrument problem had arisen on the
airplane and that we needed to land at Gander, to have it checked. We
promised to give more information after landing in Gander. There were
many unhappy passengers but that is par for the course.
We landed in Gander about 40 minutes after the start of this episode.
There were already about 20 other airplanes on the ground from all over
the world. After we parked on the ramp the captain made the following
announcement. "Ladies and gentlemen, you must be wondering if all these
airplanes around us have the same instrument problem as we have. But
the reality is that we are here for a good reason." Then he went on to
explain the little bit we knew about the situation in the US. There were
loud gasps and stares of disbelief.
Local time at Gander was 12:30 pm. (11:00 AM EST) Gander control told
us to stay put. No one was allowed to get off the aircraft. No one on
the ground was allowed to come near the aircraft.
Only a car from the airport police would come around once in a while,
look us over and go on to the next airplane. In the next hour or so all
the airways over the North Atlantic were vacated and Gander alone ended
up with 53 airplanes from all over the world, out of which 27 were
flying US flags. We were told that each and every plane was to be
offloaded, one at a time, with the foreign carriers given the priority.
We were No.14 in the US category. We were further told that we would be
given a tentative time to deplane at 6 pm. Meanwhile bits of news
started to come in over the aircraft radio and for the first time we
learned that airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center in New
York and into the Pentagon in DC. People were trying to use their cell
phones but were unable to connect due to a different cell system in
Canada. Some did get through but were only able to get to the Canadian
operator who would tell them that the lines to the US were either
blocked or jammed and to try again.
Some time late in the evening the news filtered to us that the World
Trade Center buildings had collapsed and that a fourth hijacking had
resulted in a crash.
Now the passengers were totally bewildered and emotionally exhausted but
stayed calm as we kept reminding them to look around to see that we were
not the only ones in this predicament. There were 52 other planes with
people on them in the same situation. We also told them that the
Canadian Government was in charge and we were at their mercy. True to
their word, at 6 PM, Gander airport told us that our turn to deplane
would come at 11 AM, the next morning. That took the last wind out of
the passengers and they simply resigned and accepted this news without
much noise and really started to get into a mode of spending the night
on the airplane.
Gander had promised us any and all medical attention if needed;
medicine, water, and lavatory servicing. And they were true to their
word. Fortunately we had no medical situation during the night. We did
have a young lady who was 33 weeks into her pregnancy. We took REALLY
good care of her. The night passed without any further complications on
our airplane despite the uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. About
10:30 on the morning of the 12th we were told to get ready to leave the
aircraft.
A convoy of school buses showed up at the side of the airplane, the
stairway was hooked up and the passengers were taken to the terminal for
"processing" We, the crew, were taken to the same terminal but were told
to go to a different section, where we were processed through
Immigration and customs and then had to register with the Red Cross.
After that we were isolated from our passengers and were taken in a
caravan of vans to a very small hotel in the town of Gander. We had no
idea where our passengers were going.
The town of Gander has a population of 10,400 people. Red Cross told us
that they were going to process about 10,500 passengers from all the
airplanes that were forced into Gander. We were told to just relax at
the hotel and wait for a call to go back to the airport, but not to
expect that call for a while. We found out the total scope of the
terror back home only after getting to our hotel and turning on the TV,
24 hours after it all started. Meanwhile we enjoyed ourselves going
around town discovering things and enjoying the hospitality. The people
were so friendly and they just knew that we were the "Plane people". We
all had a great time until we got that call, 2 days later, on the 14th
at 7 AM. We made it to the airport by 8:30 AM and left for Atlanta at
12:30 PM arriving in Atlanta at about 4:30 PM. (Gander is 1 hour and 30
minutes ahead of EST, yes!, 1 hour and 30 minutes.) But that's not what
I wanted to tell you.
What passengers told us was so uplifting and incredible and the timing
couldn't have been better.
We found out that Gander and the surrounding small communities, within a
75 Kilometer radius, had closed all the high schools, meeting halls,
lodges, and any other large gathering places. They converted all these
facilities to a mass lodging area. Some had cots set up, some had mats
with sleeping bags and pillows set up. ALL the high school students HAD
to volunteer taking care of the "GUESTS". Our 218 passengers ended up in
a town called Lewisporte, about 45 Kilometers from Gander. There they
were put in a high school. If any women wanted to be in a women only
facility, that was arranged. Families were kept together. All the
elderly passengers were given no choice and were taken to private
homes. Remember that young pregnant lady, she was put up in a private
home right across the street from a 24 hour Urgent Care type facility.
There were DDS on call and they had both male and female nurses
available and stayed with the crowd for the duration. Phone calls and
emails to US and Europe were available for every one once a day.
During the days the passengers were given a choice of "Excursion"
trips. Some people went on boat cruises of the lakes and harbors. Some
went to see the local forests. Local bakeries stayed open to make fresh
bread for the guests. Food was prepared by all the residents and brought
to the school for those who elected to stay put. Others were driven to
the eatery of their choice and fed. They were given tokens to go to the
local Laundromat to wash their clothes, since their luggage was still on
the aircraft. In other words every single need was met for those
unfortunate travelers. Passengers were crying while telling us these
stories.
After all that, they were delivered to the airport right on time and
without a single one missing or late. All because the local Red Cross
had all the information about the goings on back at Gander and knew
which group needed to leave for the airport at what time. Absolutely
incredible.
When passengers came on board, it was like they had been on a cruise.
Everybody knew everybody else by their name. They were swapping stories
of their stay, impressing each other with who had the better time. It
was mind boggling. Our flight back to Atlanta looked like a party
flight. We simply stayed out of their way. The passengers had totally
bonded and they were calling each other by their first names, exchanging
phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses. And then a strange thing
happened.
One of our business class passengers approached me and asked if he could
speak over the PA to his fellow passengers. We never, never, allow
that. But something told me to get out of his way. I said "of course".
The gentleman picked up the PA and reminded everyone about what they had
just gone through in the last few days. He reminded them of the
hospitality they had received at the hands of total strangers. He
further stated that he would like to do something in return for the good
folks of t he town of Lewisporte. He said he was going to set up a
Trust Fund under the name of DELTA 15 (our flight number). The purpose
of the trust fund is to provide a scholarship for high school student(s)
of Lewisporte to help them go to college. He asked for donations of any
amount from his fellow travelers. When the paper with donations got
back to us with the amounts, names, phone numbers and addresses, it
totaled to $14.5K or about $20K Canadian. The gentleman who started all
this turned out to be an MD from Virginia. He promised to match the
donations and to start the administrative work on the scholarship. He
also said that he would forward this proposal to Delta Corporate and ask
them to donate as well.
Why, all of this? Just because some people in far away places were
kind to some strangers, who happened to literally drop in among them?
WHY NOT?
Lama Bear
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with
a terrible resolve."
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
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Lama
A heart warming tale which confirms that most people are nice people most of the time.Thanks for posting it.
On a slight tangent, I often said that that if I ended up in a fix I would like to have (1) Scotmen around me and (2) North Americans and (last) English peeps........Nothing racialist in my view..........Scots and North Americans see a problem and their reaction is " fix it quickly".....the English solution is " set up a Committee". Both can be effective but I know which one I prefer. !!!!!!
It's the diference between Bush "line in the sand " and the British Prime Minsister Blair welcoming (!!!!!!!!) Arafat the terrorist into his official residence (10 Downing Street today(Mon).
Safe flying
and thanks again for the uplifting post
Pter J
A heart warming tale which confirms that most people are nice people most of the time.Thanks for posting it.
On a slight tangent, I often said that that if I ended up in a fix I would like to have (1) Scotmen around me and (2) North Americans and (last) English peeps........Nothing racialist in my view..........Scots and North Americans see a problem and their reaction is " fix it quickly".....the English solution is " set up a Committee". Both can be effective but I know which one I prefer. !!!!!!
It's the diference between Bush "line in the sand " and the British Prime Minsister Blair welcoming (!!!!!!!!) Arafat the terrorist into his official residence (10 Downing Street today(Mon).
Safe flying
and thanks again for the uplifting post
Pter J
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Arafat, like Mandela, is a "rehabilitated" terrorist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate...
Don't settle for cheap imitations from the North, get a real American, not a "North American" <g>.
Don't settle for cheap imitations from the North, get a real American, not a "North American" <g>.
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I subscribe to to a quasi real time flight tracking service (e-mail for details if you want) which covers American monitored airspace. At Impact 1 + 2 hours my screen ws showing me 17 (one seven) in the airspace monitored instead of the usual 4-5 thousand(4K-5K).....nothing over Caanada........Food for thought ?
Dunno about the West Coast. Here's what it looked like at QX and HZ. http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/krista.ken/
Peter J,
I saw some aerial pictures of the Gander airport, while all of the aircraft were there, on the net. If you can find them they really show the size of the task facing the Canadians. Maybe some one lurking can post the url?
After looking at some Gander pictures, it's possible the one I saw was of the Halifax airport. Aircraft were lined up two wide (staggered) on one of the runways.
Edited again, it was Halifax. the picture I was remembering is
http://www.hiaa.ca/photo_collection/pages/overview1.htm
Lubicon's link is great.
Thanks again to the neighbors to the north.
Lama Bear
[ 16 October 2001: Message edited by: Lama Bear ]
[ 16 October 2001: Message edited by: Lama Bear ]
I saw some aerial pictures of the Gander airport, while all of the aircraft were there, on the net. If you can find them they really show the size of the task facing the Canadians. Maybe some one lurking can post the url?
After looking at some Gander pictures, it's possible the one I saw was of the Halifax airport. Aircraft were lined up two wide (staggered) on one of the runways.
Edited again, it was Halifax. the picture I was remembering is
http://www.hiaa.ca/photo_collection/pages/overview1.htm
Lubicon's link is great.
Thanks again to the neighbors to the north.
Lama Bear
[ 16 October 2001: Message edited by: Lama Bear ]
[ 16 October 2001: Message edited by: Lama Bear ]
Eight Gun Fighter
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The velocity of events in the first couple of hours was chaotic and it took a bit of time to pass the bucks upwards to get a authoritive decision to accommodate all the aircraft and their passengers and simultaneously close Canadian airspace. YVR expected 23 heavies and ended up with 34. I have no doubt the DL F/As story is real and am very proud of the people of Gander and Newfoundland as I am of the folks here who rose to the task. We are best friends with our American cousins...after the War of 1812 anyway.
Everything is under control.
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If you want to delete it or change the title fine with me. The image portrayed by the U.S. press was that Canada's support was unwavering that day. This article says that was not the case. That's news, I think. As is the Alaska angle. Everyone in the U.S. appreciates the help provided by Canada that day.
[ 16 October 2001: Message edited by: Eboy ]
[ 16 October 2001: Message edited by: Eboy ]
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Another article about the confusion of the early minutes of the attack:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/16/na...gewanted=print
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/16/na...gewanted=print
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The website below shows photos from various Canadian airports, including Vancouver as well as a complete list of diverted aircraft to Canadian airports. A few personal thoughts, Canada's left coast really has only one airport (Vancouver) capable of handling the large aircraft flying trans-pacific routes and that is Vancouver (CFB Comox could be another, but being a military base I wonder if it would be considered and alternate. Diverting 34 planes, plus the groundstop to departing flights put well over 100 planes at YVR that day (I believe I saw that number quoted, not sure where). YVR would have been pretty full at that point. Secondly, at that time nobody was really sure what was going on, except that the U.S. seemed to be under attack. Were there more hijackers in the air? Nobody really knew for sure and now Canada was being asked to accept every plane coming their way. I would think the authorities were understandably nervous as they really did not know for certain if the diverted aircraft headed their way were legitimate or potential weapons. Maybe it took awhile to sort everything out.
On a side note, an Asian airline (not sure which airline) 747 diverted to Whitehorse, Yukon Territory that day with low fuel after being denied clearance to land in Alaska. Not sure how much of a detour it had to make to avoid US airspace as the Alaskan panhandle extends South quite some distance down the Canadian coastline.
I'm rambling now so I'll stop writing. I think Canada did an exceptional job that day accepting over 200 unexpected aircraft and 30000-40000 unexpected guests on very short notice. There were probably a few mix ups but let's keep things in perspective. I'm proud and glad to have helped our American friends and neighbors.
www.canairradio.com/photos.html
On a side note, an Asian airline (not sure which airline) 747 diverted to Whitehorse, Yukon Territory that day with low fuel after being denied clearance to land in Alaska. Not sure how much of a detour it had to make to avoid US airspace as the Alaskan panhandle extends South quite some distance down the Canadian coastline.
I'm rambling now so I'll stop writing. I think Canada did an exceptional job that day accepting over 200 unexpected aircraft and 30000-40000 unexpected guests on very short notice. There were probably a few mix ups but let's keep things in perspective. I'm proud and glad to have helped our American friends and neighbors.
www.canairradio.com/photos.html
Just a numbered other
Heartwarming tale, lama, and one I hope would be repeated wherever these events had unfolded
PETERJ, Why'd you have to go and spoil it with small minded anti English racism?
PETERJ, Why'd you have to go and spoil it with small minded anti English racism?
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Here's another version of the first-hand account published above by lama.
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...&f=46&t=002122
[ 20 October 2001: Message edited by: fobotcso ]
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...&f=46&t=002122
[ 20 October 2001: Message edited by: fobotcso ]
