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BA pension and pay fiasco

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BA pension and pay fiasco

Old 14th Mar 2004, 17:33
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BA pension and pay fiasco

Rod our leader tells us we are in a mess.

AGAIN........

His Solution

Raise our pension contributions to 9.5% or take a reduced pension.
and
as a further twist, the pay rise on offer is
1% this year
2% the year after, and
2% the year after that
A three year deal WOW!!!!!!!

Rod be realistic. No one will accept a pay rise below R.P.I.
and
no one will pay more into the pension scheme to pay for the inadequate company contributions during the Failing Ayling reign.

The best you will get pilots to agree, is a pay rise of least R.P.I.
and a
change in the pension calculator with a raise in the retirement age to the industry average to enable the Aeroplane Drivers to get a decent pension when they finish, and still reduce the pension hole. (1 billion no less!!).

Anything else and I must respectfully say you are in a dream world.

A common problem at waterside.

Last edited by WhoopWhoop Whoops; 19th Mar 2004 at 14:16.
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Old 14th Mar 2004, 19:11
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Thumbs down

Lucky you, getting a pay rise!

We had nothing this year 1% last year and nothing the year before, count yourself lucky you're getting something!
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Old 14th Mar 2004, 19:21
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Maybe if the company stopped paying a couple of hundred people to sit at home on full pay, and paid the market rates for other jobs ( I think we all know who we are talking about), then we wouldn't have to put up with this rubbish. Alternatively, stop paying RA his 1/4 mill a year pension.
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Old 14th Mar 2004, 19:21
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BA pilots have been benchmarked for pay against similar european airlines. Any pay rise should keep BA pilots in line with colleagues across europe. Why should they expect less, since they are as productive as any in this part of the world?

Just a thought spannersatcx, are you and your colleagues in balpa?
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Old 14th Mar 2004, 20:47
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Rod has realised that you guys have ripped the ring out of pay, allowances, pensions etc. BA cannot, and will not continue to subsidise you overpaid and inefficient pilots.

Get real. This is the real world. BA's share price is unrealistic.

Everything they touch turns to a can of worms.

Their pension fund is technically bankrupt, being funded by the people who are going to get less than half of all the jam stealers who are getting in excess of 80k at the moment.

They don't have two halfpennies to rub together.

IMHO, 1% is too much!

Welcome to the real world
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 05:41
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Jim Kirk,

Let me see:

1: you applied to BA and you did not get through the tests.

or

2: You are not a pilot.

or

3: it is a wind up.

or

4: you are really that stupid.

Pick one.


Best regards
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 05:59
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Many worthwhile comments here. Bare in mind though there are other staff within BA and the possible dispute at present has more to do with them at this time as they are the group who are most dissatisfied. BA pilots have to my knowledge made no comments at this time nor have the TGWU (ground staff) and the 'Mail' on Sunday article is unfounded and rumour with little foundation at this stage.
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 06:29
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Whoop Whoop, you may wish to subscribe to the BA section on prune or if you are a BALPA member the forum on there.

Then managment stoges like Kirk and HZ123 won't be able to make crass comments for everyone to see
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 08:55
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Jim Kirk:

You have issues that need dealing with.

Counselling

L337
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 09:26
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No one will accept a pay rise below R.P.I.
How about a big fat zero for me this year ?

.........no one will pay more into the pension scheme to pay for the inadequate company contributions during the Failing Ayling reign.
This would be a Final Salary scheme, which for many is protected from inflation. My outfit will probably close ours when they've dug it out of debt (thereby legally permitting closure). Waste of space anyway, with no inflation protection.


Once again we see a demonstration of the State Owned mentality which still permeates BA, despite the fact that the botomless taxpayer-fed pot was withdrawn years ago.

Get real.

Or go bust.

I don't care which.

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Old 15th Mar 2004, 09:26
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I simply can't believe that in today's world you can read comments from mature people "demanding" pay rises and refusing to face up to the reality of the pensions situation.

You must be living in some sort of dream world! Or are you assuming that you have some sort of god-given right to pay rises that couldn't possibly be justified by anyone with an ounce of business sense!

And, no, I'm not in management.....just using common sense.
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 09:44
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L337
Whatever happened to the good old British Stiff Upper Lip?
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 09:45
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Jordan

Couldn't agree more. It's a cut off your nose to spite your face scenario. We all know that there are truckloads of employees in BA who are surplus to requirements, many at home on full pay, but nothing can be done because of the threat of strike action.

BA is very nearly in deep trouble, financially. How sad that there is talk of a strike at Easter, just when the Company could hope to make some money to keep everyone in a job.

All efforts should be made to keep the final salary scheme, even if it does mean a zero pay rise in effect. Rather that than have your pension drop to a third, which has happened when such schemes closed elsewhere.

Happy flying!
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 10:04
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Heard a great comment about BA pilots from a Lufthansa crew. Because we work so much harder than our German friends they call us "the Asians of Europe" as in "your shop is always open!"

Nice to see a bit of German humour...........
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 10:26
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The best you will get pilots to agree, is a pay rise of least R.P.I. and a change in the pension calculator with a raise in the retirement age to the industry average to enable the Aeroplane Drivers to get a decent pension when they finish, and still reduce the pension hole. (1 billion no less!!).
I suggest you take a look at the details squire. BA pilots get THE best pension deal. The accrual rate is better than ground staff and the contributions (when compared to returns) are too low to meet the demands of the scheme.
I will swap yours for mine any day.
I am not knocking you but please pull your head out of the sand. Everyone in the airline is being offered the same pay rise and the same reduction in pension. You are not unique except in that you already have a very good scheme which betters any other department within the company.
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 10:49
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I'm not a BA pilot, but I have to say I suspect a lot of the anti BA Pilot comments on this (and many other similiar threads) are indeed inspired by the Green Eyed Monster.

You guys who are telling the BA pilots to 'wise up' because you got a 'big fat zero' pay rise....maybe its YOU who need to wise up.

This profession has been slowly dragged down over the years by the readiness of some at the lower end of the pay spectrum to envy and undermine those at the other end.

Instead of knocking them...why don't you try JOINING them.
You will not improve your own weak situation one iota by dragging down those who fight to set the highest possible industry benchmark.
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 12:09
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Turin, As I understand it, BA pilots get exactly the same benefits as everybody else. Our "pension calculator" is different to everyone elses to factor in the fact that we retire at 55 and not 65. The only reason we do ok is that our salary tends to be higher than most other workers in the airline (when we retire). Im sure you are aware that a lot of ground staff (ie dispatchers), cabin crew (LH) and management types "take home" far more than I do. Why do you think so many of us live abroad?
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 13:32
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Dear maxy101,

My heart bleeds.



Dissatisfied with your 'measly' income ? Then why not blame those who, overwhelmingly, accepted the new wage structure.

Cabin crew making more than you, you poor, poor, benchmarked P2 ? Why not apply for a job as cabin crew then ?



p.s.: I think your cabin crew colleagues would be delighted to get 'the market rate' as per your suggestion. EZ are advertising a basic of 24 k p.a. Now, that's just a tad more than a B.A. new entrant on 10 k p.a. ...

Last edited by flyingdutchman; 15th Mar 2004 at 13:56.
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 13:35
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Cool

Gents.

Gotta say that I work for BA and am not a pilot. We have had the guts ripped out of our allowances over the last 2. Our department, Line Maintenance, has been cut from 130 engineers 5 years ago to 55 now.

I would happily take no pay rise this year to have a job 3 years down the road. Also would pay more pension to be able to retire with one!

Its no use going on about Bob A. You cant change the past. Lets think about the future and get on with it despite the cr@p management we all have.

Love

PLM
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Old 15th Mar 2004, 14:16
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Green eyed monsters indeed Idunno.

I still can't see whatever explanation there is for people slagging off BA. Yes, people vote with their feet, but that is a difficult decision to make . Posting inflammatory comments on here does nothing to further the discussion so please refrain.

As the market leader (?) in the UK surely all the other airlines should be looking to BA to set the tone, not simply roll over and accept the management bullsh!t, and believe me, it is bullsh!t. all I can think is that most of these posts are not from professional pilots at all, but wannabes who have no idea about the real world of aviation.

FlyingDutchman,
I have no info on EZY payscales, but do you think that BA new entrants only take home 10k pa? And do you think that EZY crew take home any more than 24k pa? My missus is a long haul hostie for BA and she takes home just over 2000/month, after all deductions. I reckon that makes her take home around 40k per year. And I should know because we've got a mrtgage together. She's on the 'new' payscales. Not only does she earn that amojunt of money, but on a recent return flight from Boston, 5h40 flight, she had nearly 2 hours in the bunk. Now that's the kind of work I like doing for that money, whilst the 2 guys at the front sat there all night with no rest. And then had to go and drop the crew that were on a back to back off at the hotel before being allowed to go to their cars and start the journey home.

There are many areas within BA that are WAY over benchmark whilst we pilots are endlessly at the front of the queue when concessions are to be made. That will not be the case any more. All we need is to work to rule instead of bending over backwards to help out and the comapny will very quickly realise where the deadwood is.

I personally refuse to take any further reduction in my terms and conditions until the MT section is taken to account and the true extent of its 'Spanish Practices' are shown. And you can add getting rid of CSD's to that list as well.
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