Ryanair Cost-cutting?
Join Date: Sep 1999
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In all the outfits I've ever worked in I've found a sense of unity within the pilot body with the sole exception of Ryanair.
I have never known such an attitude of self interest to prevale anywhere - inside or outside aviation. In FR we even have a culture of running up to management to tell tales about other crewmembers, with the obvious intent of clearing out those above you for an faster command, since that is the only way to get a payrise.
In the past we've had attempts at getting unionised, but there is always someone else who will do your job for less money. The Chalerois base being a classic case.
Each year as new pilots join, the contract gets worse - less money all the time.
The sooner more pilots realise that this is why trade unions were ever invented, then perhaps there might be a chance of stopping the rot.
I have never known such an attitude of self interest to prevale anywhere - inside or outside aviation. In FR we even have a culture of running up to management to tell tales about other crewmembers, with the obvious intent of clearing out those above you for an faster command, since that is the only way to get a payrise.
In the past we've had attempts at getting unionised, but there is always someone else who will do your job for less money. The Chalerois base being a classic case.
Each year as new pilots join, the contract gets worse - less money all the time.
The sooner more pilots realise that this is why trade unions were ever invented, then perhaps there might be a chance of stopping the rot.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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As a Captain in Ryanair and I agree whole heartedly with all the sentiments. Its called taking the p**s of the highest order by the management. 5 Year Agreement effectively thrown out by MOL and with everything else that is being removed we are on the slippery slope.
I do hope we the pilots can get ourselves organised and stick it up em!
Some may say why not leave well here we have our dilemma-
Although I hesitate to lower the tone by talking salaries I am afraid I have to live in the real world.
At present as a Line Captain I can expect to take home approx £5000 in my dirty mit every month.
To leave and join Virgin, BY, MON etc I have to go back as an FO, for say 5 or 6 years or more) on perhaps £3000 net a month(a guess on my part)
Reality is some of the niceties in these places aint worth £2000 a month to me.
Ok join Easy or Channex get a DE Command. Its no better there from what I hear and I get more money and more time off where I am.
Money is not my God but I have to be real! Its a dilemma that many of us face.
I do hope we the pilots can get ourselves organised and stick it up em!
Some may say why not leave well here we have our dilemma-
Although I hesitate to lower the tone by talking salaries I am afraid I have to live in the real world.
At present as a Line Captain I can expect to take home approx £5000 in my dirty mit every month.
To leave and join Virgin, BY, MON etc I have to go back as an FO, for say 5 or 6 years or more) on perhaps £3000 net a month(a guess on my part)
Reality is some of the niceties in these places aint worth £2000 a month to me.
Ok join Easy or Channex get a DE Command. Its no better there from what I hear and I get more money and more time off where I am.
Money is not my God but I have to be real! Its a dilemma that many of us face.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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I was offered a position with FR and on advice received from friends already there I knocked it back. Its probably turning out to be one of my better decisions. I have just taken up a DE command with another airline and am very happy so far.
It would only take a few days of refusing discretion, flying sensible (ie slower) descent/approach profiles and taxying at a more sedate pace to give MoL a gentle reminder. But it would take all of you together....And no I am not an orange agent!
Whatever, I wish you all well but in this industry if you want to be treated fairly you will have to make it happen. Things aren't going to get better on their own and moaning on PPrune aint gonna change anything.
It would only take a few days of refusing discretion, flying sensible (ie slower) descent/approach profiles and taxying at a more sedate pace to give MoL a gentle reminder. But it would take all of you together....And no I am not an orange agent!
Whatever, I wish you all well but in this industry if you want to be treated fairly you will have to make it happen. Things aren't going to get better on their own and moaning on PPrune aint gonna change anything.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Ok join Easy or Channex get a DE Command. Its no better there from what I hear and I get more money and more time off where I am.
Sims Fly Virtually
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Used to be 3rd Sand Dune from the Left - But now I'm somewhere else somewhere else.
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"Personal Titles"
Hey - all the posters on this thread must be RYR underpaid employees. 
None of them has shelled out even $25 or so for a minimum "Personal Title" to help Danny fund the board!
Come on guys!!!
(and I'm not "Nigel" - note the "ExSimGuy"
when I sit down I don't have to remove wallet from back pocket to get comfy)
None of them has shelled out even $25 or so for a minimum "Personal Title" to help Danny fund the board!
Come on guys!!!
(and I'm not "Nigel" - note the "ExSimGuy"
when I sit down I don't have to remove wallet from back pocket to get comfy)
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I work for FR and imho it's alright.
All the the so called benifits and protection I thought I had with my previous major carrier were worth diddly squat when push came to shove.
With FR you get what it says on the tin. Good money, stable roster, do your job and you get left alone.
As with all employment (not just aviation) you make your own choices to suit yourself. Fr suits me but not everyone.
All the the so called benifits and protection I thought I had with my previous major carrier were worth diddly squat when push came to shove.
With FR you get what it says on the tin. Good money, stable roster, do your job and you get left alone.
As with all employment (not just aviation) you make your own choices to suit yourself. Fr suits me but not everyone.
Join Date: Sep 1999
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Eh Ringo,
Will you be all right when MO'L never gives you a payrise, takes away pension contributions, has you pay for your license, uniform the water you drink?
My guess is that you are probably in the right hand seat and the only payrise you will ever see is by moving to the left hand seat. So it's ok if all those guys in the left seat are unhappy and go elsewhere, cos that'll mean getting the payrise sooner.
Whatever MO'L has, it's a bunch of self interested individuals that are prepared to work for less that the guy beside him. Each year he will throw fewer and fewer crumbs onto the floor, and there will always be no shortage of guys scurrying up to take them. He knows that, and that's what turning this place from a good place to work, with good money into one of the lowest paying outfits, with no working conditions, albeit slowly.
Will you be all right when MO'L never gives you a payrise, takes away pension contributions, has you pay for your license, uniform the water you drink?
My guess is that you are probably in the right hand seat and the only payrise you will ever see is by moving to the left hand seat. So it's ok if all those guys in the left seat are unhappy and go elsewhere, cos that'll mean getting the payrise sooner.
Whatever MO'L has, it's a bunch of self interested individuals that are prepared to work for less that the guy beside him. Each year he will throw fewer and fewer crumbs onto the floor, and there will always be no shortage of guys scurrying up to take them. He knows that, and that's what turning this place from a good place to work, with good money into one of the lowest paying outfits, with no working conditions, albeit slowly.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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If you all have a problem with Ryanair, leave or better still why did you join in the first place? For every pilot flying there is about 10 wanabees who would sell their own soul for a job flying a 738 around Europe!
So make up our mind, job or no job!?
So make up our mind, job or no job!?
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Airbourne -
You're obviously a wannabe to have come out with that statement. So i checked your profile and see you work in "Event Management". Persumably you would be more than happy to see your boss renege on deals and cut back on whatever benefits you have. And I assure you, from personal knowledge, there are plenty of young lads/ladies who would sell their soul to work in Event Management/PR/Marketing etc if you were to not like the new situation.
If you ever get a job flying, you will look back on your post, cringe and wonder how you could ever write such drivel.
You're obviously a wannabe to have come out with that statement. So i checked your profile and see you work in "Event Management". Persumably you would be more than happy to see your boss renege on deals and cut back on whatever benefits you have. And I assure you, from personal knowledge, there are plenty of young lads/ladies who would sell their soul to work in Event Management/PR/Marketing etc if you were to not like the new situation.
If you ever get a job flying, you will look back on your post, cringe and wonder how you could ever write such drivel.
Join Date: May 2000
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In the UK subsidiary of an American company I once worked for we had monthly meetings with a very senior manager (the most senior in town on the day). You did not have to go, but if you did you could ask anything you wanted.
One of the barrack room lawyers said that he had not had a rise for eighteen months, and asked for a formal statement on the company's remuneration policy. He was told:
'The company remuneration policy is to pay you identically what it costs to keep you, for as long as we need you, and nothing thereafter.'
However you dress it up, this is the simple, unvarnished, truth. Ryanair just don't bother with the bullshit that normally accompanies this kind of discussion. In my experience you are more likely to have a future with a ruthless management that knows where it is going than with a bunch of nice chaps who don't.
Which has the better job security right now: BA (or Sabena, or Swiss, or United, or.........) or Ryanair? He must be doing something right!
I'm not banging a drum for Ryanair: personally, I find their product offering deeply unappealing. But the figures would suggest I am in the minority.
One of the barrack room lawyers said that he had not had a rise for eighteen months, and asked for a formal statement on the company's remuneration policy. He was told:
'The company remuneration policy is to pay you identically what it costs to keep you, for as long as we need you, and nothing thereafter.'
However you dress it up, this is the simple, unvarnished, truth. Ryanair just don't bother with the bullshit that normally accompanies this kind of discussion. In my experience you are more likely to have a future with a ruthless management that knows where it is going than with a bunch of nice chaps who don't.
Which has the better job security right now: BA (or Sabena, or Swiss, or United, or.........) or Ryanair? He must be doing something right!
I'm not banging a drum for Ryanair: personally, I find their product offering deeply unappealing. But the figures would suggest I am in the minority.
Thread Starter
The simple fact is that a company which can boast the numbers of passengers which RyanAir claim in their own website can easily afford the 3-4 million which they claim they need to save...
Just stop offering barking mad fares and join the grown up world. There would still be sufficient demand elasticity were Mo'L to add 1 to each and every ticket sold.
Just stop offering barking mad fares and join the grown up world. There would still be sufficient demand elasticity were Mo'L to add 1 to each and every ticket sold.
Or SLF3 you could do it the SOUTHWEST way:
Low but realistic fares
Treat your customers with respect
Treat your personnel with respect
And still enjoy 30+ years of profitability
Mol's method of management will be his and his company's eventual downfall, which imho is not all that far away.
Low but realistic fares
Treat your customers with respect
Treat your personnel with respect
And still enjoy 30+ years of profitability
Mol's method of management will be his and his company's eventual downfall, which imho is not all that far away.
I call you back
Join Date: Nov 2001
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He could save that by cutting his own wages
O'Leary pays 14 in personal tax for year
I don't think this has anything to do with FR saving a few quid.
I don't think this has anything to do with FR saving a few quid.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Well said
Sorry guys - its not fun anymore.
The cabin crew is unhappy, the pilots are unhappy - I guess it's only the new hires, who are smiling these days....but for how long.
In times when the slippery road gets too slippery, management needs the employees to back them up. Unfortunately nobody wants to back MOL anymore. Nobody laughs at his jokes, his F*** BA etc...
The scary things is; What happens if the pilots don't give MOL what he wants from them - he certainly just give them less and less...
But will the EU save MOL. Lots of Polish and former eastern pilots are waiting in the shadows - will they join? I guess so.....
The cabin crew is unhappy, the pilots are unhappy - I guess it's only the new hires, who are smiling these days....but for how long.
In times when the slippery road gets too slippery, management needs the employees to back them up. Unfortunately nobody wants to back MOL anymore. Nobody laughs at his jokes, his F*** BA etc...
The scary things is; What happens if the pilots don't give MOL what he wants from them - he certainly just give them less and less...
But will the EU save MOL. Lots of Polish and former eastern pilots are waiting in the shadows - will they join? I guess so.....
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Maximus,
No, Im not a wanabee. I fly for fun! I stand by my statement. You all know what Ryanair is like. They have been cutting back since MOL came on board, so you have no one to blame except yourself. Anyone who took the decision to join Ryanair had to be prepared for this. It was only a matter of time! Everyone moaned like hell when they introduced the £50 application fee with comments like 'its not fair' 'wont work' 'Im a professional, im not paying that'. What happened? Pilots still continue to pay it because they want a job with a bunch of tight fisted bastards!
Yes, there are total rip off merchants in my business as there is in any business, but I made the decision to stay away from those types. We all have choices. Dont make a bad one and start moaning about it in public.
If you ever get a real good flying job, you will look back and wonder how you made such a bullshit statement!
No, Im not a wanabee. I fly for fun! I stand by my statement. You all know what Ryanair is like. They have been cutting back since MOL came on board, so you have no one to blame except yourself. Anyone who took the decision to join Ryanair had to be prepared for this. It was only a matter of time! Everyone moaned like hell when they introduced the £50 application fee with comments like 'its not fair' 'wont work' 'Im a professional, im not paying that'. What happened? Pilots still continue to pay it because they want a job with a bunch of tight fisted bastards!
Yes, there are total rip off merchants in my business as there is in any business, but I made the decision to stay away from those types. We all have choices. Dont make a bad one and start moaning about it in public.
If you ever get a real good flying job, you will look back and wonder how you made such a bullshit statement!
